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Old 05-22-2010, 08:45 PM   #476
Anacardo
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Actually no. I'm thinking a house would be out of the question and also not really what a young professional couple would seek. What I'm thinking is condo in a nicer building -- either a one bedroom with a den/office or a two bedroom. Something in the 900-1200sqft size. Lots of windows and open concept to make it look bigger. Modern appliances in the kitchen, no stains on the tub, sink, toilets, and newish looking. Common areas look clean and presentable. If not downtown proper still close enough to the social area that it would be a long walk or a cheap cab ride. Short commute to work. This isn't asking for a lot.
I mean, you take this by pieces and it all sounds pretty reasonable. You run it all together and you're basically asking for somebody to cut the Gordian knot of US urban living for you and not have to pay through the nose for it.

Leaving aside that your characteristic choice of a 'young professional' occupation is I-banking, let's look at what we're asking for here. First of all, you're specifying a new building, or one that's been thoroughly refurbished. For the insane real estate prices you're going to find in America's 'grand old cities,' that is asking a hell of a lot - we never stop talking about our infrastructure problems and how we finished the East Coast around 1880 and haven't done **** since, etc etc. It is of course very difficult and expensive to gut older, occupied construction and rebuild it, so you're either living somewhere where they need to recoup those costs, or your living out in the new Sun Belt, e.g., cities without the super-vibrant cultural quotient of New York / LA / Chicago / DC / Montreal / SF.

Being able to live in a trendy neighborhood *and* where you work, outside of maybe three cities I can think of, just requires you to hit a grand slam in life and get really lucky even when prioritizing specifically to make this happen.

My old apartment in Atlanta, on Cheshire Bridge, a nice-but-not-nice-enough-for-this place, with modern construction / facilities in a semi-hip area semi-close to downtown, basically close but no cigar to what you're asking for, was $1300/mo. Atlanta is one of the best cities I can think of to make this kind of thing happen, and you'd have to be pretty lucky and pretty on top of your **** to get it done. On the Eastern seaboard or in the great cities of California what you are asking for is simply impossible.

So, if what you're saying is, 'the generations raised on TV are kind of bummed that their lives aren't like LA Law or The Cosby Show,' welp, welcome to the malaise of 21st century culture. We're all trying to work it out.

I can't remember what we were originally arguing about, but I'm sure this wasn't it. I'm pretty sure I was just fading you.
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Old 05-22-2010, 08:53 PM   #477
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

lol @ our generation

my grandparents fought in WWII, worked 15 hour days and were thrilled to be able to buy a small condo in florda to retire to

obviously skewed because people here are going to be richer than average, but just sickening how entitled ppl are
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Old 05-22-2010, 08:54 PM   #478
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

just curious, but if NYC is so damn expensive, why don't some of you just move elsewhere? I can't imagine living in a place where I need 100k to live comfortably, especially single. You can live like a king for half that in a lot of places. I realize I am almost contradicting myself, but 50k goes a long way in a lot of places.
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Old 05-22-2010, 08:55 PM   #479
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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lol @ our generation

my grandparents fought in WWII, worked 15 hour days and were thrilled to be able to buy a small condo in florda to retire to

obviously skewed because people here are going to be richer than average, but just sickening how entitled ppl are
yeah we are spoiled, by and large, but the tone of your posts are ridiculous tbh. It sounds like you think people need to live in shanty towns and eat beans every day, in order to feel what its like to live like that.

Um, no thanks, my parents went to college so I didn't have to.
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Old 05-22-2010, 09:02 PM   #480
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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lol @ our generation

my grandparents fought in WWII, worked 15 hour days and were thrilled to be able to buy a small condo in florda to retire to

obviously skewed because people here are going to be richer than average, but just sickening how entitled ppl are
Poverty, in the sense of the anxiety and uncertainty of not feeling like you have enough or having to make sacrifices based on what you're used to, is an entirely relative evil. Now, we have basic needs that are pretty absolute - keeping fed and warm and laid and sheltered and what not - but a hell of a lot of being poor comes down to expectations. 21st century malaise, paradox of progress, blah blah blah.

Also it sounds like your grandparents had **** for lives.
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Old 05-22-2010, 09:02 PM   #481
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

dude i love rich people

but what is ridiculous is people who can easily afford an extra bedroom, cable, internet, meals out on the weekend, a car, a few vacations a year, etc. crying "I JUST CAN'T MAKE ENDS MEET!" because they are simply ****ing idiots who do **** like get bottle service and buy expensive cars and get all their groceries at whole foods.

not to politard things up, but on a micro level its exactly whats going on with state and federal governments...everyone thinks they are entitled to a bunch **** they simply cant pay for.
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Old 05-22-2010, 09:04 PM   #482
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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dude i love rich people

but what is ridiculous is people who can easily afford an extra bedroom, cable, internet, meals out on the weekend, a car, a few vacations a year, etc. crying "I JUST CAN'T MAKE ENDS MEET!" because they are simply ****ing idiots who so **** like get bottle service and but expensive cars and buy all their groceries at whole foods.

not to politard things up, but on a micro level its exactly whats going on with state and federal governments
A lot of people try to keep up a specific image, debt be damned. Its pretty pathetic, but its true. I know people that have filed for BK when they were in their mid 20's.
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Old 05-22-2010, 09:31 PM   #483
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

USC,

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Old 05-22-2010, 09:35 PM   #484
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Canadians,

Please don't take this question as insulting. If you're just reading this thread and thinking 'wow food prices in the US sound sick lower,' are you making sure to correctly convert kgs to lbs?]

EDIT: Rechecking. No, $15, even CAN$15, is still a ****load for three chicken breasts.
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Old 05-22-2010, 09:40 PM   #485
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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lol @ our generation

my grandparents fought in WWII, worked 15 hour days and were thrilled to be able to buy a small condo in florda to retire to

obviously skewed because people here are going to be richer than average, but just sickening how entitled ppl are
My parents didn't speak English when they arrived in Canada and until I was in my early-teens couldn't even communicate in bad English. They have no formal education and I'm pretty sure neither even finished high school. Yet they managed over $100k a year mostly because my dad worked a hard physical job. This is true of my uncles and most of the people my family knew. Now with the benefit of growing up here and several university degrees if I can't do better than Dad there is something really wrong with me.
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Old 05-22-2010, 09:45 PM   #486
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

dude good for you

im happy you are making money, capitalism is working as labor is being rewarded as generations pass

again, im not saying anything about the ability of people to make money, im saying that people who make enough money to live a debt free comfortable middle class lifestyle but dont because they think they are entitled to a BMW and some blow on the weekends are complete ****ing idiots

and these people, whose mentality is very common, are exactly why the country is going bankrupt.
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Old 05-22-2010, 09:46 PM   #487
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Canadians,

Please don't take this question as insulting. If you're just reading this thread and thinking 'wow food prices in the US sound sick lower,' are you making sure to correctly convert kgs to lbs?]

EDIT: Rechecking. No, $15, even CAN$15, is still a ****load for three chicken breasts.
Yes. Most things here are actually priced in both. Our food is insane compared to the States. It is hard to get prices on stuff that is not on sale since fliers only advertise deals obviously but even our sale prices are worse than US normal prices.
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Old 05-22-2010, 09:48 PM   #488
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

I just asked because that's precisely the sort of ridiculous facepalm mistake I'm a threat to build a big shrieking argument with at any given time.
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Old 05-22-2010, 10:02 PM   #489
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/econ155a-eng.htm

There use to be one just for chicken but I can't find it now.

Corn flakes 675 g -- never had corn flakes but so no idea if that is the normal size box but average price is $4.00

A dozen eggs $2.68

Butter $4.28

Prime Rib 20.21/kg

Now those are average and so include disgusting places like Price Chopper amd Food Basics.

With respect to the chicken breast price that is for boneless and skinless at Loblaws which is the biggest chain and I think if you are going to look at prices it has to be either Loblaws or Metro. No discount places and no fancy high-end places.
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Old 05-22-2010, 10:09 PM   #490
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Originally Posted by ThaSaltCracka View Post
A lot of people try to keep up a specific image, debt be damned. Its pretty pathetic, but its true. I know people that have filed for BK when they were in their mid 20's.
Agreed, people saying money is tight, but don't bring lunch to work and smoke a pack a day. Don't really for bad for them, think about things first.
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Old 05-22-2010, 10:33 PM   #491
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

for the guy who wanted a shopping list, here is mine (excluding grooming/toiletries), I eat 6 meals a day, 6 days a week, so I probably eat smaller portions than most of you guys


18 eggs (3 hard boiled egg whites per day)
precooked breakfast sausage (2 per day)
5/20$ meat (deal at sav a lot, 5 packages of various meat for 20$) packages are usually:

3 or 4 lbs of hamburger
6 chicken thighs
6 chicken legs
2 7oz strips
pork steaks (a st louis thing, but its like a pork chop)
6 or 7 cans of veggies (usually spinach or green beans)
head of lettuce (I make taco salad usually)
a couple jalapenos
a couple tomatoes (during winter, during summer I have a garden)
apples, oranges, pears
garlic, onions, artichoke hearts
eggplant (usually grill it)
mushrooms
zuchinis (sautee in some olive oil with onions/garlic)
thats like 30$ of stuff

I have the staples on hand (olive oil, etc and buy them in bulk once every two months)

I go to a fish monger for fish, and spend 10$ on 3 or 4 whole fish, and once a month, I smoke a whole pork butt or brisket (like 1.30$/lb @ 10-12 lbs) and freeze the leftovers

produce list isnt static, just depends on what i want to make for the week, and Im lucky during the summer I have access to a massive garden with fresh produce, carrots, garlic, green onions, any herb you can think off, eggplants, artichokes, all kinds of peppers, tomatoes, peaches
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Old 05-22-2010, 11:16 PM   #492
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

I feel like everyone is missing the big picture here.

Sure, the OP could save a few bucks by changing his grocery shopping habits. But while $800/month in groceries may seem high, $400/month/person for food doesn't sound high to me at all. I spend like $200/month just getting lunch at Panera Bread, and I make much less than the OP! If the OP wants to buy higher quality groceries in lieu of going to restaurants, that doesn't seem unreasonable. Neither does $1600/month rent for two people in NYC.

What is making the OP feel poor is $500/month in credit card payments. As described, he was so financially irresponsible earlier on that he nearly had to declare bankruptcy. Now he is paying for his earlier irresponsibility. As described, it sounds like this payment is going entirely toward principle and is incurring no additional interest. If this is true, he just needs to pay off the debt as planned, and he will be in much better shape. If this is actually an interest payment, he should definitely be cutting back on everything else and paying off the principle.

So it does not surprise me that the OP feels poor despite spending reasonably month-to-month. But it is not the $65K income that is causing this, but rather the large debt he already accumulated. Three years in relative poverty is just penance for past sins.
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Old 05-22-2010, 11:22 PM   #493
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

He probably should just default on the credit card debt.
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Old 05-22-2010, 11:24 PM   #494
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

I shop at Loblaws in a suburb of Toronto every week. Boneless, skinless chicken breast is $4/lb.

I used to live in one of the higher income areas of North York (I was in a ****ty apartment next to the highway, obv), and the chicken was the same price (also at Loblaws).

Either they breed super chickens in Ottawa, or Henry is smoking some serious crack.
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Old 05-22-2010, 11:27 PM   #495
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

lol canada
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Old 05-22-2010, 11:36 PM   #496
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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I shop at Loblaws in a suburb of Toronto every week. Boneless, skinless chicken breast is $4/lb.

I used to live in one of the higher income areas of North York (I was in a ****ty apartment next to the highway, obv), and the chicken was the same price (also at Loblaws).

Either they breed super chickens in Ottawa, or Henry is smoking some serious crack.
http://www.loblaws.ca/LCLOnline/flye...egoryId=400012

$8.31/kg or $3.77/lb for a club pack that is on sale for less than 1/2 price according to the ad.
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Old 05-22-2010, 11:54 PM   #497
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Your location is Iowa -- now anywhere that anyone would want to live $1600/month is not high.
No, you're simply wrong on this. I would LOVE to live in a house in Iowa that I was paying 1600 a month on. It would be an awesome house. I can't currently afford such a thing, but damn it would be a nice house.

You can trash talk Iowa all you want, but I would WAY rather live in a nice house in the country than a small dorm room in the city for the same price. For the love of god for 1600 a month I feel like I could have a piece of land with a pond I could fish on.

I'm about 90% that Henry is an incredibly elaborate gimmick account. There's simply no way that a person exists who derives so much of his value from what he spends on things.
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Old 05-23-2010, 12:10 AM   #498
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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You can trash talk Iowa all you want, but I would WAY rather live in a nice house in the country than a small dorm room in the city for the same price. For the love of god for 1600 a month I feel like I could have a piece of land with a pond I could fish on.
You might want that but you are by far in the minority. The vast majority of people do not want that.

Quote:
I'm about 90% that Henry is an incredibly elaborate gimmick account.
I find it funny that people still say **** like this despite multiple confirmations by other posters who know me in real life.
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Old 05-23-2010, 12:13 AM   #499
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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I used to think that my annual salary of $65,000 meant I was middle-class. I guess I was wrong. Maybe because I live in one of the boroughs of New York City, where the cost of living is so high, I dont know. But here I am, trying to make ends meet on my salary, and it's getting tougher and tougher. My basic debts and expenses are as follows:

$15k credit card debt, I pay $500 monthly
$1,600 monthly rent
$200 monthly phone/cable/internet
$800 monthly groceries
$350 monthly gas and car insurance

My net pay, (every 2 weeks) after federal, state, AND city taxes (plus FICA, etc.) are deducted amounts to $1,850, or $3,700 monthly. That leaves me with a whopping $250 left each month! I have nothing left to save, very little for clothes, entertainment, etc. It's getting hard for me to cope, especially since I know that in my career it will take another 10 years before I reach the top salary I can earn, which is a little over $100k.

With home prices astronomically high in the NY metro area, I don't know how I will ever be able to afford even a modest house. I feel like I'm trapped in the greatest city in the world with no money in my pocket to enjoy any of what NY has to offer. Sometimes I think I'd be better off somewhere in middle America, but I have no idea. Sorry about my venting here, I just would like to hear from some of you who are willing to share how much you make, and how on earth you were/are able to afford the so-called American dream.
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Originally Posted by runLOLArun View Post
Too lazy to edit so hear ya go

Monthly
Fruit 15/wk 60
Veggies 20/wk 80
Meat 25/wk 100
Seafood 30/wk 120
Eggs 4/wk 16
Coffee 10/month 10
Milk 3/wk 12
Olive Oil 20/month 20
Pasta 2/week 8
Bread 5/week 20
Beer 8/week 32
Wine 15/week 60
Liquor 50/month 50
Vitamins 30/month 30
Aspirin 6/month 6
Detergent 15/month 15
Dish soap 4/month 4
Body soap 3/month 3
Shampoo/Conditioner 20/month 20
Toilet Paper 5/month 5
Paper Towels 5/month 5
Light Bulbs 3/month 3
Batteries 5/month 5
Toothpaste 6/month 6
Mouthwash 12/month 12
Deodarant 6/month 6
Razor Blades 6/month 6
Shaving Cream 3/month 3
Cologne $70 (35/month) 35
Hair Gel 6/month 6

Now you see why its 800 a month!
Just grunching, semi-serious answer, semi-not. 65k/year for a single person is no problem. I think you're forgetting about taxes, so you're only really making like 52k/year.

Which means, you have about $4400/monthly (1100/week). I'm looking at your pay rate, you're saying 900ish/week or 18xx/bi-weekly.
Rough math is $862/week for your spending. So, you're blowing $75/week somewhere. If you only have $75 left out of your check per week, then you are over-spending and living outside of your means.

A quick skim of the first quote, you have $800/month in groceries and $1600/rent AND THEN you have Cable/bills utilities?
Get a cheaper place, or lose cable/phone? Cut back on what you're buying?

First of all, as a single person, I can out eat everyday(not saying $15-20/meal) and not spend $600/month. I know I can buy groceries(and have) for about $100/week and still not run out of food. So, if you're spending $800, you're doing something wrong.

Also, why is beer/wine/cologne in your grocery list? These are luxuries. Why are you buying $30/week in seafood?

I think the main thing is, OP just needs to get a clue. $65k/year is a good job, especially with benefits. Most people would kill for this kind of job.
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Old 05-23-2010, 12:15 AM   #500
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Henry,
You honestly think that if I posted the house that 1600 a month would buy in Iowa VS the apartment you could rent in NY the majority would choose the apartment?
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