The Misses and I go to purchase a house in Nor Cal. The asking price is $249,900 and we offer $250,000. The first round of conditions come around and it states there is a Solar Array on the roof and we need to take over the lease, and we sign it.Shortly comes a second round of conditions and it states the Solar is a purchase and we need to take over the financing the original owner has in place.

When my wife contacts Tesla ( yes the company that installed this is Tesla ) the gentleman says " Oh so you are going to take over this contract , how wonderful."He then goes on to explain that there is $41,600 left on the 30 year loan that this idiot got on his array. He explains that it was purchased 3 years earlier for $45,000 and this was the remainder on his 30 year loan. He went on to explain that the PG&E bill averaged only $180 per month with the array working.

Needless to say we balked and contacted the Realtor immediately. The offer from the current owner was if they removed the array, we could still have the house for $250K. We told them just forget we ever made an offer.

My question to some of you that are familiar with solar. Is this a realistic price for a Solar Array on your roof? Also, where does the savings come in?

It seems like I would be long dead before this ever amortized out

The biggest variable is how big the system is. (Kilowatts)

Three years ago $45k would have bought a very large system which would have produced more energy than most people would use. I don't know how the financing is affecting the number. Tesla (SolarCity at the time) wasn't giving the best deals around and their lease/financing may suck, but afaik they never just totally ripped people off on price.

Your savings is the cost of your electric bill vs the cost of your Solar bill. So the elctric bill was $180 with the Solar panels installed or before they were installed?

A customer 3 years ago I believe bought their solar unit for like $50-$60k but I would think it was more, it was a big house. He said their electric bill in the summer was $500-$700 a month before Solar and now it was like $10.

So if you took a 30 year loan on the 50k/60k unit that would be 250-300 bucks a month *(depending on rate). If it went from 500-700 to 10 it looks like it would be worth it--not sure what the winter/fall utility costs are but I'll assume they're less. I think the justification for buying solar goes two fold. It is break even or better compared to the alternative? Similarly, how much value do you get from saving the planet and what's that's worth to the owner.

Are there any maintenance costs involved? How long do they typically last? Do you have to buy insurance for them?

In CA a 10 year complete warranty is required including labor. Pretty much all solar panels have a 25 year warranty. Many inverters have 10 year warranties, some have 12, 20 or 25. Decent crystaline solar panels (most of them) will generally last the rest of your life.

Most people don't clean them, or pay to have the panels cleaned, but some people occasionally do. A string inverter is likely to need replacing at some point and will cost something if it happens if it happens after the warranty.

Before that customer I always thought Solar was a scam until he told me how much he was saving, not sure what the maintenance cost was. I think he bought the Solar outright and they were big into helping the planet.

Solar has to make it worth the consumers while and not just $20 a month better if there are upkeep costs, but it seems most home buyers and sellers get hung up on the Solar panels already on the roof. That could also be if the Solar was older than the newer products and not as efficient or real expensive loans.

since we are discussing solar, it's been on my mind: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2018/...ey+Mustache%29

i don't have carpentry skills. My grandfather did, i worked three summers for him but I never read a blueprint or laid the dynamics for a wall, I just built them. I want to finish my basement and am trying to get determind to do so. I could find assitance, my wife's uncle, or perhaps her dad could help, maybe even my grandfather. But I probably don't need them if I watch youtube videos and get a blueprint(i would think). I have attached some pics of my basement. Can someone give me a small, starter gameplan? I have to think I need to start by drawing up a plan, correct? Where the walls will go, perhaps a bar. Think about how I want it arranged. Can i then get a basic blueprint done online?

walking into the basement looking east:
looking northeast:
southeast corner looking northwest/north:
northeast corner facing west:

Looks like a very basic job. I wouldn't blueprint it. Any walls you build don't need to be load bearing, so just slap up a 2x4 frame with standard joists, stick insulation in there for sound baffling if you want, and then a ****ton of drywall.

Drywalling a ceiling is a huge PITA, so I'd pay someone who hangs sheet on the regular some extra cash to do that.

I'd leave that mechanicals roomlet unfinished, if I were you. Just hang a door in that cement block doorway.

Yeah, I'm not sure why you'd need formal building plans unless you need to pull a permit, and I don't see anything there you'd need to pull a permit for.

Are you just struggling to arrange the space mentally? That's pretty common, and if you're really bad at it there isn't much you can do except hand the task off to somebody else.

I'm pretty annoyed with whoever ran the wiring in the basement. That is lazy, ****ty work.

Don't take the lazy way out and put a drop ceiling frame with acoustic tiles in there. I'm home shopping right now and have seen a bunch of that. It looks really cheap when it's in a home, instead of like 12 feet up in a commercial building.

Agree on the wiring. Pretty lame.

If it were me I wouldn’t put any ceiling in. Just label stuff and paint it all black. You never know when you will want to run water/electric/gas somewhere else in the house.

Considering buying a home built in the 50s that was last remodeled in the 70s I know I shouldn't do it, as I will only live there for three years, and I'll be in grad school, so the last thing I need is a giant project, but the price, size, location, and bones of the house are all so good that it's still tempting.

Also IRT Hoagie's post, in most jurisdictions you can't count it as part of the finished square footage if you leave exposed mechanicals. Drywall that puppy and you've suddenly got 800 more square feet when you sell.

Basements don’t count as square footage.

I really appreciate the info guys. I didn't think it would be that complicated. Basically, I just have to decide where I want walls and then do it, right? I will have to research a bit.

why is the wiring so bad?

I think my wife, her dad, and I discussed a drop ceiling. Maybe I will forego that because of the recommendation. It does take away a lot of height to, right? Paint it black, damn man, I don't know, that's some Led Zeppelin **** but I don't like the sound of it taking place of my ceiling.

I'm thinking when I was a kid my basement walls were concrete. Thoughts there? My basement would probably look a lot nicer and I would probably be more satisfied running walls parallel with the concrete, right? that is pretty standard?

if you guys had to name some quick do's and do not's what would they be?

zik, I'm just struggling to get started lol. I have never done a project of that scale. I edge my lawn and I can follow manuals to put kids swingsets and kitchen sets together.

Depends. In my area sqft is listed as Total Finished and Above Grade.

The wife wants to start putting things up on the walls in our new place that we’ve had for a couple of months now. This is going to sound really, really stupid I’m sure, but what’s the best way to hang things on drywall? I really don’t want to screw this up.

We’re talking pictures and such, I believe. Maybe a small shelf above the desk for pictures/small items/etc. Nothing super heavy.

Yeah, pretty much.

It's drooping, loose, and barely stapled anywhere.Electrical code stipulates that NM wiring (what you have) needs to be "run either through bored holes in joists or on running boards", per NEC 334.15(C). Whoever did yours almost certainly wasn't a licensed electrician and either didn't know or didn't care to do it correctly. Even If you don't care about any of that, it's still below the joists, so if you do put in a ceiling you're going to have to move it all anyway. The runs I can see in the walls are also bad.

Yes, that's going to look more finished. You can also attach studs to the concrete instead of building a wall, or even glue gyp board directly to the concrete if it's flat enough. Although that will give you less room if you're planning on insulating.

It's a basement. Just go for it and don't sweat the details too much. You're going to make mistakes and wish you had done things differently no matter what. But try to do a better job than whoever ran the wiring.

This. As a military guy, I move a ton, and I will tell you that almost everywhere I've gone finished basements are counted in the Total Finished, and in about 35% of them they are required to separate out Above and Below Grade in the listing. I've heard of, but have yet to encounter, places that don't allow them to count as square footage unless they're walk out. I've not heard of any jurisdictions that don't allow them to count at all, though I could believe that they exist.

Another trick is to attach "mini-studs" to the concrete, and then hang the drywall on those. I've seen 2x2s, but as long as it's deep enough for your drywall screws, you're fine. It's basically the same concept as above, but you lose less of your space. It leaves you without enough room for insulation to speak of, but it's enough room for wires and it keeps the drywall off the concrete in case the concrete gets condensation.

Make sure you check that your concrete walls are flat and level before you sheet over them, and use a header and footer to get yourself to level if not.

A drop ceiling doesn't have to drop very far, but the acoustic tile look is just very 70s, imo, unless you buy the fancy tiles at $15 each, but that adds up really quickly. Do some google image searches or look on zillow, and I think you'll agree that the standard ceiling tiles make your basement look like a cheap office.

Sweet, thank you very much!

https://www.lowes.com/pd/E-Z-Ancor-4...RoCco8QAvD_BwE

The better drywall anchors that screw in like that are metal instead of plastic.

For hanging typical framed pictures and artwork type stuff, drywall anchors probably aren't needed. A nail or two will work fine, they can probably support up to maybe 5 pounds. I believe that drywall anchors are for when you're supporting a more significant weight.