She probably went to the toilet because of the way they interpret the turning off of the stereo....To a normal person, it's 'oh, I don't like that, but I guess he doesn't like the stereo being on, and maybe it's waking the neighbours.' To a borderline though, it very quickly expands in her mind into crushing of her as a person...suddenly, everything will turn black, painful inside for her. Her sense of self is extremely fragile, and can be broken in a situation like this. So she heads to the toilet for 2 hours and tries to regroup. Obviously it's a terrible existence, and she's much to be pitied for it.

I've thought about the other stuff you've said, and where the relationship is now, and what is keeping you there. It's very similar to situations I found myself in in the past.
Imagine we could split it into boxes. Box B is that bad stuff that happens when she's bad and you feel hurt and lost. Obviously that turns us away from the relationship and makes us examine Box A..
Box A is the remainder of the relationship. It appears to be good, she cares for you and you care for her, enjoy each other's company, respect and look out for each other. Box A is not really penetrated by the problems in Box B. It is something to value and makes sticking it out through the bad times worthwhile, it seems.
Unfortunately, this will turn out not to be the case with Box A, either. This box will become just as black as Box B. It will become apparent after a while, maybe another 8 months, that she appears on a basic level not to care for you, save either what she can get from you or in order to stop you from simply leaving. If the situation becomes desperate, and she fears she may lose you, she will not hesitate, by moral conscience or otherwise, to carry out actions that harm you. Someone gave the example of 'crying rape' before. Can you imagine for one moment that someone who actually loved someone else for more than what they could get from them would ever do this? Would try to alienate them from their friends? Would seek revenge to soothe her own wounds? Things will go this way. Your 'heart' will be damaged from this. Your ability to love and have wholesome, trusting, meaningful relationships with people will be compromised by this.
Proceed with the relationship with her, cohabiting, if you wish. Just be aware that you will become deeply compromised by it. Your heart will be broken. You will look back on this thread in one year's time and wish you had acted on the advice. Get out of it now before she really gets her claws into you and it becomes just too hard. I've been there. It's a very ugly place, you want to avoid it.

^ great post

didnt read the whole thing but:

http://therationalmale.com/2012/01/2...lity-disorder/

In short, run far and fast away...

hahaha I did the exact same.

It's scary seeing the sheer number of BPD experience posts in this thread and that the total number of successful relationships coming out of them is exactly zero. Also it seems like most of the guys posting can empathize with your position and felt the same exact way as you at one point. But, now, with the added experience of watching how a relationship evolves with someone who has BPD, they regret not breaking it off before they got in too deep. It's your choice and I'm sure by every measure you have it seems like your girl is different, the one exception, but unfortunately the numbers make a strong case for the opposite.

Best of luck to you and to the girl regardless of what you decide.

Grunching but I dated a girl with this disorder. Leave now. Don't look back. Period.

Well how hard is it to put the ****ing fork away in the right place. Jesus

Spot on. OP got what he deserved iyam

Some very good posts here with a lot of common sense, that have definately made me think if I am doing the right thing. I am a pretty laid-back person, that doesn't handle stress well at all, so I know it should be an extremely easy decision... but I just can't bring myself to break up with her, and am still with her, and I did go to the therapist with her today for an hour session, and I don't really think it helped at all.

Everything seemed fine on the drive there, and then she wanted to speak first about why we are here, and the first thing she opened with was "He is a professional gambler, drinks a lot and his best friend is a wannabe rockstar with a cocaine addiction" . So... right off the bat, I was pretty much seen as the bad guy immediatly after that, and I felt like I couldn't really say anything, and that it was turning into how we can move past "my" problems rather than her problems. The therapist asked me weird questions like "So, Do you owe money?" and then when I said No, the therapist looked over at my GF, like to confirm it or something. The whole thing felt hostile and bad.

When I brought up her BPD, she really didn't want to touch on the plate incident and just said she promises not to be violent anymore, and that it was a one off thing, and it won't happen again, and sort of justified it as well by saying "no one was hurt" and even tried the whole harmless woman act when the issue was being persisted with, and said "I'm only 5'2" and barely weigh 100lbs, how much damage could I do?" which really concerned me. And when I mentioned the bathroom incident, she said "it was just a build-up of stress. I'm fine now", and that was that.

But then she talked about her background and her Mum, I think more happened than just being locked in her room... she clearly didn't feel comfortable talking about her Mother and was getting really upset talking about her, and the therapist noticed that and said it would be best to gradually build up to it. She also mentioned that her first boyfriend used to hit her and also hinted that he forced himself on her as well, which made me feel more sympathy for her knowing how crap her childhood was. Then we touched on establishing boundaries, and that was about it. The therapist then booked us in for next Friday as well to talk about boundaries.


It really doesn't feel right-(tbh, I don't think I can anyway) to break up with her while I still have strong feelings for her, and I am scared that her having to go back to living with her Mum fulltime could really damage her even more. Do you guys think that I am sort of morally obligated to stay with her now, knowing what the potential backlash will be if I don't?

What does she enjoy?
What settles her down and make her more functional?
Does she have a professional/engaged side where she forgets to be crazy?

Most therapists are absolute morons who do more harm than good. It sounds like you've found one. Psychology and therapy is a very weird profession full of poor thinkers with authority issues, or damaged themselves. There are a handful of good ones, and what they do is focus on practical, rational agents of change, like living situations, goals, and CBT type strategies. The "talk about your feelings and past" stuff is just nonsense and unsupported by science.

If you're intelligent, you can do a lot of this yourself and save a bunch of money, hostility and wasted time.

What you are dealing with is someone with intense feelings of loneliness, shame, and fear. You need to understand that these feelings are the cause of everything, and that her actions, including violence, avoidance, denial, lying and aggression are actually nothing more than quite rational, albeit animalistic, ways to cope with intense feelings.

Some of these morph into dysfunctional habits learned over time while attempting to cope with those feelings. Lying, for example, becomes seen as expedient.

So you need a three pronged approach here.

The first is reducing these feelings. Let her know she's deeply loved and can do no wrong by you. That you're there with here. This will take time, but eventually it will break down her deep, instinctive distrust. She will test this, as a child would; you need to be unwavering. When her acting out gives no emotion reward, she will instnctively change.

The second prong is dealing with her feelings of self disgust that stop here from realizing and working through her dysfunction. You do this by creating goals, praising her, and focussing on things that bring out the adult, functional, smart part of her. This will give her extra energy, perspective and a source of strength.

The third prong is practical behavioral modification. This is the hardest, as BPDs are highly resistant to control or structure touching on themselves (as a wild animal is, which is essentially what they are) but if she's smart and willing, you can discuss ways to start modifying, in the moment, destructive dysfunctionalnbehavior. For example, the next time she's in a rage, agree beforehand thatbyou'll buy her something nice (or be her slave for a day, or anything else that is rewardng and fun and light hearted) if she does behavior X instead of Y. You're esssentially reconditioning her behavior.

I can give you more advice if you want. Personally I'd dump the clown therapist you have. If he didn't immediately see through her games, he's too ****ing stupid and inexperienced to do anything. Keep searching, you might get lucky.

Lol at morally obligated to stick around until you get your throat slit in your sleep. There's a reason every post in this thread has told you to run away like your ass is on fire.

This thread has so much potential.

I have to say I'm taking some pleasure from reading the updates and seeing OP experience everything that everyone warned him about. I feel really guilty about it, but nonetheless...

You mean she manipulated the therapist to see you as the bad guy? **** me!!! If only someone had warned you that she would manipulate people against you...

Also, you have to understand that she is manipulating you just like she is the therapist. All the stuff about her mom and her previous bf may or may not be true. She's trying to make you feel bad for her to keep you close to her. I tried to warn you about her manipulation. I also warned you that what you see with her is not real. None of it.

Therapy is notoriously difficult for people with a PD, especially BPD, b/c they lie and manipulate everyone. It's nearly impossible for a therapist to have any real idea what's going on. On top of that, BPDs think their life and way of thinking is normal. They often have no idea how outlandish their behavior and thoughts are, so they naturally don't share it with the therapist. Lots of therapists won't even take BPD patients b/c they're so difficult to deal with.

No one but you thinks you have any moral obligation to her. wtf is wrong with you? As I've said before, you need to talk to a therapist yourself and alone, not with the BPD.

Also, don't listen to anything Truthsayer says itt. He has no idea what he's talking about and his advice is, quite literally, dangerous.

In the post above you are making absurd generalizations about someone you have never met, and my advice is dangerous?

Are you aware of how many different types of BDP there are? That it's merely a cluster of symptoms and not a "disease", like cancer? That it differs wildly from person to person, in term of outcomes, behavior, etc?

You say stuff like:
And yet you advocate therapy. What is therapy going to do if it's "nearly impossible" for the therapist to have any idea what's going on?

She clearly has substantial awareness of her problems as posted by OP. She was clearly uncomfortable being there and dealt with it in a bad way. That the therapist didn't pick that up immediately makes him a moron. I'm sorry. Therapists experienced with BDP would be on top of that in a minute or less.
More therapist dollars.

Perhaps you've been burnt by a BDP - mother/girlfriend? and have a raging fear of them, but the facts are quite clear - I've posted the studies in this thread - that most recover and have no relapses, contrary to what everyone in this thread is saying. If he wants to stay with her because her likes here, the prognosis is excellent. Who are you to say "wtf is wrong with you" if he wants to do that?

This is ridiculous.

You are literally dating a ticking time bomb. This is a level. I think you have problems yourself. Be a a ****ing man and man up. You'll find someone else and they'll be better than this. She literally has nothing going for herself and then she dragged you down below her. If the only reason you are keeping a girl around is basically she is the only one that will regularly **** you, you need to get rid of her. She is going to destroy you and you are going to take it literally in the ass. This will not last. Imagine getting out now while you are still not 100% attached to when you will be breaking up and it'll be 10 times worse. I hope for yourself you don't get hurt.

This is straight bull**** and very dangerous to post in any case, especially where she's clearly unwilling to meaningfully partake in therapy.

OP,

Expert job by her of devaluing you while talking about her tough situation and the value you can add by sticking with her.

It's scientific fact. What you and others are posting is "straight bull****". From a summary recommended by the NIMH:

BDP has an excellent prognosis. And note that these numbers include truly dysfunctional, unintelligent people with severe abuse and attachment issues, and zero insight. Foster home children. The horribly abused. The comorbid, which is common. OP's girlfriend is without a doubt on the higher level of functioning and likely remission.
There is also little evidence that therapy does anything over spontaneous remissions, as rates are not known (not saying it doesn't, it likely does, just that there is little evidence).

People really need to stop talking about things they have no clue about.

Just some of my thoughts -

I stayed with my wife as long as I did, because I loved (past tense, lol) dangerous excitement. You say that you are easily stressed? I would suggest that you leave quickly. Of course you have no moral obligation to stay, you have the right to be happy. Dalerob's, Clark's (and other's) advice holds, time to get you well and live that life you dreamed of.

I do thank you for the updates, but I think you know what you need to do. (Plus, I would suggest that you might need therapy for you. The fact that you're putting yourself into this no-win situation, when you aren't psychologically prepared for it, seems problematic.

Truthsayer, can I assume you have an inordinate fondness for L Ron Hubbard? Your advice on therapy is highly skewed.

Truthsayer, no. No to everything. No to the "has good prognosis" assertion, and no to CBT and "practical therapy" being the right treatment for BPD.

Truth, stfu.

I think with every mental illness there are people who make it other peoples problems and refuse to accept their own fault, and people who take it out mostly on themselve and try to hide it and not make it other peoples problems. It seems the first type goes through life burning bridges and the second type eventually has an emotional break down and is forced to deal with it. The first type is probably in the majority. Same with poker, 90% blame their losses on luck, and 10% blame themselves and eventually get better.

This one seems mostly the first type tho. She gets therapy to please OP, not to get better. And she brushes of these things a bit too lightly. She is probably secretly blaming him for all kinds of stuff already. This will slowly build up in her head untill the whole thing turns into a trainwreck.

OP,

The best advice is still GTFO. Now!

However, if you remain intent on ignoring that, please pay particular attention to what Clark Nasty and dalerobk2 tell you in this thread. From reading Clark's posts, I'd guess he has dealt with a BPD long-term more successfully than anyone else itt, and his posts have all been very well-reasoned.

Repeating: you have no moral obligation to continue this relationship. It is clear that she has you trapped and outwitted. You can get out much more easily now than later. And there will come a point where you will want out and wish you had gotten out much sooner.

It did help - she opened up! This is approximately the truth as she sees it: you are and have always been the problem in the relationship. She's done nothing wrong, other than little things which are attributable to others in her past, which you have dealt with poorly despite her best efforts. She apologizes and pretends she's at fault when you're truly at fault to make you feel better at times and also to try to get you to do the same. She doesn't want to rub it in your face all the time, because everyone has faults and you have potential to get better. She's been waiting all this time to get you to see the error of your ways. Maybe then things will get better.

If you agree with this, you guys have a future together. Who am I to judge, maybe she's not as bad it seems, you don't have it quite together, you're lucky to be with her and her view is correct. Maybe she'll cure you and make you almost as sane as her. But she's not going to change her view and as time goes on, you will be forced to deal with it because she's been holding back.