Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Other Other Topics Discussion of arts & entertainment, pop culture, food & drink, health and exercise, fashion, relationships, work, and just about anything else in life except poker, sports, religion and politics.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-27-2013, 11:12 AM   #826
SGT RJ
Twitching
 
SGT RJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: @oldladygamer444
Posts: 49,114
Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

This entire thread is basically first world problems ITT. No, you are not poor if you make 65K a year. You are living better than basically 99% of the world's population.
SGT RJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2013, 11:20 AM   #827
Brocktoon
Unreada Bill
 
Brocktoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 8,673
Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT RJ View Post
This entire thread is basically first world problems ITT. No, you are not poor if you make 65K a year. You are living better than basically 99% of the world's population.
Blah, you could say this anytime someone currently living in the US makes even the slightest gripe about anything.

Just because people are born in a country with a relatively high standard of living when compared to the rest of the world doesn't mean that all their concerns are invalid by default.

Last edited by Brocktoon; 04-27-2013 at 11:43 AM.
Brocktoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2013, 11:35 AM   #828
jmakin
DoorDash Balla
 
jmakin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Streaming
Posts: 29,803
Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NajdorfDefense View Post
My 850-sq ft 1-bd in 2004, w/doorman, and still rent-stabilized [final year] was $2350 living in an utterly avg neighborhood. 9 years at 5% makes that $3645.

The FinDist median rent is $3450. That's as far from glamorous in Manhattan living as it gets.

Manhattan rental prices are 4.55x the national average for urban areas. So, an $800 unit in the 'average' city in America costs $3640 in Manhattan.

If you have a larger apt than a 1-bdrm, you can easily spend $85k+ on rent and utilities.

Rent control & stabilization further keeps median and average rents lower than they would otherwise be as many have noted -- and almost half the units are rent regulated, so prices, on average, are MUCH lower that they would be ceteris paribus.

My friend has a large 2bd in the W. Village he pays around $800/mo for. That would cost him $5793 otherwise, on average. Hell, my first studio from 20 years ago was 320 sq ft and cost $975/mo.

If you make < $69k a year, you qualify for public housing in NYC. And yet that is ~55% higher than what the median household income is.

Columbia U. subsidizes small 2-bdrm on UWS-Riverside for some of their professors, they still pay $1800/mo vs. the $6000 they would pay on UWS for the same size, unsubsidized.

The fact that some people are very, very lucky to find a phenomenal deal at $1500/mo does not disprove the facts of the average or median price of rental apt in Manahattan.

All the people who have never lived there and post about how they 'know' the prices aren't really that high [like they also did after OP] should stop making such absurd statements.
I'm assuming you go through a lot of cologne and olive oil.
jmakin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2013, 11:38 AM   #829
amazinmets73
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,339
Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Had no idea rent was so expensive in NYC in 1983. City was a dump back then.
amazinmets73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2013, 11:49 AM   #830
SGT RJ
Twitching
 
SGT RJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: @oldladygamer444
Posts: 49,114
Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brocktoon View Post
Blah, you could say this anytime someone currently living in the US makes even the slightest gripe about anything.

Just because people are born in a country with a relatively high standard of living when compared to the rest of the world doesn't mean that all their concerns are invalid by default.
I didn't say they were invalid.

I said it was a first world problem to wonder if you're poor because you make 65K.

As has been pointed out multiple times, NYC is expensive to live in and OP had some expenditures that were out of whack.

But thinking you might be poor when you have a roof over your head and plenty to eat is a bit ridiculous. You may be less well off then some of your peers, but that doesn't make you poor.

Especially if you're guzzling $20 of olive oil a month.
SGT RJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2013, 03:54 PM   #831
NajdorfDefense
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
NajdorfDefense's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: World’s Greatest Posčur
Posts: 17,281
Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amazinmets73 View Post
Had no idea rent was so expensive in NYC in 1983. City was a dump back then.
2013 - 20 = ????

a) 1993
b) 1983
c) 1893
d) Olive Oil
NajdorfDefense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2013, 04:04 PM   #832
Banned4lyfe
Sup-Bah? Pop-Bah Pooh-Bear Permanently Pooh-Bah Billy Walters Jr
 
Banned4lyfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: SoCal ✈
Posts: 13,932
Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

peasants
Banned4lyfe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2013, 04:18 PM   #833
2OutsNoProb
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: BK, NY
Posts: 15,997
Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by YoshiLuvsMe View Post
I make just a bit more a year than you and I always have plenty of money. Granted I live in a state where I own my own home and my mortgage is only 845 a month.
I read stuff like this and just shake my head. I live in NYC and would have a tough time finding a homeless person's cardboard box for $845/monthly.
2OutsNoProb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2013, 04:22 PM   #834
YoshiLuvsMe
centurion
 
YoshiLuvsMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 190
Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2OutsNoProb View Post
I read stuff like this and just shake my head. I live in NYC and would have a tough time finding a homeless person's cardboard box for $845/monthly.

Are rent control apartments even higher than that?
YoshiLuvsMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2013, 11:09 AM   #835
NajdorfDefense
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
NajdorfDefense's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: World’s Greatest Posčur
Posts: 17,281
Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Manhattan non-doorman rents*:

Studio - $2371
1bd - 3189
2bd - 4304

Doorman:
studio - 2746
1bd- 3946
2bd- $6183

Avg studio in Harlem, without doorman, is now $1481. With, $1835.


* As noted previously, the avg rents are skewed downwards due to ~half of the units being rent-controlled or rent-subsidized, which can come to thousands of dollars a month below market value.
NajdorfDefense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2013, 01:30 PM   #836
2OutsNoProb
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: BK, NY
Posts: 15,997
Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by YoshiLuvsMe View Post
Are rent control apartments even higher than that?
Perhaps I gave off the wrong impression. I live in Staten Island and spend a ton of my time there and in Brooklyn (two of the five boroughs of NYC) where there wouldn't be any rent-controlled apartments. As far as NYC, I have no idea what a RCA would go for, but what % of overall living spaces could these make up, 1%?
2OutsNoProb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2013, 01:45 PM   #837
NajdorfDefense
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
NajdorfDefense's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: World’s Greatest Posčur
Posts: 17,281
Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

In Manhattan, RCA/RS are approximately half of the supply.
NajdorfDefense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2013, 03:05 PM   #838
capone0
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
capone0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Philly
Posts: 43,034
Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NajdorfDefense View Post
Manhattan non-doorman rents*:

Studio - $2371
1bd - 3189
2bd - 4304

Doorman:
studio - 2746
1bd- 3946
2bd- $6183

Avg studio in Harlem, without doorman, is now $1481. With, $1835.


* As noted previously, the avg rents are skewed downwards due to ~half of the units being rent-controlled or rent-subsidized, which can come to thousands of dollars a month below market value.
what's the median or average size of the apartments? 1b~600 square feet, 2b~1000?
capone0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2013, 08:07 PM   #839
rakeme
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
rakeme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,715
Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Yeah man, you're totally poor. 65k per year is a laughable income, do you work at Mcdonalds or something? Get a real job OP.
rakeme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2013, 07:57 AM   #840
2OutsNoProb
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: BK, NY
Posts: 15,997
Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NajdorfDefense View Post
In Manhattan, RCA/RS are approximately half of the supply.
I assume this is including Section 8 hellholes in the upper part, which really aren't fair to include in this discussion since I'm pretty sure no one on 2p2 lives that life.
2OutsNoProb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2013, 08:03 AM   #841
2OutsNoProb
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: BK, NY
Posts: 15,997
Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Having just amused myself by looking over the first 50 or so posts in this thread, it's apparent that it's just behind the SE discussion "Would 2p2'ers make good NFL head coaches" in terms of proving just how delusional people on this site are.
2OutsNoProb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2013, 08:56 AM   #842
ty71087
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,308
Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Saving sucks and I don't know how all the people itt do it
ty71087 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2013, 12:32 PM   #843
jws43yale
veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,194
Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by capone0 View Post
what's the median or average size of the apartments? 1b~600 square feet, 2b~1000?
Prices and sizes are about right. If lucky you might get 750 sq ft for 1-bed and 1100 sq ft for two bed but having just finished looking for a two bedroom w/ doorman, those prices are spot on (although luckily I found a better deal). Also not included is the fact that when the market is hot you almost have to go through broker who will charge 15% of first years rent. If you are moving after less than 2 years in NYC a ton of those rents get inflated another 5-15% on brokers fees. Basically have to live in a spot 3-4 years to avoid brokers fees completely screwing you.
jws43yale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2013, 12:45 PM   #844
NajdorfDefense
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
NajdorfDefense's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: World’s Greatest Posčur
Posts: 17,281
Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2OutsNoProb View Post
I assume this is including Section 8 hellholes in the upper part, which really aren't fair to include in this discussion since I'm pretty sure no one on 2p2 lives that life.
Correct, this skews the data downwards, not upwards. If you excluded the 'hellholes' the avg and median prices would be even higher.
NajdorfDefense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2013, 02:53 PM   #845
metaname2
self-banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,996
Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NajdorfDefense View Post
Manhattan non-doorman rents*:

Studio - $2371
1bd - 3189
2bd - 4304

Doorman:
studio - 2746
1bd- 3946
2bd- $6183

Avg studio in Harlem, without doorman, is now $1481. With, $1835.


* As noted previously, the avg rents are skewed downwards due to ~half of the units being rent-controlled or rent-subsidized, which can come to thousands of dollars a month below market value.
Just found out from someone that there is currently no functional waiting list for smaller apartments at Co-op city in the Bronx. The largest 1BRs will set you back around 20k. With maintenance charges you would get hit with about $700-800 a month in total housing/utilities expenses. That's about what my girlfriend and I spent for a similarly sized apartment in an unexceptional neighborhood in Austin Texas 12 years ago.
metaname2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2013, 05:07 PM   #846
jws43yale
veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,194
Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

There is not a soul on 2p2 who could live in co-op city.
jws43yale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2013, 06:27 PM   #847
VincentVega
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,062
Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

this thread makes me sad. I want to live in NYC one day..just been something ive wanted to do since i was a kid. Even if I made enough money im not sure id do it. Didn't know about these brokerage fees...or maybe im reading it wrong.
VincentVega is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2013, 07:22 PM   #848
TomCollins
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
TomCollins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: The Blockchain
Posts: 43,019
Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jws43yale View Post
There is not a soul on 2p2 who could live in co-op city.
I don't know squat about co-op city other than being the lyric of a song, but am curious why.
TomCollins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2013, 07:52 PM   #849
capone0
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
capone0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Philly
Posts: 43,034
Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VincentVega View Post
this thread makes me sad. I want to live in NYC one day..just been something ive wanted to do since i was a kid. Even if I made enough money im not sure id do it. Didn't know about these brokerage fees...or maybe im reading it wrong.
I personally love to visit the city to see my undergrad friends. I would hate to live there though for many reasons including the insane costs for everything related to housing. Taxes are insane as well. I've also lived in the South where most housing is pretty cheap so to move to a shoe box which is probably old as **** and ugly as **** for 3x what I'm paying just seems horrible.

While I like many of the aspects of the city, it's not enough to overcome the price, the smell (****ing trash everywhere), the traffic (can't really have a car and the taxi drivers are nuts).

Brokerage fees are exactly what they sound like. Housing goes like crazy in NYC, so you need a real estate agent or broker to get a place. You have to pay them essentially 1M rent or worse to help you out. In most cities, the person renting out the place pays the fees, but in NYC both the renter and the LL pay a fee. It's really insane.
capone0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2013, 07:53 PM   #850
amazinmets73
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,339
Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jws43yale View Post
There is not a soul on 2p2 who could live in co-op city.
I could. Used to have an aunt who lived there, it was a piece of cake.
amazinmets73 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive