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Old 05-23-2010, 07:08 PM   #576
Triumph36
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Originally Posted by Phildo View Post
i'm gonna guess that triumph lives in a non-manhattan borough and doesn't have a car.
you'd be correct. i think it'd be a huge pain to own a car - i had considered getting one when i moved to the city, but as i lived there longer, i realized i didn't need one.
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Old 05-23-2010, 07:28 PM   #577
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

I live in Brooklyn without a car with no major problems. I do live west of Prospect Park where the subway stops are fairly plentiful as a poster above said, though.
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Old 05-23-2010, 08:33 PM   #578
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Meh, maybe I'm overstating the car thing. Its really not worth making a big deal about anyway.

I dont live in Manhattan and I can't imagine not having a car. Maybe its just me, but a car is an absolute necessity afaic. Of all the people I know that don't live in Manhattan only 1 of them does not own a car, he also doesn't have a driver's licesnse and is by anyone's definition a freak and very weird dude.

Again, this is all my own personal experience and opinion so if others who live in the city disagree or get by fine without a car in an outter borough then more power to them. Maybe its more common than I realize.
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Old 05-23-2010, 09:14 PM   #579
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Meh, maybe I'm overstating the car thing. Its really not worth making a big deal about anyway.

I dont live in Manhattan and I can't imagine not having a car. Maybe its just me, but a car is an absolute necessity afaic. Of all the people I know that don't live in Manhattan only 1 of them does not own a car, he also doesn't have a driver's licesnse and is by anyone's definition a freak and very weird dude.

Again, this is all my own personal experience and opinion so if others who live in the city disagree or get by fine without a car in an outter borough then more power to them. Maybe its more common than I realize.
no one i know who lives in an outer borough has had a car. obviously it's more common than you realize, since istewart noted that a majority of people in brooklyn do not own cars.
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Old 05-23-2010, 10:31 PM   #580
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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no one i know who lives in an outer borough has had a car. obviously it's more common than you realize, since istewart noted that a majority of people in brooklyn do not own cars.
No offense but this has to mean that either your sample size for this statement consists of about four people, or the people in your sample all live in Brooklyn Heights/DUMBO/Williamsburg/Astoria. I'm pretty sure if you knew more than a handful of people and these people lived in Bayside, or Bath Beach, or New Dorp, or Mott Haven, etc etc etc, that your statement couldn't possibly be true.
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Old 05-23-2010, 10:31 PM   #581
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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- 3 prostitutes to service my every whim, 24 hours a day
This has probably been answered but are these girls exclusive with you like concubines or do they sleep with other men as well?
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Old 05-23-2010, 10:49 PM   #582
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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No offense but this has to mean that either your sample size for this statement consists of about four people, or the people in your sample all live in Brooklyn Heights/DUMBO/Williamsburg/Astoria. I'm pretty sure if you knew more than a handful of people and these people lived in Bayside, or Bath Beach, or New Dorp, or Mott Haven, etc etc etc, that your statement couldn't possibly be true.
wow what brilliant deductions. what form of advanced physics are you studying in the new york area?
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Old 05-23-2010, 10:52 PM   #583
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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That they are happy is just a matter of adapting. No matter how bad something if people are stuck in that position they are happy. It is just what happens.
People who make less money arent necessarily "stuck in that position".

Some people make the explicit decision NOT to go down a career path that would pay better, because they don't value the things money can buy nearly as much as others.


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Depends on how you define poor. I personally wouldn't have started a topic like this but if I had I wouldn't use the term poor since most people tend to use poor in a very objective sense (or at least they think they do but it is actually a lot more subjective to their own status). That being said there is also a way to define poor that is based on the ability to meet the expectations of your peer group. I think that is what OP is talking about -- it certainly is what I am talking about. There is plenty of stuff on OP's list that is a luxury by a $30k/year person's standard but there is nothing on that list that would be considered a luxury by middle class standards and yet he is struggling.

Poor is understood relative to the people around you, but modern technology has put us in a place where a substantial percentage of the population enjoys a quality of life nearly identical to the extremely wealthy.

The effect of diminishing returns on income is enormous.

It isn't just a matter of "getting used to it", it's the fact that those things actually provide very little above and beyond the psychological benefits associated with status. Which is significantly less important to some people than others.


I can tell the difference between and prefer a high end steak house to the keg, but the increase in enjoyment from a $30 meal and a $120 meal is negligable to me. The only thing that ends up determining how enjoyable the dinner was, is how interesting the conversation was.


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You don't have to be poor to be thrifty -- lots of people are cheap but that is a conscious choice. If being thrifty is imposed on you by necessity then you are poor assuming your wants are reasonable for your income.

It's called compromise, and the fact that people have to accept some in their life is not a sign that they're poor - only that they're not insanely rich.



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What if they pack their lunch but don't shop for cloths at second-hand stores -- can they complain about money being tight? There is always something else that can be done or sacrificed to make living less expensive -- at what point do we allow people to complain?
Not unexpectedly I tend to find that most people draw the line of what it is reasonable to expect of others just under their own social status.

My personal definition?

Safe / comfortable housing, healthy diet, transportation, health insurance, adequate pension (or equivalent savings), with at least some left over for recreation.

If he worked a bit harder at adjusting his budget and reconsidering some of his spending choices, he could make all of those things work.
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Old 05-23-2010, 10:58 PM   #584
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Abbaddabba - While I generally agree with your points, you're missing one major aspect of happiness that money can bring - NOT having to work.

Sure, you can be quite comfortable on a mediocre salary, but your flexibility is gone because you have to work 9-6 like 51 weeks of the year.

I don't want money to buy ultra-luxury type stuff, because, as you stated, upper-middle class does really well these days with technology. I don't care about status. However, I really don't want to be stuck in an office staring at excel in 10 years still.
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Old 05-23-2010, 11:20 PM   #585
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Obviously if you hate your job the money matters a lot more.

Some people enjoy their jobs.

And if you do, it isnt necessarily worth working hard at getting a career you dont think you'll like just because the money is better.
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Old 05-23-2010, 11:37 PM   #586
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Originally Posted by Abbaddabba View Post
Obviously if you hate your job the money matters a lot more.

Some people enjoy their jobs.

And if you do, it isnt necessarily worth working hard at getting a career you dont think you'll like just because the money is better.
But I'm not necessarily saying that you have to hate the job.

When money doesn't become an issue, I can think of 10,000 things I'd rather do than a job that I like/love.
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Old 05-23-2010, 11:38 PM   #587
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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wow what brilliant deductions. what form of advanced physics are you studying in the new york area?
Nice wiseass comeback. All I'm doing is wondering how it's possible that you know any significant number of people in a city overrun with vehicles, but none of whom own one. If I'm flat-out wrong, feel free to tell me, maybe you do in fact know 30 people in the area who are car-less.
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Old 05-23-2010, 11:44 PM   #588
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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But I'm not necessarily saying that you have to hate the job.

When money doesn't become an issue, I can think of 10,000 things I'd rather do than a job that I like/love.

Most people get rich by working very hard.

Hard work is something that some people would rather not deal with.

So they take a job that they can tolerate, even though it means they'll have to be working more.



And then some people who take ****ty jobs are just doing it because they're lazy, and don't give enough consideration to their future.

But having an unimpressive salary is not always something you get stuck with. It can be a rational choice, given certain sets of preferences.
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:22 AM   #589
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

What does your gf do all day if she isn't working or exercising?

If she works part time doing anything it will significantly reduce the stress you're essentially forced to endure as long as your current situation remains unchanged.

If you want a more stable life either move or work for it.
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:29 AM   #590
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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What does your gf do all day if she isn't working or exercising?
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Old 05-24-2010, 04:34 AM   #591
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Needs more olive oil.
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:55 AM   #592
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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People who make less money arent necessarily "stuck in that position".

Some people make the explicit decision NOT to go down a career path that would pay better, because they don't value the things money can buy nearly as much as others.
People like this do exist. I know a few people who really are happy just having menial jobs that don't pay very much but which allow for freedom and bring little stress to their lives. I also know lawyers who choose less paying options because it gives them more freedom, less hours, and less stress. That being said these people are in the minority. If I go walk around the poor part of town interviewing people they are stuck, they would prefer more money, and they will jump at it. Same with professionals -- almost everyone wanted big law at graduation.

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Poor is understood relative to the people around you, but modern technology has put us in a place where a substantial percentage of the population enjoys a quality of life nearly identical to the extremely wealthy.

The effect of diminishing returns on income is enormous.

It isn't just a matter of "getting used to it", it's the fact that those things actually provide very little above and beyond the psychological benefits associated with status. Which is significantly less important to some people than others.
Not true at all. If you use a stupid scale like someone tried earlier than yes -- we no longer have to change locations with the season nor kill our food with a spear so on that scale yes. On a less ******ed metric though that isn't the case. Take just the start of the day and getting to work as an example. To live downtown in the financial core costs about four times what it costs to live in the suburbs. If someone can afford that they avoid wasting an hour in traffic each morning and evening. As someone who has been caught in traffic a handful of times there is a major quality of life difference there. Then we another level to consider -- people who can't afford cars and have to take public transportation. In cities with subways maybe not as bad but if we are talking bus only with cold winters that is a lot worse than going down an elevator and walking a few blocks though an underground shopping mall then going up another elevator.

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I can tell the difference between and prefer a high end steak house to the keg, but the increase in enjoyment from a $30 meal and a $120 meal is negligable to me. The only thing that ends up determining how enjoyable the dinner was, is how interesting the conversation was.
I wouldn't say negligible but I do agree with the general point you are going for. The problem though is that the $120 isn't just for the food and it actually does have an impact on how interesting the conversation is. First by eliminating families and obnoxious children and other people who generally interfere though annoying distractions with conversation. It also impacts the type of people you'll meet -- if I walk down to Hy's I'm going to meet and talk to interesting people who work on the Hill while if I go to Montana's I'm not.

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It's called compromise, and the fact that people have to accept some in their life is not a sign that they're poor - only that they're not insanely rich.
Labeling comes down to people's definitions. I think the main point is that people are financially uncomfortable and that they need to make compromises that they didn't expect to have to -- so they feel poor. It is ******ed I guess to say that someone who makes $200k is poor but I guarantee you that he doesn't have the lifestyle he though he would have for $200k before he made it. There is a topic in BBV4Life that I hope is a level but some kid is finally making money at poker and he thinks he is going to have this baller life on $4k a month. Our perception of what is a lot of money and what a certain amount can get you is so greatly overestimated until you get there.
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:05 PM   #593
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

im sure this point has probably been mentioned already...

$300/month on meat and seafood is just silly.

You can get a huge pork loin for about $18 pretty much anywhere that will make about 10-12 really nice sized fillets.

a 2-3lb beef roast is about $12 at most and would make 3-4 meals.

theres nothing wrong with frozen salmon once in a while.

vegetarian nights are always a good way to cut down on the food budget too.

homeade pizza is amazing and is a lot less expensive than delivery or digornos

sometime soon Im going to be starting a "dont buy groceries for a week" thread where you only use your pantry, freezer and other leftover staples for a whole week of meals. I urge you to participate so you can really see how much you are overspending. look me up in a few weeks.
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:22 PM   #594
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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sometime soon Im going to be starting a "dont buy groceries for a week" thread where you only use your pantry, freezer and other leftover staples for a whole week of meals. I urge you to participate so you can really see how much you are overspending. look me up in a few weeks.
This sounds like a fun project. I know people buy and accumulate lots of stuff they don't use; hadn't considered that this extends to food you don't eat, but, thinking about it, it totally does.
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:25 PM   #595
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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grunch- vitamins are a dumb tax, like lottery tickets.
Somebody bump that one thread where we make fun of stuff like this plz.
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:32 PM   #596
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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sometime soon Im going to be starting a "dont buy groceries for a week" thread where you only use your pantry, freezer and other leftover staples for a whole week of meals. I urge you to participate so you can really see how much you are overspending. look me up in a few weeks.
I think people with families might be ok but young couples would likely not have these things. I'm pretty sure that even as a collective everyone on my floor doesn't have enough calories (not counting alcohol) to meet the required daily recommended amount for seven days even if we don't care about trying to match food and make a meal. If you eat fresh food you have to buy food multiple times a week just for the day and the next -- maybe two days into the future at most -- so you never amount this store of unused stuff.
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:44 PM   #597
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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I think people with families might be ok but young couples would likely not have these things. I'm pretty sure that even as a collective everyone on my floor doesn't have enough calories (not counting alcohol) to meet the required daily recommended amount for seven days even if we don't care about trying to match food and make a meal. If you eat fresh food you have to buy food multiple times a week just for the day and the next -- maybe two days into the future at most -- so you never amount this store of unused stuff.
until 18 months ago i was a young couple so i disagree with that.
It will be a fun thread thats been done on other forums.
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:44 PM   #598
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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I mentioned this elsewhere as well as Brocktoon.

Brooklyn, certain areas I could see not having a car.
Queens, same thing.
Bronx, you'd almost have to, although the Bronx is an utter ****hole anyway that no one would want to live in.
SI, forget it, you have to have a car.
Ditto for Long Island.
lol sounds like someone got robbed in a ****ty bx neighborhood and is scared of minoritities
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:46 PM   #599
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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There is a topic in BBV4Life that I hope is a level but some kid is finally making money at poker and he thinks he is going to have this baller life on $4k a month. Our perception of what is a lot of money and what a certain amount can get you is so greatly overestimated until you get there.
While 4k a month at a regular job will never give you a baller lifestyle unless you skimp in a major way in some area of your life, you can live pretty baller making the money from poker. It depends on how good you are at life in general though, and if you take advantage of the freedom poker affords. For 4k a month you can spend years travelling the world and living very well, and even saving money, a lifestyle only trust fund kids can afford in their twenties.

Likely though, he will stay in whatever crappy suburban town he lives in, buy a low model BMW, and drink with his friends on the weekend. Perhaps buying an extra round of shots for his friends to feel "baller." Americans aren't very good at spending money and enjoying life, myself included, though I am finally getting better.
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:53 PM   #600
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

and rthis blanket 30 pct on rent **** is ******ed
pre tax pre debt money on paper means absolutely nothing
if you make 65 k a year in a state with no income tax lets say selling stock youll pay capital gains tax, no fica etc and end up with around 50 k net
if you make 65 k in nyc, spend 500 a month on cc debt, 800 on child support, nyc and stae taxes etc your lefrt with next to nothing and should not be spending the same ammount on rent as the first guy
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