Yea, i concur. Lotta thetan energy itt. Need to consult my local scientology chapter.

Agreed, seek counseling by yourself OP you have issues...

He's blunt but he's got a point.

I don't think Truthsayer is a Scientologist. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...12&postcount=9

I think Truthsayer suffers from BPD.

I had seen her in the gym a couple of times before we first really talked, and we exchanged smiles, but I really didn't think anything of it, because I thought she was out of my league. The funny thing about it was that when I went on the cross-trainer next to her, I didn't do it to hit on her or anything, or try any stupid line that I might use in a bar, because I don't really have the confidence to do that, espicially in a gym where I am sure that tonnes of much bigger and much more confident and successful dudes have hit on her.


She was actually the one that struck up a conversation with me by complimenting the Beastie Boys T-Shirt I was wearing, and we started talking music, I introduced myself officially and vice versa and it just expanded from there. It was so easy talking to her, and after half an hour-(which seriously felt like 5 minutes), she gave me her number, and I called her back like an hour later-(yeah, I know how desperate that looked) and I asked her if she wanted to go rock-climbing with me the next day, and we continued to hit it off from there.


It's also the reason why I feel that some of you that say that she doesn't accept me for me, might be wrong. Why would she choose me over a more successful guy if she didn't accept me for me? It doesn't really add up.



Anyway, I'm going to book a session tommorrow with a seperate therapist to talk, but I am not sure if I am going to tell my gf that I am going to do that, because I am worried she is going to insist on coming or telling me not too go, so I am thinking I should probably keep it private, and work it out on my own.

If you saw the therapist before she can come with you and the therapist can ask to see you only. I would be more worried that she ll use that as a way to put the blame on you saying that you are the one with a problem and not her. But to be honest whatever you decide she ll twist to fit the fantasy in her head where her behavior is normal while you are the root of all problems.

She might have thought you were weak and pathetic and could be manipulated while guys in her league would just dump her like the trash she effectively is. I mean this in the nicest possible way. You need to think about people's intentions when they clearly don't make sense.

Jesus Christ, that's a bit harsh. She isn't trash AT ALL. And I disagree that her intentions "clearly don't make sense", we both have a lot in common and I think we both clicked more and more as time moved on because neither of us have ever really had a partner that accepted us, and we have both had a crap upbringing. It's not like I am an out-of-shape slob or socially inept either.

Well, it looks like OP took it in the nicest possible way so, Success!

When his testicles descend he'll just tell you to **** off.

I'll take on the bolded part. I don't think anyone claimed she doesn't accept you. I'm quite certain she does. She does, b/c you don't really matter to her. What matters is that you care for her and her needs. You could probably be a lowlife POS and she'd accept you, but that's b/c it has nothing to do with you and all about her. What I said earlier itt is that she doesn't care about you. And I assure you that that is indeed the case. The second you stop being of use to her and her needs is the second she throws you away.

Also, I'm going to echo capone here and say that she probably avoids very successful, secure guys. She knows they have tons of options and are much harder to manipulate. No one is trying to be harsh, OP. We're just telling you the honest way it looks. I think many people itt are doing God's work here and are really trying to save you from this situation. Many of us have been through this and have far more understanding of and direct experience with BPD than you do. The reality is that you have claimed you have your own issues, you had an emotionally abusive childhood, and have seemed to suffer from depression. You've been pretty frank about all that and I commend you for that.

Regardless of all those things and what capone said, the reality of the situation is that you have indeed allowed yourself to be manipulated by a BPD. That's where you're at. I doubt a super successful, attractive, well educated, and emotionally well-adjusted guy finds himself in that situation. I'm pretty sure she knows that. I'm also 100% convinced that she's not out of your league. You're out of her league. And I'm not just trying to be cute or make you feel better. You can seriously throw a rock out the window and hit someone better than her.

I would not tell her anything about seeing a therapist. As a rule, you should tell her as little about your life as possible and share as little of your life with her as possible. Anything you give her will at some point be used against you.

Finally, I want you to reflect on the fact that you feel it's best to keep that from your gf (and you're right to do so). Do you honestly want to be in a relationship in which you feel you have to hide things from her that no one should have to? Do you really want to be in a relationship in which you can't be yourself around her? This is exactly what I'm talking about. It starts off small and then next thing you know you're gone. It's just her and taking care of all her needs. You no longer have friends or anything outside of her. Do you really think this is a good relationship?

And since it would be pretty pointless to have that kind of relationship..

I would say someone with this disease, as echoed by dalerobk2, is probably below your league, significantly below. What I was more referring to was her intentions. Why someone, who you perceive is ridiculously out of your attractiveness range, would some reason fall for you especially when you mention how freaked you were to initially talk to her. While you might be lucky, what it would indicate to me something is a little up with her. Of course she is going to tell you, you are the only one that understands me. That's her play. I feel sorry for you. As I said, if she was with someone who is normal, they would drop her quickly b/c she isn't very normal.

For instance, I used to love Heidi Klum (or let's use Kate Upton). I'm a marginally successful person who is decent looking but not amazing and would stutter and freak out if I ever spoke to her. If I did go up to her and she wanted to sleep with me or at least be with me the moment I met her, I would really wonder WTF is up with the woman. Is she just a slut, or why am I so lucky. Most people typically get people in their range. While I've met those who are fortunate, it's typically b/c they are insanely rich, insanely powerful, or something while you have none of those qualities. You even admit, you aren't even that smooth.

I guess you have the same interests and that's what clicked. I'd imagine it could be something else as well. I hope I'm completely wrong. You obviously don't want to hear anything bad.

I personally don't have any experience with BPD but I'm just trying to echo what I've read in this thread and elsewhere (b/c if I did get near a person like this I would run like the plague). And you obviously don't really want to hear it. So continue to **** her brains out. Continue to be manipulated. And don't come whining her when she crushes you. Maybe you'll be the lucky one that some how converted a BPD person. I'm not sure why you are so special and I'm not sure why she is so special. I'd laugh if the moment she get's cured that she doesn't try to find a mate that is properly in her range.

dalerobk, have you actually met this girl? You're making categorical statements about someone you don't even know. I agree that what you say applies to many BPDs, but there are many it doesn't apply to.

OP, realize that this thread has been taken over by a few very loud people absolutely convinced of their own correctness:

- Therapists with serious personal issues themselves, who don't even know the basic research
- People who have experienced chronic BPDs themselves, from which they're generalizing categorical statements that may not be true.
- Young lonely males with a narrow view of life, love and relationships.

Count the categorical statements in dalerobk's post above, about someone he's never met:

Does this sound like someone with an agenda? Obviously a lot of the people giving you this kind of advice have had experiences that ended badly. They then generalize that into the whole world and everyone with BPD, which is an extremely wide disorder with outcomes that range from the hopeless to the manageable to the soon to go into remission.

I'd recommend you visit a forum like this one: http://www.bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php so that you can see a range of views, happy and sad stories, and get a less one sided view of the situation. It's like the 2+2 of BPD partners and strategy.

This comment, from "Is it possible to live a happy life with an untreated bpd", probably sums it up well:
The forum goes into details about treatment, success stories (and there are many, plus many more failures), what you can do, how and what therapy works, etc. Much better than here, and listening to all the burnt people who want to save you and actually know very little about you, your gf, BPD, and what's possible and not.

Good luck.

Truthsayer,

I'm trying to understand what your agenda is. Have you been diagnosed with BPD or some other PD? Have you "cured" someone with BPD or a PD? Are you a scientolgist? Why are you so emotionally vested in this one particular stance of yours? I'm curious.

Can you describe the BPD range? Like do you have any idea what it is? Is it 99% unsavable or 20% savable? I just started reading the website you put out and what I've read sounds like a train wreck. I'm reading the success stories part of the board, which is better than the rest--at the same time, why get yourself in the middle of a train wreck if you can avoid it? I guess some people just like severe pain. The guy has 4 months in of sunk costs and a few months of likely pain from a breakup. But I'm pretty sure that's better than most of the horror stories from that site you just posted.

A lot of people are giving terrible advice. SGT RJ was what got me interested (her opinion was dead wrong and she should know better), so I followed up.
No, I'm perfectly sane and normal, at least as far as psychiatry is concerned
Hell no. I've had friends with very similar symptoms/personalities I've helped though, and no, not with e-meters.
No, I'm the very opposite. I view the the narratives and treatments of psychology as pseudoscience and religion on par with Scientology, and most of their practitioners are terrible thinkers who do net harm at significant cost. However, certain things work - CBT for example (and despite what people have said, CBT and its offshoots are the best treatment for BPD), lithium for bipolar control, a handful of anti-psychotics for symptom control, so I'm not 100% against its products. And there are a minority of competent therapists.

Psychiatry pretends they can treat things they can't. The reality is that most mental illnesses are completely untreatable and not at all understood. This is papered over with widely accepted narratives without any scientific support, such as "low serotonin" as causing depression, and antidepressants fixing it. Or that non-CBT therapy can help. These narratives are pure quackery, on par with smoke balls or snake oil or bloodletting. BPD, happily, does have viable treatments. Unfortunately there isn't much research, but the odds are good that treatment is probably significantly above spontaneous remission rates, which it isn't for most things. Overall, I have a view of psychiatry similar to several Harvard psychiatry professors who are strong critics of it, such as Peter Breggin and Marcia Engel, former editor of the New England Journal of Medicine. History will prove their view correct, without question.

I dislike seeing people like SGT RJ holding forth authoritatively on topics they have zero understanding of and contradicting published science. It's someone's life. Making categorical untrue statements is harmful, and she's going to be in a position to do a lot of harm.

Anyway, this thread is fun so I'll bow out, there's not much more to say.

Yeah, it's pretty entertaining. I don't know what the numbers are, but the research seems very at much at odds with what's being said in this thread.

Most of the success stories are from women talking bout their BPD husbands. I understand the skew on 2+2 though.

Well Truthsayer, we certainly do disagree, lol.

You are completely wrong on SGT RJ. She has finished her dissertation (and classwork) in the field, which by definition means she has read a huge amount of relevant research. The preparation for for the dissertation alone, begins with the reading of five to ten studies for every one used in the writing itself.

Add in all relevant class reading, texts, coursework and hands on experience and it is difficult for me to see how you can denigrate her knowledge so easily. It does interest me that you are not a Scientologist, because you have the same flaws in logic that they do when it comes to the topic.

On a separate note (and this is not addressed to Truthsayer), I do not agree that people with a mental illness are "trash". Many (if not most) of these people have well documented reasons for being the way they are today. I worked with hundreds of children who were scarred emotionally because of the terrible things that happened to them in their past. Those with mental illnesses are not "thrash" and they deserve our compassion, not hate.

The OP can certainly choose another relationship for his own mental health, but she is no less a person than he is.

Imo if you can't break up with her then at least don't let her live with you.

I love to disagree with truthsayer, but hes dead on here. Untill we actually get better at analyzing the brain itself physically, and getting inside of how it really works, this whole DSM thing is kind of a joke. Its better then nothing, but it's effectiveness really seems to depend too much on the professional using it.

"Hey guys, psychology is nonsense, and doesn't help anyone, except for when it can. Also, nothing is treatable."

Seriously reread what you just wrote.

Deep down she thinks she is trash though. That's the thing. She likely has a level of insecurity that is nearly impossible to comprehend.


The fact that you feel you need to keep it from her is a MASSIVE red flag. There are other things you've written about you being worried about doing something or saying something totally normal because it might set her off. This should really make you think long and hard about the relationship and how healthy it is. You are totally accommodating unacceptable behavior because of fear of the reaction you may get from her (or that you may lose her!).

Talk about walking on eggshells. Read that book.

Reading the forum that was linked (or others like it) isn't a bad thing either - there are a lot of support group forums out there. But you absolutely need to learn a lot of skills that will be absolutely essential if you are going to have any shot at keeping a solid sense of self, let alone making this work (the latter part is largely out of your control).

Yes. He was very full-of-himself. Maybe NPD is a better choice...I'll have to do some reading up on it.

Clark batting 1.000 itt.