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Old 02-07-2019, 08:06 PM   #201
cs3
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re: ****FebarewouldyouspankMsOOT? February LC thread****

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Originally Posted by cassette View Post
You should be ashamed of this post.

A parent's role is to be a model for how to exist in the world. You have taught your daughters that love and violence go together. She know doubt forgot your reprimand from 3 months (!) earlier before your struck her. I hope she forgets this lesson as well before finding someone to spend her life with.
LOL gtfo
This post is the worst post in this entire thread, and we had a week long discussion on not wearing ****ing seatbelts!

Last edited by cs3; 02-07-2019 at 08:07 PM. Reason: Pretty stoked this ended up at the top of a new page so everyone will see that stupid take for the next few days
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:08 PM   #202
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re: ****FebarewouldyouspankMsOOT? February LC thread****

Glad to be across the aisle from cs3 in any debate.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:12 PM   #203
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re: ****FebarewouldyouspankMsOOT? February LC thread****

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I just think itís a weird position that in our society it is illegal in nearly all scenarios to strike another human being, unless it is a child, which are the most vulnerable and most unable to understand why they are being hit.

I donít think thereís any study you could conjure that could convince me that this isnít an absurdly weird and spartan take to have on society.

Itís also a completely idiotic logical fallacy to conclude that if a child is misbehaving, it must be because they were not being struck enough/at all.

I am dead sure that my daughter knew precisely why she was being hit even as it happened, although I do not think she took my prior threat to spank her seriously until I actually did so. And I do not think she was misbehaving because she had not heretofore been spanked. Rather, she had a childish impulse to bite and did not understand that the costs of biting were less than the benefits until I spanked her.

So I do not think I was making the fallacy you suggest. FYI, I would not have spanked her without a prior fair warning with respect to the precise conduct at issue.

FYI, maybe a year after that, my younger daughter was writing on the wall of our stairway with a pencil. I told her ďNot acceptable. If I find you doing that again, I will spank you. Do you understand?Ē She was aware that her big sister had been spanked and she wanted no part of it. She said ďyes fatherĒ and did not repeat the conduct. I have no way to know, but I suspect that threatening her with a timeout would not have had the same effect.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:21 PM   #204
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re: ****FebarewouldyouspankMsOOT? February LC thread****

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I assume all you pro-hitters are olds? This is not a controversial topic among parents these days.

Admitting to spanking your kids is like admitting to smoking with them in the car. No, it's not like holding their hand on the stove, but it's a harm that you inflict out of selfishness. It gets the job done, the kid out of your hair, but there are other solutions that take more work.

I mean come on, Howard. You know that repeated spankings over time is a harm. You have no evidence either way about spanking occasionally. So based on the fact that your kids turned out OK, you conclude it's fine? You know this isn't good evidence.


Iím not making a broader claim about repeated spanking. I entirely believe that very occasional spanking in particular circumstances is entirely appropriate and depends on the nature of oneís child and the particular circumstances. And yes, my experiences are anecdotal and no more.

But you seem to have missed the point that there are analytic flaws on spanking studies that suggest to me they are not generally applicable and they are definitely not applicable to isolated spanking in circumstances such as those Iíve described. No control group, causation/correlation problems, etc. etc.

Amusingly, my daughter just called me to say hello and ask my advice on something and I asked her if she would spank her children if need be. Her answer: ďhell, yes.Ē Sheís not an old. And Iím quite sure all of my west LA progressive friends would have disagreed with me in 2003, but they were wrong then just like youíre wrong now. So no, I donít think my age has **** to do with this question.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:23 PM   #205
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re: ****FebarewouldyouspankMsOOT? February LC thread****

But they've read articles. They know what's best for your children, and future grandchildren, Howard.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:24 PM   #206
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re: ****FebarewouldyouspankMsOOT? February LC thread****

Howard, you and DI are massively brilliant and nobody with a brain doubts that you would know the precise angle and velocity to strike a child lovingly. I support your version of corporeal everything because you are a captain, not because it is virtuous.

Last edited by prisms; 02-07-2019 at 08:26 PM. Reason: surely i misused corporeal and am about to get lawyered
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:25 PM   #207
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re: ****FebarewouldyouspankMsOOT? February LC thread****

Are the anti spankers saying that never in this world has there ever been a situation where spanking might have been the best or equal to the best solution?
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:25 PM   #208
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re: ****FebarewouldyouspankMsOOT? February LC thread****

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Originally Posted by jmakin View Post
?

****load of "spare the rod, spoil the child" takes in here.

Also, it's not even a hot take to say that children don't completely understand why they're being struck. Especially a ****ing 3 year old.

Some do, some donít. Iíd say itís a hot take for cassette to say that about my daughter, when I know for a fact that she did. She was furious about the prior dessert and perfectly well remembered it. I am substantially certain that it was a combination of impulse and testing limits.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:27 PM   #209
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re: ****FebarewouldyouspankMsOOT? February LC thread****

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?

****load of "spare the rod, spoil the child" takes in here.

Also, it's not even a hot take to say that children don't completely understand why they're being struck. Especially a ****ing 3 year old.


In what world, exactly, do I base my actions on biblical guidance? Iím as militant of an atheist as you are and perhaps even slightly more so.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:31 PM   #210
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re: ****FebarewouldyouspankMsOOT? February LC thread****

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Originally Posted by Yakmelk View Post
Are the anti spankers saying that never in this world has there ever been a situation where spanking might have been the best or equal to the best solution?
Is there ever a reason to hit a three-year-old? I mean...sure maybe. I can't think of realistic one, but somewhere in the world at some time in history? Sure. What point do you think you're making?

Note that Howard has already slid from "last resort" to "Yeah, maybe a time-out would have been just as good but I didn't try! LOL!"
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:31 PM   #211
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re: ****FebarewouldyouspankMsOOT? February LC thread****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Treesong View Post

Amusingly, my daughter just called me to say hello and ask my advice on something and I asked her if she would spank her children if need be. Her answer: ďhell, yes.Ē Sheís not an old.
She just knows better than to disagree with you.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:39 PM   #212
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re: ****FebarewouldyouspankMsOOT? February LC thread****

Maybe she understood howard - but as an amusing anecdote that actually completely correlates with this discussion:

My dad had a softer touch on parenting than my mother (although he was prone to using spanking when we were like 12-15).

My youngest sister had a problem with biting. Like a really, really bad problem. She was 2, maybe 3. She would not stop doing it despite all reasoning, time out, taking away of privileges, etc.

So, he told her the next time she bit, she was going to have to bite a lemon. And every time after that, she'd have to bite a lemon again. He made this extremely clear to her.

Naturally, she bit again. So he got a very unripe lemon and made her bite it. She hated it and never did it again. Harmless punishment and it worked.

I just refuse to believe spanking is the only option in a last resort type of situation. I think it's the easiest/most expedient in a lot of cases but I will never believe it's good for the kid or isn't doing some kind of damage. Also note I am not trying to call you a bad parent or anything, don't confuse my argument with what a few others are saying. My position is simply that on average it does more harm than good, and research very much supports this, despite all the beautiful anecdotes being provided itt.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:42 PM   #213
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re: ****FebarewouldyouspankMsOOT? February LC thread****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Treesong View Post
Amusingly, my daughter just called me to say hello and ask my advice on something and I asked her if she would spank her children if need be. Her answer: ďhell, yes.Ē Sheís not an old. And Iím quite sure all of my west LA progressive friends would have disagreed with me in 2003, but they were wrong then just like youíre wrong now. So no, I donít think my age has **** to do with this question.
Is it surprising that someone who grew up under certain conditions, finds those conditions acceptable as an adult? That doesn't make those conditions the best way to raise a kid. imo
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:48 PM   #214
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re: ****FebarewouldyouspankMsOOT? February LC thread****

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmakin View Post
My youngest sister had a problem with biting. Like a really, really bad problem. She was 2, maybe 3. She would not stop doing it despite all reasoning, time out, taking away of privileges, etc.

So, he told her the next time she bit, she was going to have to bite a lemon. And every time after that, she'd have to bite a lemon again. He made this extremely clear to her.

Naturally, she bit again. So he got a very unripe lemon and made her bite it. She hated it and never did it again. Harmless punishment and it worked.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:48 PM   #215
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re: ****FebarewouldyouspankMsOOT? February LC thread****

Anti-spankers,
Please stop piling on Howard. Sam Harris says that Howard actually had no choice when he decided to spank his daughter(s)
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:49 PM   #216
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re: ****FebarewouldyouspankMsOOT? February LC thread****

.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:52 PM   #217
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re: ****FebarewouldyouspankMsOOT? February LC thread****

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Originally Posted by prisms View Post
Howard, you and DI are massively brilliant and nobody with a brain doubts that you would know the precise angle and velocity to strike a child lovingly. I support your version of corporeal everything because you are a captain, not because it is virtuous.
Tbf, I'm an idiot who used 'phase' instead of 'faze'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cassette View Post
Is there ever a reason to hit a three-year-old? I mean...sure maybe. I can't think of realistic one, but somewhere in the world at some time in history? Sure. What point do you think you're making?

Note that Howard has already slid from "last resort" to "Yeah, maybe a time-out would have been just as good but I didn't try! LOL!"
I'm the one who said "last resort," genius.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:54 PM   #218
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re: ****FebarewouldyouspankMsOOT? February LC thread****

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmakin View Post
Maybe she understood howard - but as an amusing anecdote that actually completely correlates with this discussion:

My dad had a softer touch on parenting than my mother (although he was prone to using spanking when we were like 12-15).

My youngest sister had a problem with biting. Like a really, really bad problem. She was 2, maybe 3. She would not stop doing it despite all reasoning, time out, taking away of privileges, etc.

So, he told her the next time she bit, she was going to have to bite a lemon. And every time after that, she'd have to bite a lemon again. He made this extremely clear to her.

Naturally, she bit again. So he got a very unripe lemon and made her bite it. She hated it and never did it again. Harmless punishment and it worked.

I just refuse to believe spanking is the only option in a last resort type of situation. I think it's the easiest/most expedient in a lot of cases but I will never believe it's good for the kid or isn't doing some kind of damage. Also note I am not trying to call you a bad parent or anything, don't confuse my argument with what a few others are saying. My position is simply that on average it does more harm than good, and research very much supports this, despite all the beautiful anecdotes being provided itt.
What about a child that would require sedation/restraint in a clinical situation?

I assume you'd just advocate offloading the parenting to the state/medical community?
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:57 PM   #219
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re: ****FebarewouldyouspankMsOOT? February LC thread****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock Landers View Post
Anti-spankers,
Please stop piling on Howard. Sam Harris says that Howard actually had no choice when he decided to spank his daughter(s)
Being an appropriate subject of blame is not dependent on metaphysical freedom. Sorry, Brock! Hit the books!
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:02 PM   #220
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re: ****FebarewouldyouspankMsOOT? February LC thread****

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What about a child that would require sedation/restraint in a clinical situation?

I assume you'd just advocate offloading the parenting to the state/medical community?
You think hitting the kid would resolve the problem? What happened to the why not just hit her rule in this forum?
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:02 PM   #221
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re: ****FebarewouldyouspankMsOOT? February LC thread****

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmakin View Post
Maybe she understood howard - but as an amusing anecdote that actually completely correlates with this discussion:

My dad had a softer touch on parenting than my mother (although he was prone to using spanking when we were like 12-15).

My youngest sister had a problem with biting. Like a really, really bad problem. She was 2, maybe 3. She would not stop doing it despite all reasoning, time out, taking away of privileges, etc.

So, he told her the next time she bit, she was going to have to bite a lemon. And every time after that, she'd have to bite a lemon again. He made this extremely clear to her.

Naturally, she bit again. So he got a very unripe lemon and made her bite it. She hated it and never did it again. Harmless punishment and it worked.

I just refuse to believe spanking is the only option in a last resort type of situation. I think it's the easiest/most expedient in a lot of cases but I will never believe it's good for the kid or isn't doing some kind of damage. Also note I am not trying to call you a bad parent or anything, don't confuse my argument with what a few others are saying. My position is simply that on average it does more harm than good, and research very much supports this, despite all the beautiful anecdotes being provided itt.

Interesting. Iím not sure what is right here. I wouldnít want to cause her to hate the taste of lemons forever, and Iím not sure this tactic is less abusive/traumatic than a spanking. But I might have tried it if Iíd thought of it and had access to a lemon, which I did not.
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:07 PM   #222
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re: ****FebarewouldyouspankMsOOT? February LC thread****

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What happened to the why not just hit her rule in this forum?
Or the don't take a crap on openly trans people rule?
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:08 PM   #223
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re: ****FebarewouldyouspankMsOOT? February LC thread****

4 out of 5 dentists agree that eroding your enamel with acid is bad for your dental health.
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:10 PM   #224
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re: ****FebarewouldyouspankMsOOT? February LC thread****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock Landers View Post
Anti-spankers,
Please stop piling on Howard. Sam Harris says that Howard actually had no choice when he decided to spank his daughter(s)
Sam Harris is a freak and a very weird dude.
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:10 PM   #225
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re: ****FebarewouldyouspankMsOOT? February LC thread****

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Or the don't take a crap on openly trans people rule?
I never read that rule, and I think I took a ban for that. I learned my lesson without somebody 40X my bodyweight striking me.
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