Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Other Other Topics Discussion of arts & entertainment, pop culture, food & drink, health and exercise, fashion, relationships, work, and just about anything else in life except poker, sports, religion and politics.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-27-2012, 11:08 AM   #151
34TheTruth34
Mark's Dirty Sanchez
 
34TheTruth34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,416
Re: Credit Primer & Discussion w/ JL

are you making enough money doing this and/or building enough credit for all this to be worth it? seems potentially dangerous to me, but tbh im not sure why i think that.
34TheTruth34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 11:32 AM   #152
Paul Openfold
banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,303
Applying for 5 new cards every 3 months seems like overkill imo

You're probably better off just building up a responsible credit history with the accounts you already have
Paul Openfold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 12:22 PM   #153
THAY3R
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
THAY3R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Que?
Posts: 31,588
Re: Credit Primer & Discussion w/ JL

How important is it to get out of CC debt ASAP? I used to have great credit, but now it's ~690 after building up a lot of debt after going busto on high variance investments about 2-3 years ago.

I'm a poker player so no real fixed income, I'm owed a LOT of $ by people though I don't anticipate receiving much of it any time soon and I have pretty great earning potential (+200k past year online with very consistent results and no big swings at all), but still no immediate returns as I'm still in makeup though receiving ~2k a month to play out of the country. Would you strongly consider getting some kind of large personal loan from a friend even if the rate is pretty high to improve my credit? FWIW I basically never use my cards anymore and at the moment am just paying a little more than min payment on my cards
THAY3R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 02:17 PM   #154
Greggers
banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 632
Re: Credit Primer & Discussion w/ JL

Quote:
Originally Posted by THAY3R View Post
How important is it to get out of CC debt ASAP? I used to have great credit, but now it's ~690 after building up a lot of debt after going busto on high variance investments about 2-3 years ago.

I'm a poker player so no real fixed income, I'm owed a LOT of $ by people though I don't anticipate receiving much of it any time soon and I have pretty great earning potential (+200k past year online with very consistent results and no big swings at all), but still no immediate returns as I'm still in makeup though receiving ~2k a month to play out of the country. Would you strongly consider getting some kind of large personal loan from a friend even if the rate is pretty high to improve my credit? FWIW I basically never use my cards anymore and at the moment am just paying a little more than min payment on my cards
Unless you're considering making a major purchase some time soon (where your credit score will be relevant in your life), I wouldn't take out a high rate personal loan to offset your CC debt. Sounds like as your loans get paid back you'll get there anyway.

But if you do need to improve your credit score quickly, JL mentioned that credit utilization (CC revolving debt balance / total CC credit available) is ~30% of the total score, and sounds like that's where your score is getting hit the hardest (if you don't have any late payments). Maybe try achieving utilization improvement in 2 ways: request line of credit increases while also paying down debt. Also make a basic plan with achievable targets: if you're at 50% utilization today, shoot for 10% decrements every couple months until you get to ~20%. (Top FICO scorers are <10% as a high watermark.) I imagine you'll see some real improvement in your score.

ETA -- another easy thing to do that could improve your economics is to call your CC companies and negotiate for lower APR (if you haven't done this already). If you haven't been late on payments and are in good standing, you should at minimum be able to knock off a couple points on all your cards.

Last edited by Greggers; 11-27-2012 at 02:26 PM.
Greggers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 02:19 PM   #155
JL514
because i can
 
JL514's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,393
Re: Credit Primer & Discussion w/ JL

Quote:
Originally Posted by 34TheTruth34 View Post
are you making enough money doing this and/or building enough credit for all this to be worth it? seems potentially dangerous to me, but tbh im not sure why i think that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Openfold View Post
Applying for 5 new cards every 3 months seems like overkill imo

You're probably better off just building up a responsible credit history with the accounts you already have
I am not applying for cards to build credit. I already have credit. I apply for cards for rewards and travel and perks and benefits. Typically, I apply for cards for signup bonuses. Here are some examples from this year:

Citi AAdvantage Visa - 40k AA miles, enough for 3 domestic coach 1ways
Citi AAdvantage Amex - 40k AA miles
Citi HHonors Visa - 50k HHonors, enough for 1 night at a top Hilton property, or more at lower class properties
Citi HHonors Reserve - 2 Weekend night certs, usable at any Hilton that's not all-inclusive + HHonors Gold status

Chase SW Visa - 50k RR points, varies on ticket price. Approx. 2 domestic RTs
Chase Sapphire Preferred - 40k UR points, $400 cashback, or 2 nights at a top hyat property, or domestic RT on united etc
Chase Ink Plus - 50k UR points, $500 cashback, or see above

Amex HHonors - 40k HHonors, see above
Amex BCE - $100 cashback

Barclays US Air - 40k miles, RT coach ticket to hawaii during off peak, RT domestic ticket during peak

BOA - Hawaii Airlines, 35k miles
BOH - Hawaii Airlines, 35k miles, Almost RT US to hawaii, saver 1way to Australia, or transfer 1:2 HHonors points (70k each card or 140k total, see above for redemptions)

My goal is to be able to travel for cheap, including hotels and airfare and to get to see some cool places that I otherwise wouldn't have. Most of these cards have annual fees and spending requirements for the bonuses. The annual fees are typically waived the first year. I will close most of the cards before their anniversary date, and I just cycle my spend to whatever cards I'm trying to meet the requirements for.
JL514 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 04:26 PM   #156
skunkworks
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
skunkworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fancy Hats Only
Posts: 7,371
Re: Credit Primer & Discussion w/ JL

JL, one thing I never understood with cycling cards is the cost of closing those accounts before the year. Isn't that a big deal to not close those cards out?
skunkworks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 05:44 PM   #157
JL514
because i can
 
JL514's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,393
Re: Credit Primer & Discussion w/ JL

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. On most of the cards I listed, the annual fee is waived the first year. So as the first year comes to a close, they will assess the annual fee on the card's anniversary date. If it's a card I don't plan on keeping, I will call the retention department at about 10-11 months and tell them I'm thinking of closing the card, the fee doesn't seem worth it etc, is there anything they can do. Sometimes they will waive the fee another year, sometimes they will offer you a mileage bonus to keep the card, sometimes they will say there's nothing they can do.

There is no monetary cost to cancel the card. If you meant cost as in the effect it may have on my score then that's a little different. I don't intend to actually close the card, I will ask if there is a downgrade available to a card with no annual fee. This keeps the credit limit established (good for utilization) and the history with the lender.

Only if I can't get a retention deal AND there is no downgrade available will I actually cancel the card. The cost here is in the credit limit (utilization), but it's typically possible to move most of the limit to another card with the same lender before cancelling so you keep nearly the same limits. The other issue is it will affect the average age of accounts, but if it's a card I've only had a year it may actually be a positive change.

Another option is to trade credit limits. At the moment, I'm at Chase's maximum exposure / lending limit based on my income. If I apply for another card, it will be denied due to sufficient credit with Chase. I can call the Reconsideration line and offer to transfer a credit limit and close a current card to allow me to get approved for a new card. This way, I kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
JL514 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 06:08 PM   #158
skunkworks
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
skunkworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fancy Hats Only
Posts: 7,371
Re: Credit Primer & Discussion w/ JL

I get that it's better to cancel a card if there's no free downgrade option. I'm asking because I don't like the idea of having a graveyard of credit cards and would prefer to close them out when I know I'll never use them again.

So the negative effect to your credit score when closing a card has to do with average age of accounts and credit limit and not the actual closing of an account?
skunkworks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 06:20 PM   #159
nutsfl0pper
old hand
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,298
Re: Credit Primer & Discussion w/ JL

What's up with equifax saying my security Q&A don't match my records? I think I'd remember taking out a mortgage 4 years ago and what my middle name is. They want me to fax them my driver's license. I didn't know fax still existed. pia
nutsfl0pper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 07:31 PM   #160
imjosh
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
imjosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 18,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by skunkworks View Post
So the negative effect to your credit score when closing a card has to do with average age of accounts and credit limit and not the actual closing of an account?
Yep. On the other side of the equation, opening a card doesn't do anything to your score directly, it's the inquiry that drops your score and lowering of your average age of credit that drops your score, and the subsequent lowering of your utilization that increases your score
imjosh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 07:36 PM   #161
JL514
because i can
 
JL514's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,393
Re: Credit Primer & Discussion w/ JL

Quote:
Originally Posted by nutsfl0pper View Post
What's up with equifax saying my security Q&A don't match my records? I think I'd remember taking out a mortgage 4 years ago and what my middle name is. They want me to fax them my driver's license. I didn't know fax still existed. pia
There are typically 3 questions for confirmation. Any info they have are totally based on public records so you should be able to google it about yourself or otherwise get the info.

Sometimes they can be unintentionally tricky. For example, I had to think twice the other day when I was asked "in which town did you go to school" (I went to UMiami) because they gave me both "coral gables" and "miami". When the campus is actually in coral gables.

Another time, I was working with a friend and they asked "which of these companies do you have an auto loan with". None of the listed companies were her loan owner. But after a bit of googling, we found out that one of the listed companies was the associated branch of her loan owner specifically for toyota/scions. Had we picked "none of the above" it would have been incorrect.
JL514 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 10:06 PM   #162
imjosh
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
imjosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 18,748
Re: Credit Primer & Discussion w/ JL

For anyone looking to take the risk and sell their Chase UR points or any other airline etc points, google flighthunter bruce. He gives 1.5-1.6 cents per point. He paypals you the money first - just had a successful trade with him; my 19500 UR points for his $305 before paypal fees, for a net of $295
imjosh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 10:10 PM   #163
imjosh
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
imjosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 18,748
Re: Credit Primer & Discussion w/ JL

JL have you or anyone else in this thread for that matter ever tried opening an account with 0% APR, taking all of the credit they give you and investing it in stocks/etc, and then putting the principal back in right before your 0% period ends while keeping the profits? Seems like a top-tier credit trick, but I have yet to attempt it. Maybe sometime down the line when I clear my student loans off and can afford to take some bigger risks.

Hell, you could even just put the credit in a high yield savings/checking account for that matter, 0 risk whatsoever
imjosh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 10:34 PM   #164
gtpitch
making sick bumps
 
gtpitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: posting topless
Posts: 33,696
Re: Credit Primer & Discussion w/ JL

Quote:
Originally Posted by imjosh View Post
JL have you or anyone else in this thread for that matter ever tried opening an account with 0% APR, taking all of the credit they give you and investing it in stocks/etc, and then putting the principal back in right before your 0% period ends while keeping the profits? Seems like a top-tier credit trick, but I have yet to attempt it. Maybe sometime down the line when I clear my student loans off and can afford to take some bigger risks.

Hell, you could even just put the credit in a high yield savings/checking account for that matter, 0 risk whatsoever
Most companies charge you 4% - 5% of the amount in a cash advance fee or convenience check fee (depending on how you do this), so you'd have to earn at least that back to make it worth it.

In other words a high yield savings or checking probably wouldn't make the fee back in a 12 month period. Obviously it isn't a bad play but just remember if you take $10,000 off the card and end up losing money you may be risking your credit "career" for the next few years at a chance to make some quick cash.
gtpitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 10:48 PM   #165
imjosh
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
imjosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 18,748
Re: Credit Primer & Discussion w/ JL

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpitch View Post
Most companies charge you 4% - 5% of the amount in a cash advance fee or convenience check fee (depending on how you do this), so you'd have to earn at least that back to make it worth it.

In other words a high yield savings or checking probably wouldn't make the fee back in a 12 month period. Obviously it isn't a bad play but just remember if you take $10,000 off the card and end up losing money you may be risking your credit "career" for the next few years at a chance to make some quick cash.
I was thinking people would use something like Amazon Payments and equivalents to just pull money off of the card, that wouldn't have a fee associated with it
imjosh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 10:57 PM   #166
JL514
because i can
 
JL514's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,393
Re: Credit Primer & Discussion w/ JL

Amazon payments has a $1k limit on CC transfers monthly. If the mint were still in effect you could just buy $10k in coins and deposit them, and there are still some options these days but they are not nearly as good.

To answer your question directly, no I haven't. I only got into credit cards recently and with the down market and less options for getting cash advances of your entire limit and not paying associated fees I'm not sure it's worth it these days.

I certainly have leveraged signup bonuses and shopping portals for buying and reselling goods to make a profit or to breakeven and bank a ton of points. I know one blogger bought/sold his way to a Southwest Companion Pass (one of the best perks in the airline industry atm) through the rapid rewards portal and used the sears trick I mentioned earlier in the thread.

Most recently I bought and resold Kindle Paperwhites at Staples using my Chase Ink Plus (5% UR points at office supply stores, and 0% for 6 months). I drove around to a bunch of Staples' and bought all the Kindles they'd let me as they were selling for ~$50 over retail on eBay since Amazon is currently backordered. I bought over 50 Kindles in total, made ~30k UR points on the purchases alone, unlocked the 50k UR point signup bonus on the Ink, and made ~2k profits. Of course, I would have been pretty happy even if I broke even...
JL514 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 02:54 PM   #167
JL514
because i can
 
JL514's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,393
Re: Credit Primer & Discussion w/ JL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim14Qc View Post
Yes, this. Nonetheless, I'd like some input because the crazy 5-6% reward rates I am seeing in this thread have my head explode. I'm getting 2% on EVERYTHING, pure cash back, with mbna travel rewards (grandfathered). Can someone in Canada think of a better deal? There are no fees on my card but I'd be willing to look into cards with fees.

I spend about 10k on construction material a year and then:

- 15k travel (that's about 5k airline, 7k hotels, 3k car rentals);
- 1-1.5k on groceries
- 2-3k on gas
- everything else is random stuff, with a total spend of probably around 40k on credit cards a year.

Would love to hear input about better cards tham what I have now. I am fully satisfied from a insurnace and benefits perspective but theses 6% deals are having me water at the mouth.
I didn't check this list myself, but I thought of you guys when I saw this:

http://thepointsguy.com/2012/12/the-top-travel-credit-card-offers-for-canadians/
JL514 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 05:59 PM   #168
Byrung
too late axe in car
 
Byrung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: angleshooting bingo sloots
Posts: 4,360
Re: Credit Primer & Discussion w/ JL

so after getting my credit score from transunion and it stated im a 702 I went into my bank (scotia) today and asked for an $18,000 consolidation loan. It got denied but I was approved for $5000 at 6%.

The bank lists me as a C grade.

I have a full time job with two vehicles paid off combined worth to them is $25,000. I havent had anything bad on my credit history and all my payment history is fine.

So im a little confused if I have $25,000 in assets which isnt even including some of the other stuff I own, why I was only approved for $5000

Sorta pissed but its better than nothing.
Byrung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 06:40 PM   #169
Your Boss
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,821
Re: Credit Primer & Discussion w/ JL

Quick question.

How quickly does the utilization metric get updated? Say you were at 50% util and paid it down to 10% in one payment, how fast would your credit score get a bump?
Your Boss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 09:09 PM   #170
imjosh
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
imjosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 18,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Your Boss View Post
Quick question.

How quickly does the utilization metric get updated? Say you were at 50% util and paid it down to 10% in one payment, how fast would your credit score get a bump?
As soon as your credit card reports your balances to the credit reporting agencies (typically a day or two after you get your billing statement for that particular card)
imjosh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 11:33 PM   #171
Greggers
banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 632
Re: Credit Primer & Discussion w/ JL

What's up with VantageScore? Do lenders use those numbers at all in weighting decisions? I have 800+ FICO scores, but I'm only rated as a "B" with an 879 out of 990 for the VantageScore (per Transunion on the Credit Karma site, didn't check VantageScore at Experian and not sure Equifax even gives out VantageScores).

Been trying to research differences but it's pretty vague/unclear at the sites I've visited.

Curious to see if anyone knows more about this, thanks in advance!
Greggers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2012, 10:20 PM   #172
Kvaughan
veteran
 
Kvaughan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Trying to 6-bet bluff
Posts: 2,606
Re: Credit Primer & Discussion w/ JL

Quote:
Originally Posted by JL514 View Post
I read 30min - 1hr every day through Google Reader with a bunch of my favorite blogs and that's pretty much it.
Would you mind posting some of the blogs you follow? Would like to read up on this as well.
Kvaughan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 12:10 PM   #173
JL514
because i can
 
JL514's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,393
Re: Credit Primer & Discussion w/ JL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greggers View Post
What's up with VantageScore? Do lenders use those numbers at all in weighting decisions? I have 800+ FICO scores, but I'm only rated as a "B" with an 879 out of 990 for the VantageScore (per Transunion on the Credit Karma site, didn't check VantageScore at Experian and not sure Equifax even gives out VantageScores).

Been trying to research differences but it's pretty vague/unclear at the sites I've visited.

Curious to see if anyone knows more about this, thanks in advance!
Check the Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vantagescore

It's calculated differently, see this image I took from creditcardforum:


And feel free to read their summary here
JL514 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 12:21 PM   #174
JL514
because i can
 
JL514's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,393
Re: Credit Primer & Discussion w/ JL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvaughan View Post
Would you mind posting some of the blogs you follow? Would like to read up on this as well.
Sure, here are some, but beware that most of the bloggers make money on credit card referrals so you have to deal with a lot of posts about certain cards over and over for little reason other than they are trying to get paid:

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/dealswelike/
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/deltapoints/feed/
http://www.extrapackofpeanuts.com/feed/
http://blog.frequentflier.com/atom.xml
http://feeds.feedburner.com/frugaltravelguycom
http://hackmytrip.com/feed/
http://feeds.feedburner.com/HavePointsWillTravel
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/loyaltytraveler/feed/
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/milesquest/feed/
http://milevalue.com/feed/
http://millionmilesecrets.com/feed/
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/mommypoints/feed/
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/onemileatatime/feed/
http://www.onlinetravelreview.com/feed/
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/pointmetotheplane/feed/
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/points...martinis/feed/
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/rapidtravelchai/feed/
http://www.theflightdeal.com/feed/
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/frequentmiler/feed/
http://feeds.feedburner.com/thepointsguy
http://www.thetravelersloophole.com/feed/
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/thewanderingaramean/feed/
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/verygoodpoints/feed/
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/viewfromthewing/feed/

These are all feed links right out of my reader so if you want to read the actual blog you will have to remove the /feed/ or google the name of the blog to find the main site. The Boarding Area blogs are pretty good. My personal favorite is Frequent Miler, but he focuses more on shopping portals and gift cards than credit cards. Non BA, my favorite is Hack My Trip. And TheFlightDeal is awesome if you live near a major airport like I do.
JL514 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 02:07 PM   #175
dalerobk2
veteran
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: formerly dalerobk (pre-hack)
Posts: 2,424
Re: Credit Primer & Discussion w/ JL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrung View Post
so after getting my credit score from transunion and it stated im a 702 I went into my bank (scotia) today and asked for an $18,000 consolidation loan. It got denied but I was approved for $5000 at 6%.

The bank lists me as a C grade.

I have a full time job with two vehicles paid off combined worth to them is $25,000. I havent had anything bad on my credit history and all my payment history is fine.

So im a little confused if I have $25,000 in assets which isnt even including some of the other stuff I own, why I was only approved for $5000

Sorta pissed but its better than nothing.
Were you using the cars as collatoral? If so, that's not really a consolidation loan. If not, then the value of the cars would make no difference for the consolidation loan, which is by definition unsecured.
dalerobk2 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online