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Old 07-26-2008, 08:51 PM   #201
Fedorfan
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Re: Could you go 3 rounds with a 14yo MMA fighter?

give me 3 months to get in great shape and to train in boxing and wrestling and specifically takedown defensive, and i have a decent shot, with my 100lbs weight advantage at 63", and am pretty athletic, I'd go for the tim sylvia strategy of grinding out the jab, maintaining distance and stuffing his takedowns.

If the kid was like a 14 year old boxing prodigy, than i'd have no chance. But being that he's mostly a bjj/ground specialist and probably only a decent boxer for his age, if i can keep the fight standing with my size and strength than his ground game wont matter.

Currently i'm only in decent shape with no serious mma training, he would be able to get me down and sub me no problem. Even if i could keep the first standing for one round i would gas after a few minutes i'm sure.
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Old 07-26-2008, 09:21 PM   #202
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Re: Could you go 3 rounds with a 14yo MMA fighter?

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Originally Posted by DannyOcean_ View Post
btw not bragging but i'm probably the only one so far who may have a legit shot ~Blue belt in BJJ and somewhat not completely awful at boxing/wrestling. Plus 220 pounds. I'd last the distance for sure, although this kid is supposed to be so damn slick on the ground I can't say I'd win. I'm fairly sure i could at least stall him out, tbqh i don't know how he does against grown competition except that he destroys his age in BJJ constantly.
I'm a little surprised that you think this, he may be sick good vs other 14 year olds his age but he still only has the strength of a 14 year old, in fact i imagine he can't even do much weight training as it's bad for younger kids to do.

Huge huge difference in strength imo between a top 130lb adult mma fighter and a prodigy 130lb 14 year old mma fighter.

You gave the example of royce working guys at 170lb who were much bigger, but my point is that a 170lb adult elite fighter is going to be really strong for his weight and not all that surprising that he can compete with bigger guys, who were much less skilled.
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Old 07-27-2008, 12:00 AM   #203
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Re: Could you go 3 rounds with a 14yo MMA fighter?

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well ok i know schilt gets butchered in mma, so its important to not get thrown on the ground obv
He's not bad. Anyone who goes the distance with Fedor has skills.
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Old 07-27-2008, 08:12 AM   #204
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Re: Could you go 3 rounds with a 14yo MMA fighter?

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You gave the example of royce working guys at 170lb who were much bigger, but my point is that a 170lb adult elite fighter is going to be really strong for his weight and not all that surprising that he can compete with bigger guys, who were much less skilled.
lol at royce being really strong for his weight.

also you would need a lot more than 3 months if you've never wrestled before.
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Old 07-27-2008, 10:09 AM   #205
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Re: Could you go 3 rounds with a 14yo MMA fighter?

gotta love all the previous jocks thinking "average" shape these days means well trained,10-15%body fat and runs fast miles, jesus what world do YOU live in?
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Old 07-27-2008, 11:39 AM   #206
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Re: Could you go 3 rounds with a 14yo MMA fighter?

If you are an untrained 160 pound adult, you can't beat a 14 year old trained MMA fighter. Think about Gracie vs. Severn. The 170 lbs. guy tooled the 270 pounder in this fight.
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Old 07-27-2008, 12:20 PM   #207
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Re: Could you go 3 rounds with a 14yo MMA fighter?

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dont leave wrist/arms outside of your frame.

keep hands/arms contacting person or in air... never on mat.

Hammerfists/repeated right's when he high guard's you.

It'd take me about 5 minutes of pointers to do/use the Lutter triangle defense.

use brute strength to break his ankles/wrists/fingers when he RNC's you. Chin down and some minor wrist control and theres no way he sinks it anyways.



....not that hard?
be careful you are going to show all the super tough internet mma tards that their three months of paying some old guy to choke them with their own sleeve isn't the only thing that prevents them from getting their asses kicked by an 8th grader
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Old 07-27-2008, 12:50 PM   #208
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Re: Could you go 3 rounds with a 14yo MMA fighter?

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first of all, http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhanes/...l/cj41l021.pdf

second, that's pretty sad dude. they're barely teenagers and you have 60lbs on them and you think either could overpower you? by my definition you can't possibly be in anything near "decent shape" unless these kids aren't only 99th percentile in height/weight but also have been weight training since birth
in his defense, when you are doing restraints in this type of environment you have to follow a very specific protocol to make sure you don't hurt the kid. i used to work in the same setting. there were a lot of kids there who i could have hammered in a fight but never restrained 1-on-1 (and in fact 1-to-1 restraints in a lot of states of a child over the age of 8 or so are illegal for this very reason).

i was going to bring up a similar example but realized that it was totally not relevant

in fact i would even take it a step further. i have had kids try to jump me when i was working late nights or just playing around and i don't think they had the strength to lock in a really good submission even if they were trained. there were times when i had three or four of them trying to pile on me (some of them bigger and older than this kid) and i was able to just toss them around. yes blah blah blah mma is about technique not strength but at the bottom line i don't think any but the most insane (i.e. huge) 14 year olds meet the minimum threshold to use these techniques on a moderately strong adult.

i have heard a lot of people say they have been worked by smaller adults in combat (so have i) but very few if any say they have combat experience against a kid that age now that they are adults. i do.

Last edited by Mr. Clean; 07-27-2008 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 07-27-2008, 02:25 PM   #209
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Re: Could you go 3 rounds with a 14yo MMA fighter?

I do I said where I train there is a 15 year old state champ that weighs like 120 pounds(prolly wrestles at like 100 or something though) he is just too little to take me down. I am not that big(I am pretty strong though) and it just feels like someone with no strength is trying to get you.

Adult guys who wrestled in high school who def werent state champs are way better(plus they are not currently wrestling every day like this kid.

Yeah and I agree with the above poster. I am sure this guy could smash this kid if there were no rules to how he could do it.

My mom has to do this sometimes with kindergarten age kids and you have to like get behind them, huge them and then sit down.
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Old 07-27-2008, 07:06 PM   #210
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Re: Could you go 3 rounds with a 14yo MMA fighter?

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I do I said where I train there is a 15 year old state champ that weighs like 120 pounds(prolly wrestles at like 100 or something though) he is just too little to take me down. I am not that big(I am pretty strong though) and it just feels like someone with no strength is trying to get you.

.
exactly, the kid might be sick good on the ground vs other kids, but i doubt a 14 year old can easily take down an adult that is in good shape and weighs 100 lbs more than him. And if he can't take you down than his ground game is worthless.
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Old 07-27-2008, 11:30 PM   #211
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Re: Could you go 3 rounds with a 14yo MMA fighter?

i've seen a 150 lbs. former high school wrestler take down a 6" 240 lbs dude who claimed to have 12% bf (looking at him, i believed it) in a street fight. double leg to mount to gnp. took like a second for it hit the deck.

i've also taken down a guy that outweighed me by 60 lbs (all muscle). and my wrestling sucks.
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Originally Posted by Mr. Clean View Post
be careful you are going to show all the super tough internet mma tards that their three months of paying some old guy to choke them with their own sleeve isn't the only thing that prevents them from getting their asses kicked by an 8th grader
the super tough internet tards are the ones that have never trained a day in their life and think they know who they can or can't beat up in an mma fight.

fwiw

and yeah you're totally able to defend subs after reading about it on the internet. as i said, submission grappling is worthless. i just don't understand how all these professional fighters keep getting submitted in mma fights. if only they could read mad's post.

Last edited by Phildo; 07-27-2008 at 11:36 PM.
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Old 07-27-2008, 11:37 PM   #212
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Re: Could you go 3 rounds with a 14yo MMA fighter?

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I haven't looked at the video, but apparently it isn't valid because it was when he was 11. 11 to 14 is a massive difference.

I think 14 is actually about the right line here, age wise. I wouldn't ever argue for a 11-12 year old, and I'm guessing very few of you think you could beat this kid at 15-16. So I'd say 13.5-14 is about the age when this kid starts to be able to take untrained but strong adults.
i think this is spot on. when he hits puberty in full force, game over if you don't know how to fight. now if you are trained in something other than mma even if it is lacking in ground tactics, i think you could still get by against a kid
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Old 07-28-2008, 12:32 AM   #213
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Re: Could you go 3 rounds with a 14yo MMA fighter?

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i've seen a 150 lbs. former high school wrestler take down a 6" 240 lbs dude who claimed to have 12% bf (looking at him, i believed it) in a street fight. double leg to mount to gnp. took like a second for it hit the deck.

i've also taken down a guy that outweighed me by 60 lbs (all muscle). and my wrestling sucks.
yeah if he's 16+ or an adult than no contest of course, but 14 year olds aren't nearly as strong at the same weight as an adult who works out, your muscles just aren't developed much at 14, relatively.
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Old 07-28-2008, 02:27 AM   #214
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Re: Could you go 3 rounds with a 14yo MMA fighter?

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i just don't understand how all these professional fighters keep getting submitted in mma fights. if only they could read mad's post.
14 year old that trains in MMA conditions once a month != professional fighter.

That would be my basic outline for fighting this kid, IF IF IF IF it goes to the ground. Pretty basic stuff, just dont leave your limbs out where they can get broken off (although I highly doubt some kid that is half my weight could do any real damage).

I'm not trying to sound like some tough guy... but im a pretty big dude with decent enough fundamentals. I dont have any solid fight experience (other then the standard 5 school yard fights + drunken boxing every third weekend). Do I think I could take 95% of all random HW's that would show up to fight as AM's at some local show? Yes.

I'm not that strong (for my size), but I know 1-2 decently connected kicks and its over. I'm a kickboxer, and I know that.

How many times out of ten can I get off two good low kicks before getting taken down?
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Old 07-28-2008, 02:47 AM   #215
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Re: Could you go 3 rounds with a 14yo MMA fighter?

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Speaking from personal experience, and in only a BJJ context, I've been submitted by a girl 30-40 pounds lighter than me, and I had a bit of clue of what I was doing. People who have never trained in some sort of combat sport really overestimate their abilities in a fight (unless, you know, they've fought a lot).
+1

I always laugh at these threads. I remember a thread in Sporting Events where people actually thought that Bears LB Brian Urlacher(a totally unskilled fighter from what we know) actually had a 20+% chance of beating Bas Rutten in a fight.

I wrestled for a year in HS, I played basketball in college so I'm a decent athlete, I'm 200+lbs and I bench 300+.....and I think I would be a significant underdog against this kid. At least 10-1.
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Old 07-28-2008, 02:50 AM   #216
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Re: Could you go 3 rounds with a 14yo MMA fighter?

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I think I'd go immediately with the full-on wild-eyed screaming playground-spaz-out windmill charge, throwing punches, kicks, elbows, knees, heads. Try to catch him off guard, maybe pin him against the fence, get him down with my knee or ass on on his chest or back before he knows what hit him. At least it would probably be over quick either way. I figure the more tired I get and the more he adjusts to whatever pitiful tactics I'm trying to use, the more his advantage goes up.

Actually now that I think about it, I'd have to try something like that. After 5-10 min. of solid fighting, I'd be so exhausted I'd probably just submit myself.

Can you tickle in MMA, like Matthew did to Joe on NewsRadio? Is it legal to break someone's finger? And if so is there kind a code to just not do it?

I have no clue what kind of shape you're in, but I get the feeling that you and many others are GREATLY underestimating how tired you'd get(especially employing your strategy). I'd say that the average 2p2er would be dead tired after 2 minutes and would be moving in slow motion at the 4 minute mark.
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Old 07-28-2008, 03:01 AM   #217
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Re: Could you go 3 rounds with a 14yo MMA fighter?

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Do I think I could take 95% of all random HW's that would show up to fight as AM's at some local show? Yes.
...
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Originally Posted by Mad1337nes View Post
Should I feel like a douche because I think this is a semi-lock?

im 6'2 260 (fat, obv) and like 210-215 in skinny scrawny shape (2-3 months of hard cardio). Love to kickbox/clench, my dream is to one day fight some Am mma fights and break someone's leg due to lowkicks//break someone's arm due to a kick. Suck at striking (imo... but others say im very quick for my size). Pretty comfortable from either stance, with orthodox being stronger and my right low/ left high kicks stronger.

Little actual jitz practice, but I know basic defense... and how to set up/do all the stnd subs. 2 uncles and dad were all HS wrestlers and ive learned a bit from them/ natural instincts(genetics?).
ok, so you're a kickboxer that sucks at striking, have "learned a bit" about wrestling and think you'd beat 95% of amateur hw mma fighters?

the only conclusion i can reach is that you're delusional.
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Old 07-28-2008, 03:02 AM   #218
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Re: Could you go 3 rounds with a 14yo MMA fighter?

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Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
+1

I always laugh at these threads. I remember a thread in Sporting Events where people actually thought that Bears LB Brian Urlacher(a totally unskilled fighter from what we know) actually had a 20+% chance of beating Bas Rutten in a fight.

I wrestled for a year in HS, I played basketball in college so I'm a decent athlete, I'm 200+lbs and I bench 300+.....and I think I would be a significant underdog against this kid. At least 10-1.
so you think a 130lb 14 year old is strong enough to take you down 9 out of 10 times? I really doubt this. Ok sure if you're sprawling with him on the ground he gets you 9 out of 10 times, but seriously a 130 lb kid can take you down to the ground? Just because he's awesome at bjj does not mean that he's great a taking bigger stronger guys down to the mat. I think you guys forget how weak you were in junior high school compared to being an adult
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Old 07-28-2008, 03:03 AM   #219
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Re: Could you go 3 rounds with a 14yo MMA fighter?

he's awesome at wrestling too.
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Old 07-28-2008, 03:05 AM   #220
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Re: Could you go 3 rounds with a 14yo MMA fighter?

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Yes, conditioning is a lot. It really doesn't matter how much endurance you have running, or doing pilates or whatever "military style" workout you guys do, if you don't have any experience working a ring and rolling with someone, you'll get gassed. The problem is you're going to try to use brute strength to over power your opponent and your muscles will give out eventually. The 14 year old who does nothing but roll with guys bigger than him hours a day knows how to use this leverage to his advantage. Then, in a matter of seconds to minutes he'll have your back and put you in a rear naked choke. Royce Gracie was able to beat Dan Severn in UFC 4, and Severn only weighed 70-80 pounds more and only had 30 years of freestyle wrestling experience. But, since some of you guys can run a mile in 6 minutes and can throw a nice wild punch I'm sure you all have a great chance because hey! he's only 14!

Threads like this always amuse me. A lot of you guys get your epeen all twisted and can't accept the fact that there are young people out there that are better than you at something.
video of that fight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUwhNGrXsuA
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Old 07-28-2008, 03:06 AM   #221
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Re: Could you go 3 rounds with a 14yo MMA fighter?

assani you may be a dog but i doubt it's 10:1
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Old 07-28-2008, 03:35 AM   #222
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Re: Could you go 3 rounds with a 14yo MMA fighter?

10:1 to win, not just to last the 3 rounds is what I meant.....I would most likely be on the defensive a lot, so I don't think I'd win unless I happened to knock him out. I'm sure I have 0% chance of submitting him.
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Old 07-28-2008, 07:50 AM   #223
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Re: Could you go 3 rounds with a 14yo MMA fighter?

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Originally Posted by motleytooly View Post
If you are an untrained 160 pound adult, you can't beat a 14 year old trained MMA fighter. Think about Gracie vs. Severn. The 170 lbs. guy tooled the 270 pounder in this fight.
lolololol @ that those two even being remotely comparable
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:17 PM   #224
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Re: Could you go 3 rounds with a 14yo MMA fighter?

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ok, so you're a kickboxer that sucks at striking, have "learned a bit" about wrestling and think you'd beat 95% of amateur hw mma fighters?

the only conclusion i can reach is that you're delusional.
apparently you haven't seen what kind of jokes show up to their first fights.

I dont suck at striking, I just think I do. The last person I boxed with had a nose asplode from my range finding jab, so I prolly hit pretty hard. I've seen people hobbling around the next day after they thought It was to their advantage to allow kicks during backyard goofing off. I have zero doubt that I could break an arm/wrist/multiple ribs with a solid kick to the midsection.

My uncle was a HS wrestling coach, so he taught me basics... and I learned a bit from my dad who was a state level (ca) wrestler is HS. I used to take judo (~6 months when I was younger), but still remember basic throws and using an opponent's momentum against them. I have a pretty strong base/take down defense from these things.

I played high level ice hockey from 12 to 19 (21 now), and have played roller since I was 5. For my size, im ridiculously fast. At least the trained boxer I sparred with (that I outweigh by 60+ pounds) thought so. I could keep up with his speed/head fakes with relative ease.


I'm not trying to be an e-badass... I'm a pacifist. But I know, with no doubt in my mind... I would destroy any 14 year old you could throw at me. And most 16 year olds, and most 18 year olds. And most <25 year olds off the street.
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