"wanting to watch porn is normal. sorry that it bothers you. why were you invading my privacy by looking at my browsing history?" key is be calm and don't apologize. if she says pervert or anything like it say "all men watch porn. sorry that it bothers you."

if you aren't getting laid enough, get her to agree that most couple have sex twice a week on average, and agree that you'll have that much sex. then get 104 stickers and a calendar and mark that **** up. everybody says "about twice a week, but NO ONE 30+ and married with kid(s) gets laid twice a week unless they do this.


my guess is she doesn't orgasm with vaginal sex, and you don't bother to find alternate ways of getting her off.

2 times a week? wat?

My fave comment thus far is comparing fapping to tax evasion.

So is fappin with eyes closed remembering my nympho hs gf at prom wrong? Where is the fapline drawn? To fap or not to fap?

Reason # 23547 that I'm never getting married.

If the wife feels hurt and inadequate they need to do like pongo says and at least talk about it if not go to sexual therapy.

Have you heard the old adage: "Show me the most beautiful taken woman in the world and I'll show you a man that's tired of ****ing her?" That's the way human men have been selected over time to be.

The biblical concept of marriage has permeated into society and coupled with the women's movement it has led society to believe that men and women should be monogamous. But news flash, ladies. For men, that simply isn't biologically natural. Any man that adheres to this lifestyle is either a) very religious b) very undesirable to the entire female population minus one or c) very stupid

However, some men have decided to value the support in their lives that a steady relationship can provide, be it emotional, financial, physical whatever. But just because they do doesn't mean they are suddenly deprogrammed to not want to **** other women. Ladies, porn IS the compromise. They value what they're getting from you and meet the sexual needs without going to another woman. They're willing to keep providing what you desire and receiving what you give. You WILL be the the total most-important part of his life. But once he has had sex with you a few times it's just not in the cards to be the central focus of his sex life anymore.

Fun nurture and society/pop culture vs. nature argument tho.

Not sure. Depends on what you can defend in your next (inevitable) masturbatory audit.

I can only speak for myself but the orgasm achieved from masturbation is significantly less powerful than that achieved from sexual acts with a woman. I masturbate because sex is unavailable to me at the moment: wife not in the mood, on a plane, etc.

I would assume that it would lower the desire to pursue sex with her -- specifically to do the all the precursors that are needed to increase the likelihood of her being in the mood. I would also be worried that it would lead to a situation where his expectations of sex would be influenced by porn.

I find daily high but I really have nothing to base that on. The only time I got to observe frequency the young guys were on a every few days (4-5 days) and the older guys were almost never. That isn't a reliable measure though since they knew they were being observed.

Man, Canada has some weird reality shows.

Same for me. If the wife was willing and available for sex every time I got horny I could easily give up masturbation for life.

You bet on weird things Henry.

I think you must have left out some words or worded this incorrectly. Show me a man pretty much makes this a tautology since I figure the number of women beautiful or not and taken or not who have not actually had at least one man pursue them is a very small number.

I think your point is to stress the taken and to imply that men want what they cannot have. That is a load of crap. If a girl is hot her being taken does not dissuade me from being interested but her being taken in no way makes her more desirable. The only way I can see that being true is if she was taken either by someone of high social worth and that by getting her to cheat with me I would get some perverse form of affirmation or if she was taken by someone I knew and did not like.

The idea that we are at the mercy of biology is just a cop-out. If your agency doesn't make biological urges meaningless then that is a pretty sad situation.

The second claim is even more comical. The reason guys seek other sexual partners is boredom because of sexual incompatibility. Here it is guys getting what they reap by fostering a mentality of judging women who embrace their sexuality sluts and not "marriage material" and then wondering why their sex lives is not exciting. Find a girl who is comfortable with her sexuality and who has similar sexual tastes as yourself and you'll have no issues with monogamy.

A buddy of mine made an excellent analogy for this. Masturbating is like listening to music, sex is like making music. Making music is great but even the greatest composers like to listen to something besides themselves every once and a while.

You misunderstand me twice. Firstly, the point about a taken woman is: if she is the wife her own husband is tired of ****ing her. If she is the gf then her own bf is tired of ****ing her...

Secondly, I have made 0, zero, none, assertions to label women with regards to their sexual promiscuity. I'm completely fine with having an open relationship and believe it or not there exist women with whom this is also the case.

My quarrel is not with the fairer sex, it's with the institution of marriage which is an outdated concept that most modern men willingly accept without giving serious thought to it. I'm not going to throw detailed religion and politics into this discussion but the reasons are pretty obvious.

Bottom line, intelligence, thought, trial and error, and FFS communication are essential to one's beliefs on positive relationships. If you don't know who you are first and find happiness in that individual, how can you ever expect to find it with someone else? This is what I see OP's problem to be. It's his own ambivalence on his feelings as a man. His confidence in himself.

And please to be explaining to me how natural selection is a cop out? I mean, we're here having this conversation aren't we?

Ok I would not have gotten to this from what you wrote. I agree it is generally true but I don't believe it is a necessary result. It happens because people are doing it wrong.

I didn't say you did. I said guys do. I think it would be pretty hard to argue that men don't bash women for this. If you don't believe me just look at any OOT topic involving women.

I actually was going to broach the topic that the trend is actually away from monogamy for both men and women in my original response but figured that would just add another tangent to an already pretty difficult to manage topic. I have no problems with this and think it is actually likely beneficial assuming you are dealing with two people who are both secure. My only objection is that you said men were programed to not be monogamous which is different than both men and women can under correct conditions get more satisfaction out of having a non-monogamous or third-party inclusive relationship. .

That is because of what people make of marriage not marriage itself. Like I said above I see the trend moving away from this and I don't have any of the negative connotations that people here have. If marriage was like it is described on OOT I would say run and any guy who gets married is ******ed. People suck at marriages and women are culturally conditioned in a way that makes it even worse -- put garbage in you get garbage out. Like I said though the trend is clearly away from this and I think if you could travel into the future 20-30 years your opinion of marriage would be very different.

Too many tangents but I basically view EP for higher order thinking to be just something people pull out to excuse their behaviour. I'm a big fan of agency trumps all when it comes to humans.

I'd like to refute any and all of that but I find myself nodding my head in agreement. We're obviously agreed on where to tackle the issue instead of arguing forever the merits of each of our conclusions.

Hey OP, this is what you and your wife should do. State your opinions and then figure out the differences in opinion on the processes that lead to the end result of dissatisfaction. If two OOT poasters that have never said word 1 to each other can do it I imagine you should be able to do it with your wife, yeah?

You don't post much, but have been around long enough to know that although this is a poker site, poker references = fail

Did OP ever clarify that his wife's issue was actually with masturbation, and not with porn specifically? There's too much equating of those two things, imo, and way too many conclusions being drawn from that.

There's a not insignificant number of women that dislike porn, while having little or no problem with masturbating.

Porn only 1000%

this.

no. this is worse.

if she realizes you want it more than she does and she doesn't feel like doing it more than she wants do, you think she'd be encouraging you to watch more porn. Sorry if this was already stated, but is she okay with you masturbating and her problem is just with porn? If so, what does she expect you to do? Is she willing to "help", even just being visual stimuli that doesn't take any effort for her.

Is tugging porn-free really that big of an issue?

Would she really be OK with you jerking off to non-porn pictures of other women (Swimsuit/Victoria Secret/etc)?

I would guess it's the imagination of sex with other women that angers her.

That's what I'm saying

just when you thought it wasnt gonna get any more pathetic...

OP?

I guess this makes sense, as male masturbation tends to approximate sex, more or less, while female masturbation is perhaps approximating foreplay, and often doesn't involve penetration at all, and therefore isn't really a sex substitute.

Does this mean though, that if every time you needed to get off you would be willing not only to meet your own needs, but also to help your wife get hers met as well? I think part of the benefit of masturbation is that you don't need to worry about pleasing anyone else. I'm sure there are some times where you just want to get off and then get on with your day, and masturbation is a much better release for that than having sex with another person and all the extra work that entails.

Or maybe that's just me.