Would be nice to see a SW show for its grown up fans.

The upcoming Andor show has a chance to be that, but I'm sure Disney won't be able to help themselves, and try to avoid alienating any age group...and as a result no group will really love it. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Acolyte sounds like it should be pretty “adult.”

Think you are being a bit harsh here, Mando was very very popular.

Bobbo Fet was a great chance to go older audience but we got biker gangs and hardly any Bobbo. I still liked it coz lazers and robots.

I think the overall premise was very well done. In other words, we get to see a surrogate father gradually bond with a child under their protection. It was written very maturely with a great deal of care, and as a result when Luke turned up at the end of S2, it really delivered emotionally.

Of course, we can talk about how that was all undone by Disney at the first opportunity before we even get to Mando S3. However, those two seasons, while not great, were as good as anything post RotJ.

I think we just have to accept that at this point, we are not going to get any more decent Star Wars.

I'm definitely nowhere near as negative on post-ROTJ Star Wars. As indicated, I think the series we're getting right now is better than decent. Episode IX is the only thing I've seen that I regard as truly bad (with all due disrespect to Episode II).

If I thought we weren't getting anything else that was at least decent, I would surely just quit watching future releases.

Yeah I mean I didn't hate Mando or anything and I don't begrudge anyone for enjoying it, it's just not something I found particularly entertaining at all, and has zero rewatchability for me.

I don't even think it's unreasonable for you to say it was the best thing post ROTJ since the only thing really standing in between is probably R1, so if you really disliked the flaws in that movie maybe it's not on your short list. But to me, Mando is like...12 notches lower than either of those movies, so even saying it's the "next best thing" doesn't mean much.

Yeah I'm much more bearish on the franchise than you for sure. For me Episode VII was passable but retroactively made worse because none of its plot points went anywhere, VIII was an actual insult to the fans, and IX was nonsensical garbage. R1 is solid for me, Solo was actually not terrible but mostly due to zero expectations, and then none of the TV series have landed at all for me. I'll check out Andor but if it's bad, I'm probably done.

Episode VII I agree was passable (though primarily existed to be a poor man's Episode IV), I actually really liked Episode VIII, but even to the extent that there were positives in those movies, it felt like Episode IX just obliterated the trilogy by being terrible; "somehow, Palpatine returned" will echo in eternity. And it's tough to get motivated to try to appreciate VII or VIII on rewatch (I've only seen them once each) when they don't really stand alone and were just leading into a bad ending. We clearly have different thoughts on VIII, but it sounds like IX might cause us to land in functionally the same place when it comes to that sequel trilogy.

I thought Rogue One was great.

With regard to VIII, I have a tougher time wrapping my head around why some people seem to really dig it, there are a lot of things that just really don't sit well with me. Not even getting too much into the philosophical aspect of it (like IMO it's all well and good to try to deconstruct the hero/villain themes, the time to do it isn't in the penultimate episode of a huge saga where it brings the ongoing plot to a screeching halt, I'll just leave it at that), the big problems to me were:

--The tone and humor were abysmal and didn't feel anything like Star Wars.
--Soooooo many things made zero sense, from the opening battle, to the logistics of the ongoing chase scene, to the physics of Holdo's little stunt at the end, it was clear that Johnson and the writers had that attitude that "the audience are dumb sheep, just make it look cool and don't worry about it, only a few nerds will complain". I feel this exact same thing happening with Kenobi.
--The movie isn't even internally consistent with its messages. Holdo sacrifices herself for the fleet and is hailed as a hero. Like five minutes later Finn tries to do the same thing and gets scolded by his new gf because "we save the things we love". Huh?

agreed but it's unlikely to ever happen, the reason why lucas could just retire and do whatever the f he wanted to after star wars was because he tapped in on something huge called merchandizing

he is beloved by everyone, yet has done the industry great harm - showing how easy it is to manipulate children and that you can turn their shows into advertising platforms for merchandise and forever ensuring whether a children's show or movie gets greenlit is based mostly on what merchandise sales the studio expects out of it

marvel wasn't good at the merchandise game, disney was and bought marvel for 4 billion and it's now worth 53 billion

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dawnchm...o-walt-disney/

disney made 10 billion alone in royalties from marvel merchandise in the 10 years since the purchase

in that time from the films they've grossed a total of 7 billion

but... the real kicker is of film gross, it's estimated that only 25% more or less is their profit margin

meanwhile in merchandise, disney is not manufacturing, marketing, nor selling that merch for the most part. so the margins are significantly higher on that 10 billion where besides the small amount they do in house and administrative costs it's mostly pure profit


lucas invented this model, disney perfected it - we're never getting adult oriented star wars, at some point during the greenlight process an exec realizes they'll sell a whole lot more figurines to 50 year old buying for their kids than buying for themselves and ask them to alter the show to accomodate that economic reality

this is why spaceballs exists, lucas is normally extremely protective of his ip and infamously litigious but still greenlit spaceballs without any royalty fees etc, lucas' special effects companies even helped create the film, but he absolutely made sure mel brooks had a contract that absolutely forbid him to create any merchandise of any kind

lucas thought spaceballs could help reboot interest in his merch sales and didn't want some grandma buying a pizza the hut for their grandkids when a jabba the hut was available

it's the entire reason why this scene was written into the film

I did find it amusing when Obi-Wan and Leia hit the meeting point and Obi-Wan immediately rage-quits the mission.

Obi-Wan: Nobody is here.
Leia: Maybe —
Obi-Wan: NO, LEIA, WE WERE LIED TO AND NOBODY IS COMING! **** THIS!

Dude, you were the no-show for this meeting until about 8 seconds ago.

The the point it is to demonstrate how full of paranoia, doubt and scepticism Obi is.

Yeah, one thing I think this show is doing really well is telling the story of a PTSD Obi Wan. At least compared to the usually Disney writing where these things are clearly spelled out for the audience:

Leia: Obi Wan, why are you not a very good jedi?
OW: I can't forget my fight with Anakin. I dream about it a lot, and wish I could have done things differently.
Leia: So...you have PTSD?
OW: Yes, that's it... I HAVE PTSD. [Ewan looks at the camera] THAT IS WHY MY PERFORMANCE IN THIS TV SHOW IS DIFFFERENT FROM THE MOVIES.

Helps you have a great actor I guess, which makes me wonder if PTSD Obi Wan was really written that way, or whether McGregor is just selling it with his acting chops.

Thought the 4th episode was terrible.

I don't quite have it as "terrible," but I didn't like it much. It was clearly the weakest episode so far.

The 4th episode had some great ideas and I really enjoyed the scene with the glass. However, it was the episode more than any other that highlighted the problems with the series:

-The Leia/Obi Wan bond is woat. It's just a copy/paste of Mandalorian and causes serious problems with ANH as Leia doesn't gaf wrt to Obi Wan's death.
-Obi Wan suddenly becoming much stronger with the force makes little sense.
-Reva's character and actor are both awful.
-Pacing. it's either non-existent (ep.1) or rushed leaving plot points unexplained (ep.4)

They could have made this series much better by cutting Reva, having Leia as a McGuffin and the series being focused on Obi Wan and woat snakes mother who have good chemistry. Obi Wan rediscovering the force as they go on adventures and their relationship develops would be a much better direction.

Butnah, stupid kids ftw.

haven't seen the 4th episode yet, but thought the 3rd was pretty fantastic

Put my thoughts in spoilers just in case mmmmm has not got eye balls on this hot trash yet.

I think the point is that Obi-Wan is supposed to be weak and slow but with the force works like muscle memory or something and he can of course still kill a bunch of Stormtroopers easily.

Agree with Elrazor that the Leia stuff feels shoehorned and doesn’t quite work. We already know more or less what happens to Obi…etc etc.

Could be nitpicky, but Vader’s voice and delivery isn’t quite doing it for me either. Once you know it’s an AI technology splicing together and vomiting out its best impression of James Earl Jones it becomes distracting to me.

The problems is he's been in far easier spots and not used the force. The idea of his losing his faith is a good one (similar to Luke in TLJ), but they spend too much time on other characters to really develop this aspect and how he overcomes it. Other than when the plot needs him to.

Yea but it felt like he was returning tennis serves from a 10 year old not batting back deadly lazers.

I wouldn't really be bothered by the problems with Episode 4 if this were a longer season of TV - I would write it off as kind of a wasted episode and move on to the next, which happens with good shows all the time - but we're officially at the 2/3 mark, and it led me to a place where I don't know what immediate story this series is really telling. I welcomed Leia's involvement at first, but I hoped she would be shown the door at Episode 3 and we could move on to advancing the larger plot. Now...it seems like that just IS the main plot? Tough not to feel underwhelmed by that. Since it's a limited series and isn't designated as a season 1 (even though season 2 sounds possible), it can't just be building to a cliffhanger.

Hopefully the last two episodes are great and this was just a minor bump along the way, but the six-episode limitation does mean that it's a lot harder to just give out a mulligan when an episode doesn't deliver.

For the R1 fans out there, just got done working on GE's new movie. Really good concept near future thing. Have to wait until the edit is done and probably won't hit the screens until 2 years from now but keep an eye out. Has some good potential.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11858890/