LOL gtfo
This post is the worst post in this entire thread, and we had a week long discussion on not wearing ****ing seatbelts!

Glad to be across the aisle from cs3 in any debate.

I am dead sure that my daughter knew precisely why she was being hit even as it happened, although I do not think she took my prior threat to spank her seriously until I actually did so. And I do not think she was misbehaving because she had not heretofore been spanked. Rather, she had a childish impulse to bite and did not understand that the costs of biting were less than the benefits until I spanked her.

So I do not think I was making the fallacy you suggest. FYI, I would not have spanked her without a prior fair warning with respect to the precise conduct at issue.

FYI, maybe a year after that, my younger daughter was writing on the wall of our stairway with a pencil. I told her “Not acceptable. If I find you doing that again, I will spank you. Do you understand?” She was aware that her big sister had been spanked and she wanted no part of it. She said “yes father” and did not repeat the conduct. I have no way to know, but I suspect that threatening her with a timeout would not have had the same effect.

I’m not making a broader claim about repeated spanking. I entirely believe that very occasional spanking in particular circumstances is entirely appropriate and depends on the nature of one’s child and the particular circumstances. And yes, my experiences are anecdotal and no more.

But you seem to have missed the point that there are analytic flaws on spanking studies that suggest to me they are not generally applicable and they are definitely not applicable to isolated spanking in circumstances such as those I’ve described. No control group, causation/correlation problems, etc. etc.

Amusingly, my daughter just called me to say hello and ask my advice on something and I asked her if she would spank her children if need be. Her answer: “hell, yes.” She’s not an old. And I’m quite sure all of my west LA progressive friends would have disagreed with me in 2003, but they were wrong then just like you’re wrong now. So no, I don’t think my age has **** to do with this question.

But they've read articles. They know what's best for your children, and future grandchildren, Howard.

Howard, you and DI are massively brilliant and nobody with a brain doubts that you would know the precise angle and velocity to strike a child lovingly. I support your version of corporeal everything because you are a captain, not because it is virtuous.

Are the anti spankers saying that never in this world has there ever been a situation where spanking might have been the best or equal to the best solution?

Some do, some don’t. I’d say it’s a hot take for cassette to say that about my daughter, when I know for a fact that she did. She was furious about the prior dessert and perfectly well remembered it. I am substantially certain that it was a combination of impulse and testing limits.

In what world, exactly, do I base my actions on biblical guidance? I’m as militant of an atheist as you are and perhaps even slightly more so.

Is there ever a reason to hit a three-year-old? I mean...sure maybe. I can't think of realistic one, but somewhere in the world at some time in history? Sure. What point do you think you're making?

Note that Howard has already slid from "last resort" to "Yeah, maybe a time-out would have been just as good but I didn't try! LOL!"

She just knows better than to disagree with you.

Maybe she understood howard - but as an amusing anecdote that actually completely correlates with this discussion:

My dad had a softer touch on parenting than my mother (although he was prone to using spanking when we were like 12-15).

My youngest sister had a problem with biting. Like a really, really bad problem. She was 2, maybe 3. She would not stop doing it despite all reasoning, time out, taking away of privileges, etc.

So, he told her the next time she bit, she was going to have to bite a lemon. And every time after that, she'd have to bite a lemon again. He made this extremely clear to her.

Naturally, she bit again. So he got a very unripe lemon and made her bite it. She hated it and never did it again. Harmless punishment and it worked.

I just refuse to believe spanking is the only option in a last resort type of situation. I think it's the easiest/most expedient in a lot of cases but I will never believe it's good for the kid or isn't doing some kind of damage. Also note I am not trying to call you a bad parent or anything, don't confuse my argument with what a few others are saying. My position is simply that on average it does more harm than good, and research very much supports this, despite all the beautiful anecdotes being provided itt.

Is it surprising that someone who grew up under certain conditions, finds those conditions acceptable as an adult? That doesn't make those conditions the best way to raise a kid. imo

Anti-spankers,
Please stop piling on Howard. Sam Harris says that Howard actually had no choice when he decided to spank his daughter(s)

.

Tbf, I'm an idiot who used 'phase' instead of 'faze'.

I'm the one who said "last resort," genius.

What about a child that would require sedation/restraint in a clinical situation?

I assume you'd just advocate offloading the parenting to the state/medical community?

Being an appropriate subject of blame is not dependent on metaphysical freedom. Sorry, Brock! Hit the books!

You think hitting the kid would resolve the problem? What happened to the why not just hit her rule in this forum?

Interesting. I’m not sure what is right here. I wouldn’t want to cause her to hate the taste of lemons forever, and I’m not sure this tactic is less abusive/traumatic than a spanking. But I might have tried it if I’d thought of it and had access to a lemon, which I did not.

Or the don't take a crap on openly trans people rule?

4 out of 5 dentists agree that eroding your enamel with acid is bad for your dental health.

Sam Harris is a freak and a very weird dude.

I never read that rule, and I think I took a ban for that. I learned my lesson without somebody 40X my bodyweight striking me.