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Not big on people messing with vulnerables. Read circumcision thread for reference. Kids are hella disenfranchised and people continue to do whatever they want to them. When MLYLT's BS veered into child abuse/neglect territory she deserved to get yelled at. Mad empathy.

Realistically the worst case scenario is us "unfairly" punishing ~20 pretty people for stat raping teenagers? Boo hoo? There's billions of people around to bang... you're not trying save the innocent from some tyrannical state. These discussions always get disguised as some obtuse thought experiment but they're really just a vessel for hacks to work on their material.

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03-23-2017 , 04:59 PM

#102

krunic

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Some studies show that if the relationship was not forced and the female adult was not a relative, a majority of males viewed these relationships as positive (Condy et al., 1987; Okami, 1991), about a third viewed them as neutral (Fromuth & Burkhart, 1987; Okami, 1991), and a minority (< 5%) viewed them as negative (Fromuth & Burkhart, 1987).

I think our culture definitely has an impact on how men and women would define similar sexual experiences. Men are not supposed to think that having sex with a woman is ever bad, almost completely regardless of the circumstances. Imagine that you were 14 and told all your male friends that you had sex with a hot teacher and you felt manipulated and abused and wished it never happened. How do you think they'd react? There's no ****ing way you'd admit that. You're supposed to say it was awesome and high five and whatever.

My mother was sexually exploitative/abusive with me from age 5-14, and I never realized it until age 31. Children are taught that sexual predators are men who touch you or put their penis in you. If something happens that doesn't fit into that narrative, it just doesn't make sense and we come up with rationalizations to make it seem like there wasn't anything weird or unhealthy about it.

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03-23-2017 , 05:02 PM

#103

DoctorZangief

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Nonetheless, they had slightly elevated levels of psychological distress: they had slightly more psychological, alcohol, and deliberate self-harming behavior problems than men without such experiences [though this could just mean boys with these characteristics are more likely to be victims of predatory adult females vs a consequence of the relationship]

So either:

1. Teenage boys get a >0% increase in problems from these experiences; or
2. The teenage boys already have these problematic predilections/tendencies and mentally ill abusers can smell it on them and are happy to selfishly oblige/solidify/reaffirm these characteristics because it gets them off. Teenagers then spend a lifetime trying to unpack these neural pathways lest they perpetuate a cycle of abuse.

So we agree it's a non-starter, then, right?

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03-23-2017 , 05:03 PM

#104

Didace

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Originally Posted by krunic

My mother was sexually exploitative/abusive with me from age 5-14, ...

Not exactly what is being talked about here, is it?

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03-23-2017 , 05:08 PM

#105

krunic

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Originally Posted by Didace

Not exactly what is being talked about here, is it?

I was making a point about how children are taught to think of sexual predators and sexually unhealthy situations, which is relevant to what's being talked about.

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03-23-2017 , 05:10 PM

#106

gregorio

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Originally Posted by DoctorZangief

We agree that what is a non-starter?

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03-23-2017 , 05:15 PM

#107

krunic

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gregorio,

Do you have data on adult female + teen male relationships causing more/less psychological harm than adult male + teen female relationships?

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03-23-2017 , 05:21 PM

#108

Rapini

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Originally Posted by DoctorZangief

Nope. Assuming the study was well-designed and can be accepted as fact, less than 5% of boys saw the experience as negative.

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03-23-2017 , 05:30 PM

#109

cs3

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Jesus Christ would you clowns quit custerflucking this thread and stick to pics of hot teachers that none of us were lucky enough to bang?

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03-23-2017 , 05:34 PM

#110

Rei Ayanami

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Mary Kay Letourneau > every other teacher posted in this thread

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03-23-2017 , 05:45 PM

#111

Tom Ames

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Originally Posted by Rapini

Nope. Assuming the study was well-designed and can be accepted as fact, less than 5% of boys saw the experience as negative.

I haven't read the study (and won't), but it is certainly based on interviews and/or self-report questionnaires from events that happened years earlier. There is absolutely no way to accept conclusions as "fact." They are only opinions based on (always questionable) self-report data.

Well, "facts" have changed recently, so ...

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03-23-2017 , 05:57 PM

#112

gregorio

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Originally Posted by krunic

gregorio,

Do you have data on adult female + teen male relationships causing more/less psychological harm than adult male + teen female relationships?

The only data I have is from the article I linked that reviews the lit on both of these types of relationships but does not compare them side-by-side. http://unh.edu/ccrc/pdf/CV150.pdf

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03-23-2017 , 06:30 PM

#113

gregorio

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Originally Posted by Tom Ames

From the < 5% saw it as negative study

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Each student was asked to complete a research survey instrument that included a childhood sexual victimization survey as well as various measures of sexual and emotional adjustment. For the purposes of this study, only the responses to the childhood sexual victimization survey were analyzed. The survey was a modification of the one developed by Finkelhor (1979) and contained items related to the description of the abuse (ages of the participants, activity involved, relationships of the offender to the subject, duration of the abuse, etc.), as well as items related to the male subjects' emotional reaction to the abuse at the time of the victimization and currently. The basic design of the research instrument was a funnel-type response protocol that required the subjects to first respond to a broad question and then branch into a more detailed evaluation of their experiences. Thus, if subjects responded yes to the broad question, they were asked to follow up by answering several more specific questions about particular experiences.

Results (Krunic, this addresses your question)

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Gender differences in kinds of experiences. In addition to the sex of perpetrator difference [female perpetrators more common with boys; male perps with girls], there were other sex differences suggested in the current study. In the current study, the men reported more extensive involvement than typically reported by college women. For example, 26% of the Southeastern sample and 33% of the Midwestern sample reported experiences involving oral-genital contact. Additionally, 19% of the relationships reported by the Southeastern sample involved intercourse, while 29% of the relationships reported by the Midwestern sample involved intercourse.

These are much higher percentages than typically obtained in studies with college women. For example, in the Finkelhor study (1979), only 4% of the experiences involved intercourse, in the Fromuth and Burkhart study (in press), 1%, in the Seidner and Calhoun study (1984), 19%. Further, despite the more extensive sexual involvement, men in the current study reported fewer incidents of force or threat being involved in their experiences than typically reported in female samples. Respectively, 10% and 17% of the experiences reported by the Midwestern and Southeastern sampled involved force or threat.

In contrast, in the Fromuth and Burkhart study (in press), 50% of the experiences were described by the women as involving force or threat. Seidner and Calhoun (1984) also reported men as being less likely to report being threatened or induced (18%) than women (35%). However, Fin kelhor (1981) found that both men and women were equally likely (55%) to report being physically forced to participate.

Emotional perception of experiences. Another striking sex difference was in the perception of the experience. Men in this study did not perceive the experience to be as pathogenic as women often perceive their childhood sexual experiences to be. As can be seen in Table 3, when Definition 3 is used, the men in the present study reported reacting with a great deal more interest and pleasure than they did with fear and shock.

Similarly, using Definition 3 and collapsing across both samples, 53% of the experiences were reported to have been viewed positively at the time of the experience, 30% neutrally, and 18% negatively. Additionally, again collapsing across both samples, 39% of the experiences were retrospectively viewed as having had a positive effect on the subjects' lives, 46% a neutral effect, and only 15% a negative effect.

Fromuth and Burkhart (in press), using a definition similar to Definitions 3 and 41 and using a Southeastern sample, found that the experiences elicited a much different emotional response in college women. Women generally remembered the experiences as evoking fear or shock rather than pleasure or interest. Specifically, 60% reported experiencing fear or shock, 12% reported surprise, and 29% reported experiencing interest or pleasure. Only 11% of the experiences were viewed positively, 30% neutrally, and 59% negatively. Clearly, the majority of these experiences were perceived by the women as negative.

The finding that men retrospectively describe their experience less negatively than women is consistent with findings of other researchers. Finkelhor (1979, p. 70), describing his college sample, noted that "boys report feeling more interest and pleasure at the time and girls remember more fear and shock." Additionally, in the Finkelhor study, females rated 66% of their experiences as negative, compared to only 38% of the males.

Likewise, Fritz et al. (1981) and Landis (1956) also found that men perceived the experiences less negatively and reported being less psychologically damaged by their experiences. Thus, although men are involved in more extensive contact, the data across a number of previous studies as well as the present one suggest that men view the experience less negatively than women and describe it as having a less negative impact on their subsequent adjustment. In part, this sex difference might be attributable to differences in the nature of abuse. For ex- ample, in the college samples, women typically report more use of force and threat and fewer self-initiated experiences than do men.

Summary

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One of the interesting conceptual issues that emerged in the current study concerned sex differences in child sexual abuse. Overly simplified, perhaps, but descriptive, the results can be summarized as follows: When women are asked about nonpeer childhood sexual experiences, they are likely to report events within an abusive context and with negative effects. Men, however, unless instructed to report only abusive events, will report a wider range of experiences involving more cross-gender experiences, many of which are perceived as nonabusive. Even when experiences are restricted to events occurring before age 13, the majority are not viewed negatively. Thus, whereas women report age-discrepant childhood sexual experiences as almost inevitably negative, men do not. Indeed, perhaps as suggested by Fritz et al. (1981), men tend to perceive such experiences as sexual initiation, while women tend to perceive such experiences as sexual violation.

Male sexual socialization encourages men to define sexual experiences as desirable as long as there is no homosexual involvement. Thus, perhaps it is not surprising that the men retrospectively report experiences with older females as relatively nonexploitative and without negative effects. Nonetheless, it is not clear whether the psychological impact of these experiences is benign. The anxiety for a child involved in sexual contact with an adult, which is readily acknowledged by women, is likely to be present with men as well. Male denial of this would not preclude it from having an impact on their subsequent sexual or emotional development. To explore this, the relationship between early nonpeer sexual contact and subsequent sexual and emotional adjustment needs to be examined. Until the empirical correlates of early, nonpeer male sexual experiences are determined, we recommend that researchers continue to use broad funnel procedures to define male samples. Otherwise, we will be unable to determine the more subtle correlates of such experiences in the lives of men.

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03-23-2017 , 06:54 PM

#114

gregorio

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Pamela Rogers Turner is an American former elementary school physical education teacher and coach who taught in McMinnville, Tennessee. When she was 27, she had a sexual relationship with a 13-year-old boy who was one of her students in Centertown Elementary School. She got 9 months in jail plus seven years probation. Once she got, she was arrested again for sending text messages, nude photos, and sex videos of herself to the same boy, and got sent back to jail for the 7 years plus two additional years for the nude pics/videos.

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03-23-2017 , 06:56 PM

#115

Didace

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That's dedication!

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03-23-2017 , 07:19 PM

#116

LFS

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OK 13 is completely messed up.

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03-23-2017 , 07:20 PM

#117

gregorio

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'I'm the victim': Former teacher, 24, who slept hundreds of times with 17-year-old student claims he ruined her life after sharing her naked selfies with friends and she was forced to become a STRIPPER

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The sultry 24-year-old brunette told Dr Phil McGraw that the boy had seduced her with fawning love notes written on Post-Its and twisted her brain into accepting their forbidden love affair, until she became convinced that the pair were in a real relationship, which she could keep a secret.

'He did so with such intelligence and such an elevated vocabulary that i was completely duped by the whole facade,' Haglin said.

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03-23-2017 , 07:27 PM

#118

El Diablo

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Greg,

Dude really was quite the Casanova!

‘I love the way you smell like pizza. It drives me crazy wanting a piece of the crust.’

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03-23-2017 , 07:32 PM

#119

Rexx14

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Originally Posted by El Diablo

Greg,

Dude really was quite the Casanova!

‘I love the way you smell like pizza. It drives me crazy wanting a piece of the crust.’

That was pretty funny.
See some of the comments below though.

"Seems like a good rule might be to not let female early to mid 20 year olds be the teachers of teenage boys."

I mean seriously, what a moronic statement.

Definitely agree 13 is very different to 17.

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03-23-2017 , 07:53 PM

#120

anonla

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I think one of the problems is, that the teacher should be some kind of authority. It is difficult enough to be authority for a 17 y.o. male in the best of circumstances, and it is completely impossible, if this boy fks you.

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03-23-2017 , 07:59 PM

#121

DoctorZangief

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Originally Posted by Rapini

Nope. Assuming the study was well-designed and can be accepted as fact, less than 5% of boys saw the experience as negative.

Did you miss the part where their perception did not match up with their troubled reality?

And what percentage of raped children self-reporting PTS do you find palatable? Would love to hear the acceptable ratio permitted to keep your penthouse letter fantasies intact.

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03-23-2017 , 08:00 PM

#122

whatthejish

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There is no incentive to be a public school teacher in the US. People are somehow surprised when crazies take the job.

Edit: Also, I see a lot of these cases reporting "substitute teacher." There is no training whatsoever for a substitute teacher, most of the time it just requires a bachelor's degree and a background check.

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03-23-2017 , 08:35 PM

#123

adsman

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Maybe we can convince MMbt0ne to organise Ms OOT hawt teacher who bangs her student award.

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03-23-2017 , 08:40 PM

#124

El Diablo

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Zang,

There have been cases where a 17yo HS senior football player talks to his buddies about trying to bang some 20-something teacher and then starts flirting with her and tries to make it happen. In that scenario, if the teacher ends up banging the student, do you still believe he's a victim and likely to face the kind of emotional problems you've described that are common in rape victims?