ya but you can catch your own fish and hunt your own game!

I can do that with an xbox

That they are happy is just a matter of adapting. No matter how bad something if people are stuck in that position they are happy. It is just what happens.

Depends on how you define poor. I personally wouldn't have started a topic like this but if I had I wouldn't use the term poor since most people tend to use poor in a very objective sense (or at least they think they do but it is actually a lot more subjective to their own status). That being said there is also a way to define poor that is based on the ability to meet the expectations of your peer group. I think that is what OP is talking about -- it certainly is what I am talking about. There is plenty of stuff on OP's list that is a luxury by a $30k/year person's standard but there is nothing on that list that would be considered a luxury by middle class standards and yet he is struggling.

You don't have to be poor to be thrifty -- lots of people are cheap but that is a conscious choice. If being thrifty is imposed on you by necessity then you are poor assuming your wants are reasonable for your income.

What if they pack their lunch but don't shop for cloths at second-hand stores -- can they complain about money being tight? There is always something else that can be done or sacrificed to make living less expensive -- at what point do we allow people to complain?

Not unexpectedly I tend to find that most people draw the line of what it is reasonable to expect of others just under their own social status.

Why are there dozens upon dozens of mentions of Wal-Mart in a thread about NYC?

I would hope they would choose to live in NYC if they were younger and without a family (even older or with a family shouldn't matter that much, Iowa? WTF is there to do?)

This situation depends a lot on what type of person you are. I have plenty of friends who would be content living in either boring suburbs, or rural areas with lots of space...i don't understand either at this point in my life.

i gotta agree!

Wow, people can be stupid.

You can buy a house for $800k in NY, or the same house in Kansas for $225k. Why doesn't everyone buy their houses in the midwest? It's not like there are any other factors on where one lives, right?

NYers also shouldn't have cars, unless there are extenuating circumstances that make you have one. Like you have to travel with it for work. Or something weird. I don't get the sense that one exists here.

I hardly think olive oil and cologne are luxury items. But if you're paying top dollar for them, and it seems that you are, then you shouldn't be using them so frequently like it's regular vegetable oil and air freshener.

Relatively speaking, OP's in a pretty good financial state. He is working on clearing his credit card debt, and will do so in 1-3 years if he doesn't use his card. He is supporting someone else, and I won't tell a man not to fully support someone he cares about. I hope he plans on marrying this woman though for all the support he is providing. Well, some of you might think marrying this woman will be the worst thing, actually. Whichever.

I hope your job has upward mobility as well. If this salary is frozen, then you will run into trouble. If you plan on hitting some raises, and perhaps some promotions in your future, living in NY will be pretty cool.

You definitely don't need 100k to live "comfortably" as a single person in New York. I realize the word is subjective, but that is ridiculous.

Obviously the first sentence is a bit circular. Part of the reason NYC is so expensive is because everyone wants to live there. So the reason they don't move because it's expensive is because... they want to live there.

Lastly, I will say again that I think that, when NYC is discussed, people really underestimate the costs incurred by having a car. Buying/leasing one, insurance, repairs, gas, parking, tilt factor/hassle... that's a lot of money per year, vs. ~$1100 for an unlimited subway pass.

I posted on this earlier, stating that OP can't possibly go to a WalMart if he lives in Manhattan itself, and no one responded.

This would depend on your definition of "NY'er". Someone living in Manhattan, working there, with little in terms of family or friends that live outside of Manhattan? No, you don't need a car. Living in Brooklyn and working in Brooklyn, Queens or Manhattan? You could manage with no car. Live like I do in Staten Island, or someone else in Long Island etc? Car is a necessity.

I live in a suburb of Helena.

NYC is definitely expensive, but you are nowhere near "poor". As others have said, you just need to trim down certain expenses, get rid of others, and pay off the credit card. You could move further out, but I understand the draw of the City. It's fun and exciting, even if you can't afford many of the extras. Still, you cannot afford to participate in all the nice City goodies anyway-- those great restaurants and shows and clubs are out of your budget. If you are going out and spending, then change that to free activities -- movies and shows in the Park, free concerts at lunch, museums.

OK, strike the bit about getting the card paid off. Missed the post where you worked out a deal with the card company. Yes, you'll get it paid off. Good for you for not going the bankruptcy route. I assume that you are no longer buying the girlfriend expensive gifts and that she is paying her share of the home costs. (If you are spending half the money you earn on the apartment, she should, too.)

And while you still own the car (today), get out to the boonies and buy toilet paper, paper towels, light bulbs and various long-term foodstuffs in bulk at Walmart or Costco or such places. Sell the car tomorrow. There are lots of used car stores in Queens -- someone will take it off your hands and give you money.

And when you sell the car, be sure to turn in the plates to DMV and let them know it's sold. (If they don't know and don't get the plates, it turns into a mess.) Cancel the insurance. You are gonna save a lot not having a car in NYC.

You would think differently if you ever got out of Iowa.

OP you a poker player or what?????You live in a borough?You should have 5 different people that sell you their EBT card every month.

for people too stupid or lazy to read:

op is on a 0 interest payment plan with his cc company.

Only 30% of Americans live in cities. About 20% live in rural areas and the rest live in suburbs. I dunno about Canada, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a similar breakdown. It seems as though the Klompys of North America outnumber the Henrys by a solid margin--and yes, I realize there's a difference between suburbs and truly rural areas. While Henry's "82% of Americans live in metro areas" is true, a majority of these are people in suburbia with 1,500+ square foot houses, two cars, a three-mile trip to the grocery store, no public transportation, and not a whole lot of high culture.

I was starting to think my grasp of the obvious was broken and Henry knew what he was talking about.

Best exchange of the thread so far, imo

Living in Colorado Springs was, by far, the best place I've ever lived. So much so that I will never consider living in a place like NYC.

You can call it whatever -- nobody wants to live in the mid-west which is what what we are discussing. I see living in the suburbs of a major city as sucking but nowhere as much as living in Iowa. Are you just trying to be disingenuous or do you actually lack the ability to see that living in a suburb is a lot more like living in a city than rural living?

I found this cost of living comparison tool pretty interesting.

http://cgi.money.cnn.com/tools/costo...tofliving.html

I am too lazy to find out if the figures they use are accurate, but the OP could cut his cost of living expenses by ~1/3 simply by moving about 20 minutes outside the city.

I put in my area of NJ (30 minute train commute to Penn Station) and compared it to living in Manhattan, and it says that a comparable salary to $65,000 living in NJ would be $109,000. Even factoring in $500 a month for commuting expenses and an hour a day longer commuting time, it seems like an easy trade off to cut living expenses by a third

I am not saying OP should move to Iowa. Indeed, between buying a bottle of $70 cologne every other month and buying cold-pressed organic olive oil, OP clearly has an idea of how he wants to live. In that case, he has to work harder to make it work budget-wise.

My issue is that you seem to be saying that most people want to live in places where small apartments cost $1600 a month. That is clearly not the case. Enough people do in order to push the price up to $1600 a month, of course. However, several posters are pointing out that OP can make a huge cut in his monthly rent by just moving 20 minutes away. The main issue of all of this is that OP is complaining about his lack of money, when he has cheaper options readily available. If he prefers not to make use of these options, then he really can't complain.

Not being from NYC I have no idea what the rental market is like. What I said is that $1600/month is not a lot for a decent apartment. It would be an effort to find one in my city for that price. That isn't using my standards as that would make it considerably more but just using what I would expect as a young professional couple they would want and expect.

To all those saying poor is relative, it's not. Poor is poor. That's why they even calculate a set line, in the world overall and in your home country, which is called the ****ing POVERTY LINE.

If you're above it, you're not poor. You might not be rich, but you sure aren't POOR.

Then again, not being poor is not exactly life's goal. We all aim for higher. But we beat the poor line (at least we hope to).

A lot of poverty line definitions are actually relative -- I know this is the case in Canada where poverty groups will define poor as a percentage of the median income for an area. I don't agree with this since that isn't measuring poverty so much as income inequality but that is how they do it.

I think OP choosing poor was an unfortunate choice of terms but I don't think it is absurd to talk about people who make a lot of money being financially uncomfortable despite making a lot of money.