Yeah well I've been looking for a job, and it's not as easy as that article portrays.

What about the lower salary and bad work environment?

Those are both true, however my starting salary right out of school was +15k more than my classmates. Later I received lower raises and bonuses than my male coworkers.

BS.
I am female engineer. This article is such a BS. If a male manager has two identical applicants, only one female and other male, he will always hire male. I struggled my hole career. I have to be double as good as a guy and do earn 10%~20% less than guys in a similar position. Article is such a BS. I have to fight really hard for promotions that guys just get without even asking.

GRRRRRR. Don't get me started on gender equality in working place. There is none!

Lapka, are you a PE?

I am in Europe. Here there is no such licensing. From my education I have PhD in physics. Directly after that I started to work as an RD engineer in a plant building company. Now I have 10 years of plant engineering career behind me.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the population of female engineers itt isn't representative of the entire industry.

Before you call bull**** on the article, I think they were talking about software engineers, not PEng; and American tech companies, not companies based in Europe. Those are two big differences.

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Yes it might be different for software engineers. But, I also think that something two real engineering women say has more weight than what some random person says in an article with no statistical evidence to back their claims.

Lapka, mlylt:

Did either of you actually even read the article Gregorio linked before commenting about it?

semi-coloned your post

When I was part of a programming/development group of about 10 people, I was the best obviously, but second best was a woman and she definitely didn't get the props she deserved. There was one dude who did literally almost nothing and was way more highly regarded by management. To boast more, I did speak highly of the woman programmer at every opportunity.

Are there any other countries where sending a thank you note is standard ? I lolled at the 'being so out of touch' citanul posted and thought only in the USA but maybe some non USA person could expand on that ? I'm not saying anything about whether it is good or not, just that it's far from standard in the Euro countries I know.

The engineering source quoted in the article is a tenured professor of engineering and associate dean of graduate education at Tufts University, and IEEE USA Vice-President, Communications & Public Relations. Not exactly random, but maybe electrical/computer engineering is different than your field.

YES, I did read the article. And I think that it is pretty high nosed from you to indicate that I didn't.

"All the top companies are absolutely committed to increasing diversity and inclusion. But we have a ways to go," Wing said."

In my experience that is plain wrong. But if I take a step from my experience away, why would a company be committed to increase diversity and inclusion. The Company, be it in USA, Europe or any other part of the world, must have some kind of gain from changing ways it always operated. She doesn't mention any reason, why a company that has zero females in a middle management or higher change that. If there is at least certain percentage of women, they can try to do same things like guys, and eleviate the gender discrimination.


"Some, of course, may just be spurred by optics. "Companies know they need women because [otherwise] they will be shamed by the press and outspoken advocates," said Ingersoll, who previously led efforts to create Google Fiber."

Worser. Most of the companies are spurred by law and threat to be sued.

"The smart ones, however, also realize it can be a huge asset to their bottom line."

BS. The hiring and promotion decisions aren't only to certain small percentage based on what would bring gain to the company. Determining component is if the manager feels psychologically comfortable with hiring/promoting someone. My direct manager never worked under a woman. It is just not in his brain that a woman can be his boss. Who is a bigger asset to the company me or a guy in a similar position is just not on his list.

After my first two years in the company, my boss came once to me and gave me fatherly advice. He advised me to get pregnant and have children. Can you imagine him going to a guy and doing same thing? What does this advice say about his picture of a woman's role in a company?
edit: and it was well meant advice.

"Or in cases where a company lowballs them relative to competitors' offers, women engineering grads who ask for more are likely to get it."

The thing is that there are no equal conditions. Guys do get better offers. Clearly you can negotiate. But it is plain tougher than the same negotiations as a guy.

"It can be particularly problematic when they're working for male managers from other countries, where women are not seen as equals, she added."

That implicates that in a western/USA culture women are seen and treated as equal. That is plain wrong.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

Do you think that they both could admit that there is no gender equality in a work place? What implication for their careers would have to say that women aren't neither seen no treated as equal?

Lapka,

Most of what you wrote has absolutely nothing to do with what was written in the article, and many of the points you're trying to make are the same as points being made in the article.

^^ some points -yes. Many - no. General fleur of the article is "Go girls you have all the chances. Companies are trying to diversify. You can chose the job. You can negotiate the salary you want. Only thing you have to be is bold and good." That is so called half-truth, no .... not even half truth, significantly less than half truth, and ignoring all accompanying problems. And SOOOO different to the real experience.

Points with which I agree:
-"To be heard in that environment, Bovenzi said, she has to be more vocal -- and at times more "pushy" as she put it -- than she is by nature."
-"but a predominantly male culture has meant that companies have had a hard time retaining women long-term"
-"Once hired, female engineering and computer science grads are likely to find themselves very much in the minority."
-"pay gap",- but again... They make it sound, that it suffice to go and negotiate for more and this gap is gonna be closed. I disagree with that part.

Yes, this!
They are making it sound like the jobs are just waiting for women and equal opportunity and pay is ours for the taking which is total BS to reality.

MLY I have a hard time seeing you as an effective engineer. You are way too irrational and impatient.

I work with two female engineers and they are treated well and compensated very well. One was fast-tracked into upper management within two years of being hired as an entry level engineer. If you are competent then being a female is a positive attribute that definitely makes it easier to find a jerb. You posts make it sound like you can't find a job BECAUSE you're a woman, which is 100% not the problem.

These are Mech E's and Chem E's, not software/computer types btw.

I am not impatient, and the only thing I'm irrational about is relationships. I generally love working and what I am doing, and I always get hyper focused on whatever it might be that I'm working on. Don't be biased on what my work style might be because I spent two years in a bad relationship. I'm not saying I can't find a job 100% because I'm a woman, but me being a woman does make it -EV for me.
I just interviewed for a job that is a perfect fit for me; I could step in and be a badass right out of the gate, but a guy has a better shot because the company is all men.

I mean really if companies were hiring women all the time there wouldn't have to be laws to force companies to hire women.

This just sounds to me like a defense mechanism to let yourself down gently if you don't get the job. If you keep up this victim mentality you'll never get anywhere.

Hmmm, what's the title of this thread again?

Edit: just re-read some of the OP

Are you really this delusional or just trolling now?

Those scores were in no way accurate and I was calling him out on his BS. Even the guys I worked with were like WTF when I talked to them about it and we compared bonuses.