I'll even speculate that after losing at poker he tries to win his money back at the pits and loses even more. oO!

Ah... the ole hero or zero routine resulting in a 42hr roller coaster of robusto/busto and trying to muster up an answer when asked on Monday, "So, what did you do this weekend?"

"I went grocery shopping. Lots of groceries..."

So you live in the greatest city in America (IMO), have a job, internet, cable, a gf , car, eat good, have your own place, ect.. Should I start playing my violin now?

Millions of people all across the US are in the same spot or much worse, and they live in nowhere, USA. If you want to barley get by in the Midwest more power to you, but its not going to change a thing besides the scenery.

He doesn't have a boat, a private jet, or anything!

1. Get a roommate
2. Invest in boxes of ramen
3. ???
4. Profit

I just skipped from 2-8 and saw the same joke repeated.

missed the alcohol inclusion.

I can understand the total more with that included.

Didn't wade through the whole thread but 65k a year puts you in the 99th in terms of income compared to the rest of the world. Guess it depends on OPs definition of poor.

Wow food is sooo cheap in usa. In canada, I spend nearly 400$ a month for 1 person and I almost only shop at the super market and buy the cheapest brands. Maybe going out 1x a week to cheap restaurants

If your GF were 50 pounds overweight and you had a gambling problem you'd be drinking a lot of liquor too.

For most stuff, yes, but there are a couple categories of things that you don't need the membership for, one of which is booze. You can walk in and buy all the alcohol you want without a membership.

The last time I did it not even the employees knew about it, they had to call their manager over to let me buy it.

Sell the car, and use the money to pay off CC debt.
Get rid of the cable and stop spending so much on eating, and use the money to pay off the CC debt.
If possible, get a PT job and......

Does that stand for 'excetera'

zzzzz, do you not get bored of constantly coming into threads just to troll henry?

LOL @ plentiful groceries costing $300. And things are supposed to be much cheaper over here than the expensive rich countries? I spend like $200 a month on nothing but food, and it's just really basic stuff.

yeah because henry posted in this thread before i did

I don't actually think you are trolling me but I am curious of what you think is "pure lol" given my main points have been

1) That food costs are very much geography based and so that people outside his area are not necessarily equipped to judge.

2) That food costs are diet based. That cooking actual meals where you use individual ingredients plus maybe have a side dish or an appetizer is more expensive than just heating up stuff that comes out of a box. That individuals criticizing his food budget likely eat like the latter.

3) That $1600/month for rent is not expensive or anything even close to luxury and that since we are talking NYC it is likely just a normal (even below average) place.

4) That 400sqft is not something most people would find acceptable.

So which of these is "pure lol" as well as your reasoning for thinking so would be greatly appreciated.

Henry,
#2
For starters you seem to have incredibly limited view of ingredients this is likely correlated with the fact that you eat like an 8 year old. Fresh food is generally of much higher quality than frozen food. There is no reason that two dishes composed of the same basic ingredients should be of similar quality especially when one if fresh and one is frozen.

Secondly you seem to have no idea how much groceries cost. I live in Toronto/Montreal and frequently shop at higher end grocery stores and it would take a ton of work to make something like chicken parm for $20-30*, but you are saying this as if it is some self-evident fact.

Yeah I'm more and more on Henry's side in this as time goes on. I'll go back to thinking that poor is a relative term, and that the solutions for getting our OP to positive cash flow are what I would consider poor.

400 square feet is absurd. I'd rather move to a forest, build myself a hut, and grow berries than pay $1600 a month for the privilege of living in a place that small. Budget shopping lists would make me feel poor.

I'm kinda in the daryn camp where I don't budget, I just buy whatever and end up having more money than I need to do so. I gotta "save up" for certain things that I don't mind saving for (like cars, or anything that costs over $10k or so) and I find that reasonable.

The fact that 99% of my purchases are just made without a second thought, some of them on a random whim, and that I don't have to plan for them or go into debt to make them make me feel comfortable. Not rich to the point where I can buy planes and castles like Henry17, but to the point where I'm comfortable and content. If I had to plan out things like grocery lists to get $500 a month in savings I would feel poor, no matter how I compared to the rest of the country.

And if I, I guess, really really wanted to buy airplanes or Ferraris all the time I would feel poor as I am. Luckily my tastes fall well within my earning capacity so I feel fine.

Is "poor" not a relative thing?

If the normal things that you want to be able to buy "whenever" turn your cash flow negative, I'd say that you'd feel poor. The options would be to make more money, or change your tastes. Finding budget ways to trick yourself into thinking that you're living the life you want does not make you "un-poor," it just tricks you into feeling that way.

As one of the ones who was criticizing his food budget, I think it's pretty obvious that I wasn't advocating buying frozen, processed foods. Maybe some of the people just saying "LOL $800" were, but not me. I was criticizing his grocery list for the expensive seafood and meat and for spending too much on alcohol and personal care products. I said he pretty obviously likes a number of expensive things (I mean, come on, he buys a new cologne every couple of months for "variety"), and he agreed with me that he has somewhat expensive taste for his income. It doesn't seem like he's willing to give up the expensive seafood, but then that's not a decision that actually poor people can even make.

are you really trying to say that it's more expensive to cook your own meals with fresh ingredients then to heat up a frozen dinner? LOL for the same price as a stouffer's microwave lasagna I can make an ENTIRE lasagna that feeds 3 or 4 people, not to mention it would taste a lot better

I'm not going to disagree that one is of higher quality than the other. That is my point -- that fresh food is better but also costs more.

Toronto is actually cheaper than Ottawa but I don't know by how much. Stats Canada actually keeps stats on chicken prices so it isn't hard to confirm. That being said what is the price for the Maple Leaf skinless boneless chicken breast at Loblaws? Typically when it is not on sale it is over $20/kg in Ottawa -- I don't grocery shop all that much but I believe $21-22/kg is the normal non-sale price. I know that typically when I buy chicken breasts three of them comes out to $15.

So $15 just for the chicken now we still need everything else. Cheese isn't cheap. I have no idea how much it costs but I know a small thing of parmesan is over $10 and might be close to $20. Mozzarella non-grated just big brand name non-fancy stuff is $6-7 for the big size. Obviously you are not using all of this but figure $1 for each sounds reasonable. Bread crumbs, eggs, milk, onion, garlic, oregano, sugar, pepper, salt, butter, olive oil -- say $2 for the lot. $1 for heavy cream and $1 for tomatoes. Now you still need pasta, garlic bread, and maybe a bottle of San Pallegrino. I don't eat salads but maybe a small salad for the GF -- maybe brushetta for an app. I'm not even considering a bottle of wine. I'm don't cook much but I'm happy to run an experiment where I'll let you pick the meal out of the handful I do cook and I'll go and buy everything at Loblaws or Metro other than spices (or other stuff that does not spoil and which you use less than 50% of a standard package) and scan the receipt. I assure you that there is nothing of the small list of dishes that I make that will be under $20.

I don't understand how you consider yourself poor when your monthly bills add up to just over $40K per year and you make $65K. What exactly are you doing with the remaining ~$25K?

That is a different argument but I still disagree. I'm slightly older but growing up I was basically under the impression that $80k/year was a lot of money. Even now as an adult I still know what the average person makes thanks to handy little stats the government puts out. I don't think being able to have the occasional drink and maybe buying the better personal care products from the grocery store is absurd for someone making double the average income. If he was drinking cognac and buying $20 shave gel then yeah I can see why people would attach him but his stuff (with the exception of the olive oil) is pretty much what I would expect for middle class.

You don't need to but yes the cologne should change with the season. Again though this is only a luxury based on perspective. If you think hey I made it and I'm making double the average than not having something above the necessities is going to make you feel poor.

I'm not defending his thinking he is poor. That is an awful choice of words. My income fluctuates by a lot but even on the lowest I'm still making a lot more than OP and especially the last couple of years where things have been less abundant I do find myself thinking about afford-ability of lifestyle. Specifically I think we are fed a crock of **** about the lifestyle we can afford on $X. Normally I find that you actually need 1.3X to 2.5X to actually do it which is likely why so many people are screwed and in heavy debt. The second question is that I don't understand how the average and below average person manages and I figure it is though massive sacrifice and just dealing with it. In a sense that makes a post like OP seem rather douchy and while I sometimes think these things I know better than to openly talk about them.

Yes. I'll make you the same offer. You can pick between the list of meals I make and Ill buy all the ingredients and scan the receipt.

taxes?