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Old 05-23-2010, 06:49 AM   #526
deucedeuces
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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in alaska corn is like a dollar a cob
ya but you can catch your own fish and hunt your own game!
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Old 05-23-2010, 06:52 AM   #527
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

I can do that with an xbox
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Old 05-23-2010, 07:49 AM   #528
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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But I think that you have a poor sense of what luxuries can fit into a fixed salary, and that you would basically consider a life without them "unacceptable" even though the people living like that quite enjoy their lives, and are probably no more or less happy than you because of it.
That they are happy is just a matter of adapting. No matter how bad something if people are stuck in that position they are happy. It is just what happens.

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But the question he's asking is whether it makes him "poor", and shopping at walmart does not imply that he's poor.
Depends on how you define poor. I personally wouldn't have started a topic like this but if I had I wouldn't use the term poor since most people tend to use poor in a very objective sense (or at least they think they do but it is actually a lot more subjective to their own status). That being said there is also a way to define poor that is based on the ability to meet the expectations of your peer group. I think that is what OP is talking about -- it certainly is what I am talking about. There is plenty of stuff on OP's list that is a luxury by a $30k/year person's standard but there is nothing on that list that would be considered a luxury by middle class standards and yet he is struggling.

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You don't have to be poor to be thrifty.
Often the reason people get poor is because they can't control their spending.
You don't have to be poor to be thrifty -- lots of people are cheap but that is a conscious choice. If being thrifty is imposed on you by necessity then you are poor assuming your wants are reasonable for your income.

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Agreed, people saying money is tight, but don't bring lunch to work and smoke a pack a day. Don't really for bad for them, think about things first.
What if they pack their lunch but don't shop for cloths at second-hand stores -- can they complain about money being tight? There is always something else that can be done or sacrificed to make living less expensive -- at what point do we allow people to complain?

Not unexpectedly I tend to find that most people draw the line of what it is reasonable to expect of others just under their own social status.
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Old 05-23-2010, 12:15 PM   #529
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Why are there dozens upon dozens of mentions of Wal-Mart in a thread about NYC?
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Old 05-23-2010, 12:15 PM   #530
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Henry,
You honestly think that if I posted the house that 1600 a month would buy in Iowa VS the apartment you could rent in NY the majority would choose the apartment?
I would hope they would choose to live in NYC if they were younger and without a family (even older or with a family shouldn't matter that much, Iowa? WTF is there to do?)

This situation depends a lot on what type of person you are. I have plenty of friends who would be content living in either boring suburbs, or rural areas with lots of space...i don't understand either at this point in my life.

Last edited by springsteen87; 05-23-2010 at 12:21 PM.
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Old 05-23-2010, 12:49 PM   #531
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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your problem is you are a moron not that you are poor
i gotta agree!
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Old 05-23-2010, 12:56 PM   #532
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Wow, people can be stupid.

You can buy a house for $800k in NY, or the same house in Kansas for $225k. Why doesn't everyone buy their houses in the midwest? It's not like there are any other factors on where one lives, right?

NYers also shouldn't have cars, unless there are extenuating circumstances that make you have one. Like you have to travel with it for work. Or something weird. I don't get the sense that one exists here.

I hardly think olive oil and cologne are luxury items. But if you're paying top dollar for them, and it seems that you are, then you shouldn't be using them so frequently like it's regular vegetable oil and air freshener.

Relatively speaking, OP's in a pretty good financial state. He is working on clearing his credit card debt, and will do so in 1-3 years if he doesn't use his card. He is supporting someone else, and I won't tell a man not to fully support someone he cares about. I hope he plans on marrying this woman though for all the support he is providing. Well, some of you might think marrying this woman will be the worst thing, actually. Whichever.

I hope your job has upward mobility as well. If this salary is frozen, then you will run into trouble. If you plan on hitting some raises, and perhaps some promotions in your future, living in NY will be pretty cool.
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Old 05-23-2010, 12:59 PM   #533
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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just curious, but if NYC is so damn expensive, why don't some of you just move elsewhere? I can't imagine living in a place where I need 100k to live comfortably, especially single. You can live like a king for half that in a lot of places. I realize I am almost contradicting myself, but 50k goes a long way in a lot of places.
You definitely don't need 100k to live "comfortably" as a single person in New York. I realize the word is subjective, but that is ridiculous.

Obviously the first sentence is a bit circular. Part of the reason NYC is so expensive is because everyone wants to live there. So the reason they don't move because it's expensive is because... they want to live there.

Lastly, I will say again that I think that, when NYC is discussed, people really underestimate the costs incurred by having a car. Buying/leasing one, insurance, repairs, gas, parking, tilt factor/hassle... that's a lot of money per year, vs. ~$1100 for an unlimited subway pass.
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Old 05-23-2010, 01:03 PM   #534
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Why are there dozens upon dozens of mentions of Wal-Mart in a thread about NYC?
I posted on this earlier, stating that OP can't possibly go to a WalMart if he lives in Manhattan itself, and no one responded.

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NYers also shouldn't have cars, unless there are extenuating circumstances that make you have one. Like you have to travel with it for work. Or something weird. I don't get the sense that one exists here.
This would depend on your definition of "NY'er". Someone living in Manhattan, working there, with little in terms of family or friends that live outside of Manhattan? No, you don't need a car. Living in Brooklyn and working in Brooklyn, Queens or Manhattan? You could manage with no car. Live like I do in Staten Island, or someone else in Long Island etc? Car is a necessity.
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Old 05-23-2010, 01:07 PM   #535
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

I live in a suburb of Helena.
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Old 05-23-2010, 01:42 PM   #536
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Originally Posted by punkass View Post
Wow, people can be stupid.

You can buy a house for $800k in NY, or the same house in Kansas for $225k. Why doesn't everyone buy their houses in the midwest? It's not like there are any other factors on where one lives, right?

There are lots of houses in Orange County, Putnam County, Dutchess and Ulster, NY -- 70-120 miles away from the City --for under $300K...and in some parts, well under. But the cost of the commute to the City is an additional expense and costs time as well.

You can maybe buy a small 2 BR apartment in NYC/Manhattan for $800K -- but not in a nice area. Head up to the Bronx or way out in Brooklyn or Queens, you might find relative bargains. A studio in a good location in Manhattan is, minimum, about $300K--plus maintenance.


NYers also shouldn't have cars, unless there are extenuating circumstances that make you have one. Like you have to travel with it for work. Or something weird. I don't get the sense that one exists here.

You do not need a car in NYC if you work and live there. If you desperately need a car once a year, rent one for the weekend. NYC public transportation gets you anywhere in the city.

I hardly think olive oil and cologne are luxury items. But if you're paying top dollar for them, and it seems that you are, then you shouldn't be using them so frequently like it's regular vegetable oil and air freshener.

There are also places to shop where some "luxury" items are cheap if bought in bulk. For instance, you can buy 20lb bags of great rice (I like jasmine rice) in Chinatown for a lot less than such rice costs in smaller amounts in NYC supermarkets and fine foods stores. Stay away from the fancy stores and look around Little Italy and Chinatown for bulk bargains.

Relatively speaking, OP's in a pretty good financial state. He is working on clearing his credit card debt, and will do so in 1-3 years if he doesn't use his card. He is supporting someone else, and I won't tell a man not to fully support someone he cares about. I hope he plans on marrying this woman though for all the support he is providing. Well, some of you might think marrying this woman will be the worst thing, actually. Whichever.

No, he won't clear his credit card in 3 years @ $500/mo. The 20% APR keeps jacking it up. He has to pay more to clear it.

I hope your job has upward mobility as well. If this salary is frozen, then you will run into trouble. If you plan on hitting some raises, and perhaps some promotions in your future, living in NY will be pretty cool.
NYC is definitely expensive, but you are nowhere near "poor". As others have said, you just need to trim down certain expenses, get rid of others, and pay off the credit card. You could move further out, but I understand the draw of the City. It's fun and exciting, even if you can't afford many of the extras. Still, you cannot afford to participate in all the nice City goodies anyway-- those great restaurants and shows and clubs are out of your budget. If you are going out and spending, then change that to free activities -- movies and shows in the Park, free concerts at lunch, museums.
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Old 05-23-2010, 01:56 PM   #537
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

OK, strike the bit about getting the card paid off. Missed the post where you worked out a deal with the card company. Yes, you'll get it paid off. Good for you for not going the bankruptcy route. I assume that you are no longer buying the girlfriend expensive gifts and that she is paying her share of the home costs. (If you are spending half the money you earn on the apartment, she should, too.)

And while you still own the car (today), get out to the boonies and buy toilet paper, paper towels, light bulbs and various long-term foodstuffs in bulk at Walmart or Costco or such places. Sell the car tomorrow. There are lots of used car stores in Queens -- someone will take it off your hands and give you money.

And when you sell the car, be sure to turn in the plates to DMV and let them know it's sold. (If they don't know and don't get the plates, it turns into a mess.) Cancel the insurance. You are gonna save a lot not having a car in NYC.

Last edited by Dooper; 05-23-2010 at 02:14 PM. Reason: adding stuff
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Old 05-23-2010, 01:57 PM   #538
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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No, you're simply wrong on this. I would LOVE to live in a house in Iowa that I was paying 1600 a month on. It would be an awesome house. I can't currently afford such a thing, but damn it would be a nice house.

You can trash talk Iowa all you want, but I would WAY rather live in a nice house in the country than a small dorm room in the city for the same price. For the love of god for 1600 a month I feel like I could have a piece of land with a pond I could fish on.

I'm about 90% that Henry is an incredibly elaborate gimmick account. There's simply no way that a person exists who derives so much of his value from what he spends on things.
You would think differently if you ever got out of Iowa.
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Old 05-23-2010, 02:03 PM   #539
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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I'm amazed at how much you spend on groceries.
OP you a poker player or what?????You live in a borough?You should have 5 different people that sell you their EBT card every month.
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Old 05-23-2010, 02:09 PM   #540
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

for people too stupid or lazy to read:

op is on a 0 interest payment plan with his cc company.
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Old 05-23-2010, 02:16 PM   #541
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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You might want that but you are by far in the minority. The vast majority of people do not want that.
Only 30% of Americans live in cities. About 20% live in rural areas and the rest live in suburbs. I dunno about Canada, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a similar breakdown. It seems as though the Klompys of North America outnumber the Henrys by a solid margin--and yes, I realize there's a difference between suburbs and truly rural areas. While Henry's "82% of Americans live in metro areas" is true, a majority of these are people in suburbia with 1,500+ square foot houses, two cars, a three-mile trip to the grocery store, no public transportation, and not a whole lot of high culture.

Last edited by Quicksilvre; 05-23-2010 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 05-23-2010, 02:21 PM   #542
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Only 30% of Americans live in cities. About 20% live in rural areas and the rest live in suburbs. I dunno about Canada, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a similar breakdown. It seems as though the Klompys of North America outnumber the Henrys by a solid margin--and yes, I realize there's a difference between suburbs and truly rural areas. While Henry's "82% of Americans live in metro areas" is true, a majority of these are people in suburbia with 1,500+ square foot houses, two cars, a three-mile trip to the grocery store, no public transportation, and not a whole lot of high culture.
I was starting to think my grasp of the obvious was broken and Henry knew what he was talking about.
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Old 05-23-2010, 02:24 PM   #543
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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ya but you can catch your own fish and hunt your own game!
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I can do that with an xbox
Best exchange of the thread so far, imo
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Old 05-23-2010, 02:51 PM   #544
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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I prefer living in the mountains to living in the city, I'm in the minority it seems but my opinion means more than yours does (whoever).
Living in Colorado Springs was, by far, the best place I've ever lived. So much so that I will never consider living in a place like NYC.
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Old 05-23-2010, 03:09 PM   #545
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Only 30% of Americans live in cities. About 20% live in rural areas and the rest live in suburbs. I dunno about Canada, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a similar breakdown. It seems as though the Klompys of North America outnumber the Henrys by a solid margin--and yes, I realize there's a difference between suburbs and truly rural areas. While Henry's "82% of Americans live in metro areas" is true, a majority of these are people in suburbia with 1,500+ square foot houses, two cars, a three-mile trip to the grocery store, no public transportation, and not a whole lot of high culture.
You can call it whatever -- nobody wants to live in the mid-west which is what what we are discussing. I see living in the suburbs of a major city as sucking but nowhere as much as living in Iowa. Are you just trying to be disingenuous or do you actually lack the ability to see that living in a suburb is a lot more like living in a city than rural living?
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Old 05-23-2010, 03:20 PM   #546
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

I found this cost of living comparison tool pretty interesting.

http://cgi.money.cnn.com/tools/costo...tofliving.html

I am too lazy to find out if the figures they use are accurate, but the OP could cut his cost of living expenses by ~1/3 simply by moving about 20 minutes outside the city.

I put in my area of NJ (30 minute train commute to Penn Station) and compared it to living in Manhattan, and it says that a comparable salary to $65,000 living in NJ would be $109,000. Even factoring in $500 a month for commuting expenses and an hour a day longer commuting time, it seems like an easy trade off to cut living expenses by a third
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Old 05-23-2010, 03:44 PM   #547
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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You can call it whatever -- nobody wants to live in the mid-west which is what what we are discussing. I see living in the suburbs of a major city as sucking but nowhere as much as living in Iowa. Are you just trying to be disingenuous or do you actually lack the ability to see that living in a suburb is a lot more like living in a city than rural living?
I am not saying OP should move to Iowa. Indeed, between buying a bottle of $70 cologne every other month and buying cold-pressed organic olive oil, OP clearly has an idea of how he wants to live. In that case, he has to work harder to make it work budget-wise.

My issue is that you seem to be saying that most people want to live in places where small apartments cost $1600 a month. That is clearly not the case. Enough people do in order to push the price up to $1600 a month, of course. However, several posters are pointing out that OP can make a huge cut in his monthly rent by just moving 20 minutes away. The main issue of all of this is that OP is complaining about his lack of money, when he has cheaper options readily available. If he prefers not to make use of these options, then he really can't complain.

Last edited by Quicksilvre; 05-23-2010 at 03:53 PM.
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Old 05-23-2010, 03:55 PM   #548
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Not being from NYC I have no idea what the rental market is like. What I said is that $1600/month is not a lot for a decent apartment. It would be an effort to find one in my city for that price. That isn't using my standards as that would make it considerably more but just using what I would expect as a young professional couple they would want and expect.
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Old 05-23-2010, 03:57 PM   #549
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

To all those saying poor is relative, it's not. Poor is poor. That's why they even calculate a set line, in the world overall and in your home country, which is called the ****ing POVERTY LINE.

If you're above it, you're not poor. You might not be rich, but you sure aren't POOR.

Then again, not being poor is not exactly life's goal. We all aim for higher. But we beat the poor line (at least we hope to).
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Old 05-23-2010, 04:04 PM   #550
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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To all those saying poor is relative, it's not. Poor is poor. That's why they even calculate a set line, in the world overall and in your home country, which is called the ****ing POVERTY LINE.
A lot of poverty line definitions are actually relative -- I know this is the case in Canada where poverty groups will define poor as a percentage of the median income for an area. I don't agree with this since that isn't measuring poverty so much as income inequality but that is how they do it.

I think OP choosing poor was an unfortunate choice of terms but I don't think it is absurd to talk about people who make a lot of money being financially uncomfortable despite making a lot of money.
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