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Old 05-22-2010, 01:28 PM   #401
Anacardo
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Specifically I think we are fed a crock of **** about the lifestyle we can afford on $X. Normally I find that you actually need 1.3X to 2.5X to actually do it which is likely why so many people are screwed and in heavy debt.
This is something worth discussing imo. While I've never had an exact notion of what 'should' be possible on $X0,000, $X00,000, or $X,000,000 a year, I'm sure most Americanadians under 45 would snap their heads up and take notice at what you're saying. Ex - My Dad's gigantic two-cart monthly grocery trips for a family of four in, say, 1992, would shock us if they went north of $250. In Orange County CA, 2010, with an emphasis on frozen chicken breasts, fresh produce, lots of eggs, etc, I can't make a weekly grocery run for two for less than $150 or so.

I'm sure if we ran this over to Politardz we'd get a very snappy 'oh inflation and the systematic impoverishment of the middle class, ldo, buy gold' or something, but people setting up households now must surely be stunned by costs compared to what they remember growing up.
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Old 05-22-2010, 01:30 PM   #402
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Originally Posted by Klompy View Post
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

BWAhahhahahahahhahaha
Your location is Iowa -- now anywhere that anyone would want to live $1600/month is not high.

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Originally Posted by Anacardo View Post
I could get a modest but new-ish 3 bedroom house off the 215 in Las Vegas, ten minutes to the Strip, in a nice, low-crime residential neighborhood, for like $1350/mo.
I can also buy a train station in Detroit for $1.

Last edited by Henry17; 05-22-2010 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 05-22-2010, 01:36 PM   #403
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

jesus christ RESPONDED TO A STATEMENT OF YOURS AS THOUGH YOU WERE NOT ******ED, WHOOPS.

FORGOT YOUR WHOLE 'I AM SO ****ING REFINED (chicken parmesan) THAT ONLY THE MOST EXPENSIVE AND THEREFORE BEST THINGS IN LIFE REGISTER AS NORMAL WITH ME' BIT WAS MORE IMPORTANT TO YOU THAN OXYGEN, SORRY.

WON'T BE PULLING A BONER LIKE THAT AGAIN. NO SIR.
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Old 05-22-2010, 01:41 PM   #404
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Originally Posted by ShortyTheFish View Post
IIRC, $65K falls under the 25% bracket, which mean $15-20K. That still leaves $5-10K, so what else is there that he's paying that much on?
It could be state and city taxes; NY has an income tax and NYC even has a third income tax on top of that.
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Old 05-22-2010, 01:42 PM   #405
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

You seem upset.

The only reason I used chicken parm is that I know you can buy pre-made frozen chicken parm. I don't see why (actually I do but I'm trying to be polite) you just assume that means that I see chicken parm as refined. I actually wanted to use chicken tikka masala as my example since that costs twice as much to make but I have no idea if that is widely available in pre-made frozen form.
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Old 05-22-2010, 01:44 PM   #406
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Originally Posted by legendary loser View Post
I make about the same as you and live in the DC Area where cost of living is probably similar to NYC, here are my expenses just as a comparison.

Rent: $1250 (could cut this in half if i cared to get a roommate..have a 2br apt)
is $1250/month similar to $4000+/month?
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Old 05-22-2010, 01:46 PM   #407
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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I actually wanted to use chicken tikka masala as my example since that costs twice as much to make but I have no idea if that is widely available in pre-made frozen form.
Trader Joe's. It's one of their best frozen products.

You may have heard of one of those? In between rehearsing deliberately-obtuse-for-the-sake-of-baller acts?
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Old 05-22-2010, 01:52 PM   #408
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

You can definitely buy frozen bagged boneless skinless chicken for ~$7 bucks for 2.5lbs. It's not going to be as good as the fresh stuff but it's healthy and for someone complaining about their budget this seems like a really easy sacrifice. Start shopping at Walmart instead of Whole Foods and paying 1/2 price while getting out of debt. Once you have everything paid off then go back to Whole Foods. You can also buy basic stuff in bulk online at places like amazon for way cheaper than the prices your saying.

Won't you have enough bottles of cologne after a few months that you have variety without buying new stuff. Just use the 3-4 bottles you own.

Also your supporting 2 people instead of 1 and that makes a significant difference. What does your gf do that she doesn't pay for anything?
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Old 05-22-2010, 01:54 PM   #409
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Originally Posted by Klompy View Post
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

BWAhahhahahahahhahaha
i guess this is an understandable response when your frame of reference is limited to areas where it takes an hour to rent any of 1000 cookie-cutter track apartments available for $500/month.

in manhattan, $1600/month studios barely exist. it could take 3 months to find a decent, tiny place for $2000/month. you're laughing at henry, but what he's saying is 100% accurate and there's really nothing "lol" about it...
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Old 05-22-2010, 01:57 PM   #410
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

Just want to add that like OP I support a partner, I live in the UK with a much higher tax rate (income, national insurance, VAT, council tax, plus pensions on top) than US, I'm on ~$32k gross at the moment (moving up shortly) and live very comfortably.

Unlike OP, my partner and I have no olive oil fetishes to wither our financial reserves.

I suggest OP
- leaves his girlfriend
- leaves new york
- finds cheaper fetishes than olive oil enemas and cologne baths.
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Old 05-22-2010, 02:08 PM   #411
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Originally Posted by derosnec View Post
to those who are eating for a month on $300 or so, can you break down an itemized list for me? i'm having trouble seeing how i can a have healthy and high protein (~100-150g a day) on that kind of money and do so in a way where compliance is high (e.g. if i have to spend an hour cooking in the morning, it's not gonna happen because i have to go to work and i'm not waking up at 5 am so i can cook)?

i can put together a grocery list of mac and cheese, hot pockets, rice, pasta, Eggos, bread, bologna, but that's just not gonna cut it unless i want to have gross body composition, low protein intake, and crappier long-term health.
Well, I have to admit that usually, lunch for me comes out of a box. So you definitely don't want to look at me for fine living. Nonetheless, I'll take a stab at a typical weekly trip to the grocery store for me:

1 1½-pound bag of breaded chicken tenders, good for three meals ($6)
1 box of French bread pizzas ($4)
1 loaf of bread ($3)
¾-pound smoked turkey breast ($6)
1 1½-pound package chicken breasts ($5) -- fresh, not the jumbo bags of frozen ones!
1 1½-pound package sirloin steak ($8)
assorted spices ($4): probably an overestimate, but necessary if you're eating chicken breasts that often
3 bagels ($2)
2 pounds apples ($2): every other week or so. My local grocer almost always has $1/pound sales on at least one variety of apple.
2 pounds bananas ($2): again, like every other week, so $2/week for fruit.
$5/week worth of vegetables: green beans, corn, potatoes and rice are all cheap. This is probably an overestimate; you can get a 5 lb. bag of potatoes in my area for $2.99. I'll throw pasta in here too; with all that you're probably still good with $5 or $6 a week.
$8/week worth of snack food: obv this can easily be cut out.
$6/week worth of soda: ditto
$8/week worth of toiletries

This jives well with a typical weekly food bill that I have.

That comes out to $61 a week; with my discount card, it'll probably be worth more like $51 a week. I can have fruit or a bagel for breakfast, a turkey sandwich or Something Out Of a Box™ for lunch, have three dinners of chicken and three of steak a week, with sides of (say) fresh green beans and garlic toast. So that's all my meals, minus one dinner a week, for like $225 a month, for one person. And it's loaded with extra crap, like the $60 a month in soda and snacks. So someone with more expanded food tastes can do well even on this budget. And I only have to cook dinner twice a week.
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Old 05-22-2010, 02:09 PM   #412
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Originally Posted by ryanj247 View Post
i guess this is an understandable response when your frame of reference is limited to areas where it takes an hour to rent any of 1000 cookie-cutter track apartments available for $500/month.

in manhattan, $1600/month studios barely exist. it could take 3 months to find a decent, tiny place for $2000/month. you're laughing at henry, but what he's saying is 100% accurate and there's really nothing "lol" about it...
Pretty much this.

The "$1600/month is cheap in Manhattan" thing is pretty much the only sense Henry is talking in this thread.
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Old 05-22-2010, 02:22 PM   #413
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Originally Posted by Anacardo View Post
Trader Joe's. It's one of their best frozen products.

You may have heard of one of those? In between rehearsing deliberately-obtuse-for-the-sake-of-baller acts?
I went over a decade without stepping foot inside a domestic grocery store and I'm suppose to know details about a small speciality chain in a different country?

Quote:
Originally Posted by straightaway View Post
complaining about their budget this seems like a really easy sacrifice. Start shopping at Walmart instead of Whole Foods and paying 1/2 price while getting out of debt. Once you have everything paid off then go back to Whole Foods.
I think the issue is that as someone who makes $65k he should be in a position to not have to shop at Walmart. $15k in credit card debt is bad but if I'm not mistaken the average household has credit card debt in the $11-12k range.

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Won't you have enough bottles of cologne after a few months that you have variety without buying new stuff. Just use the 3-4 bottles you own.
Actually no. Cologne changes over time (the amount of time is really dependent on the cologne and how you store it) but returning to something a year or two later is not usually an option. Especially given we are talking about him saving $100-150 a year. That isn't going to mean anything when it comes right down to it.
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Old 05-22-2010, 02:30 PM   #414
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Originally Posted by VoraciousReader View Post
You simply can't say, "well my wild salmon filet encrusted with a lemon-olive oil-fresh dill-panko breadcrumb mixture with a side of orange scented asparagus, a starter course of wild mushroom soup and my bottle of sparkling water costs more than frozen fish sticks and a can of green beans, therefore cooking from scratch costs more."
I'm not sure I disagree with you in principle. But I think you underestimate the cost of having everything on hand to make a simple meal like chicken parm. It costs a lot to have these things on hand. If I wanted to make this meal, and I didn't have any of the ingredients on hand, here's what I would need to buy:

chicken breast 5
flour 3
eggs 4
bread crumbs 2
salt 1
pepper 3
dried thyme 3
olive oil 8
parmesan 5
mozzarella 5
parsley 1
tomato sauce jar 8
spaghetti 1
basil 3

Total $52

Yes, I could choose to buy cheaper versions of some of these items, and yes, the per/meal cost is a lot lower since most of these are more than you need for this one recipe. But why bother cooking at all if all you are doing is matching the ****ty quality of frozen meals. The point remains that the cash you have to spend to make chicken parm from scratch is a lot more than the $2.50 it costs for you to buy it frozen.

Now if you're talking about making a vat of soup or plain pasta with grated cheese on it, yes, that's somewhat cheaper homemade than pre-made versions of comparable meals. But not by enough to make the extra effort worthwhile imo. If I'm going to cook, I'm going to make a better meal than that.
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Old 05-22-2010, 02:33 PM   #415
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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I actually wanted to use chicken tikka masala as my example since that costs twice as much to make but I have no idea if that is widely available in pre-made frozen form.
LOL, after Lasgane this is probably the quintessence of ready meal. Of course you wouldnt know this blah blah blah pull the other one its got bells on.
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Old 05-22-2010, 02:37 PM   #416
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

england is different than usa
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Old 05-22-2010, 02:38 PM   #417
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Originally Posted by Quicksilvre View Post
The "$1600/month is cheap in Manhattan" thing is pretty much the only sense Henry is talking in this thread.
I'd actually argue that $1600/month is normal to slightly below average for most places for a young professional couple who cares about their residence.

Saying something doesn't make sense is easy. Be specific. I actually am quite curious because I do put in effort to edit out stuff that I think people will find too much and yet I still get the same response as if I actually posted without considering that it is a young professional. To me it seems that people view anything above student lifestyle as someone trying to be an insane baller.
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Old 05-22-2010, 02:39 PM   #418
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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england is different than usa
There's a .gif out there somewhere that captures that idea perfectly, and the thought comes up around here often enough that we should have it at our disposal. Somebody get to work on a frame-by-frame review of The Patriot.
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Old 05-22-2010, 02:40 PM   #419
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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england is different than usa
Read better imo.
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Old 05-22-2010, 02:45 PM   #420
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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I'd actually argue that $1600/month is normal to slightly below average for most places for a young professional couple who cares about their residence.
Okay. At the very outset, this figure assumes that if you're young, professional, and 'care about your residence', you must live in

A) one of the (trying to over-estimate the lower bound) 30 or so most expensive cities in North America

and/or

B) live in a house, 3/2 or bigger.

These things vary. My mother's old house sold for just under $100,000 in 2006. It's 2500+ sq ft, built in 1985, full size below ground swimming pool, big yard, in a place that white Protestant Christians of average intelligence think is ****ing paradise. My current rent would buy that house outright in three years, and this house is strictly inferior to that one in almost every way.
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Old 05-22-2010, 03:05 PM   #421
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Originally Posted by Anacardo View Post
Okay. At the very outset, this figure assumes that if you're young, professional, and 'care about your residence', you must live in
I think there is plenty of evidence that OP is a young professional so it is a fair assumption. Most people care about where they live.

Quote:
A) one of the (trying to over-estimate the lower bound) 30 or so most expensive cities in North America
Generally yes. Very few professional jobs exist outside of major cities. I could want to be an investment banker who lives in Blind River but unfortunately not many options available in that general area.

Quote:
B) live in a house, 3/2 or bigger.
Actually no. I'm thinking a house would be out of the question and also not really what a young professional couple would seek. What I'm thinking is condo in a nicer building -- either a one bedroom with a den/office or a two bedroom. Something in the 900-1200sqft size. Lots of windows and open concept to make it look bigger. Modern appliances in the kitchen, no stains on the tub, sink, toilets, and newish looking. Common areas look clean and presentable. If not downtown proper still close enough to the social area that it would be a long walk or a cheap cab ride. Short commute to work. This isn't asking for a lot.
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Old 05-22-2010, 03:17 PM   #422
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1 View Post
Read better imo.
you called chicken tikka masala a "quintessence of ready meal"

besides just SOUNDING gay and english, it's just not the case in this country.
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Old 05-22-2010, 03:23 PM   #423
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

as an englishman i feel i must say i consider microwave lasagne to be the quintessence of a ready meal. perhaps bangers and mash if you wish to be native.

with a cup of tea in both cases.

Last edited by Peter Harris; 05-22-2010 at 03:24 PM. Reason: in b4 are you gay and english otherwise your opinion doesn't count
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Old 05-22-2010, 03:31 PM   #424
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

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Originally Posted by ryanj247 View Post
is $1250/month similar to $4000+/month?
he's not paying 4000 a month
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Old 05-22-2010, 03:32 PM   #425
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Re: Does earning $65k per year mean you're poor?

$800 a month in groceries seems like a lot for just yourself.

You could consider finding a place that is less than $1600 a month.

Your credit card debt is a problem, $15k is quite a lot and you're not making much of a dent in it.

You certainly aren't poor, you make well more than the average person in this country, you simply need to allocate your funds better. Life in NY is tough when it comes to cost of living.
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