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Old 05-21-2010, 09:04 AM   #101
superleeds
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

I'm not going to defend OP but $15K CC debt, $1,600 rent and double or triple what you pay for groceries in bum**** USA is not really that outrageous for anyone living in NYC. But yeah lol at the Olive Oil consumption.

Last edited by superleeds; 05-21-2010 at 09:04 AM. Reason: sp
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:05 AM   #102
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

OP would be making this same post even if he was making 80k right now.
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:05 AM   #103
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

15k in CC debt is ridiculous no matter where you live.
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:05 AM   #104
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Originally Posted by Alobar View Post
your problem is you are a moron not that you are poor
this. (@op: i live in manhattan, so i believe i know what i'm talking about.)
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:10 AM   #105
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by runLOLArun View Post
Too lazy to edit so hear ya go

Monthly
Fruit 15/wk 60
Stop shopping at whole foods. While this is hardly the worst of your problems, assuming you're listing the prices for 2 people instead of 1, you're each eating $2 of fruit a day? That's nuts. Also, to lead off, why is your gf not paying for anything? That's nuts too. But yeah, stop eating ****ing champagne mangos and eat some apples and oranges and bananas.
Veggies 20/wk 80
Veggies are usually cheaper by weight than fruit. I applaud you for eating healthy, but I'm pretty sure that for 20/wk you could buy about 15lbs of cauliflower from Whole Foods, for instance, which doesn't seem likely for what you're doing. Maybe you're buying insane prepackaged pre-washed baby spinach or something? If so, stop.
Meat 25/wk 100
Seafood 30/wk 120
So you're saying that you and your girlfriend eat *nice* meat every day. Yeah, that's not normal, especially for someone who is eating on a budget.
Eggs 4/wk 16
Your gf is eating $4 of eggs a week? Or you eat them for dinner? I'm so confused. You say you don't eat breakfast.
Coffee 10/month 10
Milk 3/wk 12
These might be the only things that make sense on your whole list.
Olive Oil 20/month 20
Lol wut? I buy really nice olive oil, cook pretty much every day and use an insane amount of olive oil and I go through like $5 of olive oil a month cooking for 2. Are you making confit every day with all the ****ing lamb you're buying or something?
Pasta 2/week 8
Bread 5/week 20
I was wrong, this could possibly make sense.
Beer 8/week 32
Wine 15/week 60
Liquor 50/month 50
So you're buying a decent 6pack, an OK bottle of wine, and 2 750s of Liquor every month? WTF. You guys have your nice gourmet meal then throw back 2 shots of jack every night?
Vitamins 30/month 30
Stop taking vitamins
Aspirin 6/month 6
Everyone's already loled about this but it's only $6 so I will let it drop
Detergent 15/month 15
WTF?
Dish soap 4/month 4
Overshoot IMO, but whatever it's $4
Body soap 3/month 3
Shampoo/Conditioner 20/month 20
wtf?
Toilet Paper 5/month 5
Paper Towels 5/month 5
Light Bulbs 3/month 3
wtf?
Batteries 5/month 5
wtf?
Toothpaste 6/month 6
Mouthwash 12/month 12
dude maybe you should see a doctor about the halitosis.
Deodarant 6/month 6
wtf?
Razor Blades 6/month 6
Shaving Cream 3/month 3
Cologne $70 (35/month) 35
I, and everyone else, I'm assuming, appreciate the "I don't indulge in anything" but I also "buy a new cologne every couple months for variety." Grow the **** up.
Hair Gel 6/month 6

Now you see why its 800 a month!
Your problems are twofold:

1) You spend like a ****ing moron.
2) You spend like a ****ing moron for 2 people on one person's modest salary.

You need to fix one or the other or both of these things. You can't be feeding your girlfriend *and* feeding her foie gras. It's good that you have worked out the cc thing.
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:12 AM   #106
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

When I finished grad school a while back I had an offer for $140K in NYC and an offer for $100K in Dallas/Ft. Worth. There were other family reasons that contributed to us taking the DFW job, and in retrospect it was definately the right financial decision.

We live in a very normal pedestrian 2000 sqf house, my wife stays home with my 2 kids, we give 10% and save 20%, drive very average cars, and have enough leftover for some fun splurges and trips here and there. If I lost my job tomorrow, we could very easily cut down to needing only around $40K a year in the short term, because we have no debt, and our only fixed expense is a reasonable mortgage.

I cannot advocate enough for people to avoid "living up to their income". Instead do everything you can to get debt free, and work to keep your ongoing expenses as a very reasonable % of your income. Feel completely free to spend some of this excess periodically on fun stuff if you want. But ultimately doing this you know that if your situation changes tomorrow you are free to change with it. This type of financial freedom far exceeds any short term pleasure from having a slightly larger house, or slightly fancier car, etc...
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:15 AM   #107
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Originally Posted by Neko View Post
15k in CC debt is ridiculous no matter where you live.
I understand it's a bad idea but it's no fun having no furniture etc either for a year or two until you've saved for it. Don't know if this is the main reason for OP's debt (and reading the thread i kinda doubt that's most of it) but in practice running up $15K in NYC (or SF or LA or ....) is not that hard.
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:20 AM   #108
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Yeah, I also have around $15k in credit card debt, and most of it came from furnishing my apartment 3 years ago when I was making 1/3 of what I do now.
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:22 AM   #109
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

grunch: your bonus was only 65k?

that's rough
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:26 AM   #110
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Dude, you have to make the gf start chipping in. If you have been dating her any amount of time, it's ridiculous for you to still be covering everything.

I moved in with my gf and we split everything. Some of her friends gave her ****. "OMG my bf pays for everything". Eventually her friends relationships became serious, boom, they are also splitting everything.

When they were bothering her about me not paying for everything, she knew it was right to split everything, it was just annoying to hear about. Like I told her, babe, if you want me to pay for everything, no problem I will. We will be having pb&j for dinner and going out once a month.

Right now, my gf writes me a check for mortgage at end of month, and adds on anywhere from $200-$400 for other expenses. If you gf was giving you an extra couple hundo a month, it would make a huge difference

Seriously. Get her paying some stuff.
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:28 AM   #111
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

OP you live in NYC and you are trying to have 2 people live off a salary most people in NYC would struggle to live with especially in Manhattan. I'd get rid of your cheap ass non-salaried GF and move to a part of the country where 65k will get you somewhere. IN NYC 65k is probablly the equivalent of 25-30k or lower in other parts of the country. What do you do for 65k in NYC? My cousin lives in NYC is makes like 40k a year but lives pay check to pay check and in the smallest apartment possible in Manhattan and does nothing luxurious and i doubt spends a 100-200 on groceries a month.

My guess would be move to an outlying borough. Get rid of your car IN NYC it's dumb. Pay off your debt. And start living at your means not spending a ton of money in frivalous bull **** especially when you are feeidng for 2 on a measley salary.

My Ivy League buddies in NYC make 3 times what you make (atleast) and still live pretty meagerly in the city. In Memphis where I live 65k, you would be able to afford a 250k house which would be 2500+ square feet. In NYC it means you can afford a 400-500 sq foot apartment in a ****ty part of manhattan and live meagerly.
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:31 AM   #112
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

I think it's clear to everyone at this point -

Yes - if you 1: make 65K; 2: live in NYC; 3: have expensive taste - and 4: FULLY FINANCIALLY SUPPORT TWO PEOPLE...then yes - you're going to feel poor at the end of the month.

If you want to save more and pay off your CC debt faster (kudos to you for wanting those things) - then at least 1 of those 4 things needs to change.


Why doesn't your GF contribute anything? The main part of your problem is that you're essentially paying your GF 32,500 per year to "cook dinner and help out with daily minutiae"

She's significantly over-paid.
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:32 AM   #113
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Also - apparently your car is paid off? What is it worth?

(your GF doesn't have a car too does she?)
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:34 AM   #114
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Originally Posted by capone0 View Post
OP you live in NYC and you are trying to have 2 people live off a salary most people in NYC would struggle to live with especially in Manhattan. I'd get rid of your cheap ass non-salaried GF and move to a part of the country where 65k will get you somewhere......
Ok can we stop this. If he moves somewhere where $65K will get him somewhere he won't be earning $65K. Their is a reason NYC jobs pay more than similar jobs in other parts of the country and the main one is because it's far more expensive to live within working distance of NYC than those other parts of the country.
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:40 AM   #115
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

I'm just curious as to how people are saying that $65k isn't poor, but that you just have to make a ton of sacrifices.

Anyhow, yes, $65k is poor in NYC. Not like "starving" poor, but "need to plan out spending and not just get whatever" poor. It's definitely nowhere near enough to eat out all the time and generally buy whatever you feel like buying.

Make more money, have your GF get a job, and move to a cheaper place. Problems solved.

Now, it is super easy to spend a ton of money in NYC. I know several people who made $200k+ that didn't even have retirement savings since they blew their money on stupid crap.
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:40 AM   #116
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Also make sure you shop at stores with halfway decent prices (e.g., Trader Joe's, Fairway Market, Whole Foods). I know I'm gonna get lulz for Whole Foods. But in NYC, it is quite a bit cheaper than Morton William's, Garden of Eden, or The Food Emporium. For example, at Whole Foods, 16.9 fl oz of extra virgin olive oil are $5.99. 16 fl oz of shampoo and/or conditioner are $2.99.

Lastly, I don't understand the furniture argument. $15k in credit card debt today <=> $9k three years ago assuming 19% interest.

How can you spend $9k on furniture if you don't have the money? Brooklyn has an Ikea last time I checked.
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:44 AM   #117
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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How can you spend $9k on furniture if you don't have the money?
It's the (North) American way yo.
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:46 AM   #118
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Not like "starving" poor, but "need to plan out spending and not just get whatever" poor. It's definitely nowhere near enough to eat out all the time and generally buy whatever you feel like buying.
"Needing to plan spending and not getting whatever you want" does not mean you're poor. It's pretty much the definition of the middle class: you get to enjoy some nice things, but not all the time, and most of the time you're working on saving.
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:51 AM   #119
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Anyhow, yes, $65k is poor in NYC. Not like "starving" poor, but "need to plan out spending and not just get whatever" poor. It's definitely nowhere near enough to eat out all the time and generally buy whatever you feel like buying.
Median household income in the Bronx is ~$35k (in 2007). Note that's a household number, not a per-capita number. And it's for all of the Bronx, not just the South Bronx.

Median household income in NYC is ~$49k (in 2007). Median household income in Manhattan is ~$64k (again, in 2007). Given OP makes $65k, he's not poor. After all, 50% of NYC households make less than $49k. OP makes $65k individually, i.e., not counting his girlfriend's income. He's not rich by any means but he's waaay above the poverty line, in fact he's earning above average.
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:55 AM   #120
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Ok can we stop this. If he moves somewhere where $65K will get him somewhere he won't be earning $65K. Their is a reason NYC jobs pay more than similar jobs in other parts of the country and the main one is because it's far more expensive to live within working distance of NYC than those other parts of the country.
True.

That's why I'm asking what he does. if he's a bartender or an assistant than he isn't going to make more in another location. he needs to realize that he's pretty lower middle class or high lower class in NYC with his salary. On top of it he has a ton of dumb expenses most upper middle class or low upper class wouldnt' even think to spend. If you don't make that much, don't keep buying cologne. For god sakes you have a GF and i don't think she will really care if you don't vary your cologne that much.

If you don't make much cut the alcohol out. Cut most luxury items out till you either make more or get your GF to get a real job and stop letting her eat off your measley earnings. A way to actually live in NYC as I mentioned before is just cut her out of the equation or make her actually get a job.

65k for 2 people in NYC is near poor living. It's just so expensive especically with a car.
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:57 AM   #121
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Median household income in the Bronx is ~$35k (in 2007). Note that's a household number, not a per-capita number. And it's for all of the Bronx, not just the South Bronx.

Median household income in NYC is ~$49k (in 2007). Median household income in Manhattan is ~$64k (again, in 2007). Given OP makes $65k, he's not poor. After all, 50% of NYC households make less than $49k. OP makes $65k individually, i.e., not counting his girlfriend's income. He's not rich by any means but he's waaay above the poverty line, in fact he's earning above average.
Most people in NYC have probably lived there forever and know how to spend money more wisely than the donk OP does. 65k still doesn't get you very far and in NYC just like 30k wouldn't get you very far in Memphis. You could live decently but not comfortably. And it looks like OP wants to live comfortably but obviously can't afford it.
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Old 05-21-2010, 10:00 AM   #122
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

they want to keep you dumb
they want to keep you as sheep
they don't want you to get smarter
because that can be very dangerous
thats why they shot jfk
thats why they shot mlk
thats why they got rid of lsd
thats why they blew up the buildings
thats why the crashed the market
thats why confused
thats why when you smoke weed, you get paranoid
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Old 05-21-2010, 10:00 AM   #123
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2After909 View Post
Median household income in the Bronx is ~$35k (in 2007). Note that's a household number, not a per-capita number. And it's for all of the Bronx, not just the South Bronx.

Median household income in NYC is ~$49k (in 2007). Median household income in Manhattan is ~$64k (again, in 2007). Given OP makes $65k, he's not poor. After all, 50% of NYC households make less than $49k. OP makes $65k individually, i.e., not counting his girlfriend's income. He's not rich by any means but he's waaay above the poverty line, in fact he's earning above average.
I'm pretty sure that the average person anywhere has CC debt and either 0 or negative cash flow, but the average person is a ****** anyhow.

I can retract my "poor" designator because it apparently has negative connotations and dictionaries disagree with my "budgeting with sacrifices = poor" concept.

Let's forget about the food for a bit and question why the OP spends $200 a month on cable/tv/phone. Nix everything except internet, use skype, hulu, and get tracfones. Should save $100 a month right there.

Have your GF get a job.
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Old 05-21-2010, 10:00 AM   #124
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Quote:
LOL @ cologne comments, I don't go through an entire bottle every 2 months rather I purchase a new one every other month for variety.
So you throw away the half used one's or what?

Op,

Start cooking and cleaning for yourself.

Tell GF to get a ****ing job and to start contributing to rent and groceries

With the money that gets you pay down your debt as fast as possible

Start perhaps using some of the old barely used colognes before buying brand new ones every month

Give up the olive oil enemas or smoothies or whatever the hell you are using it for

Start running your house on mains electricity rather than battery power
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Old 05-21-2010, 10:01 AM   #125
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

65k for one person is not poor, but for two people in NYC is. The girlfriend needs to start contributing. She doesn't need to match your 65k, but something more than incidentals.

How many bottles of cologne do you really need? 3 or 4 is plenty for variety. Don't buy another bottle until you finish at least one you currently have. But that is beside the point. You don't have enough money right now. Cologne is a luxury and luxuries are the first to go when you try to save money.
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