Well a lot of my friends are already successful writers so we read each others stuff just to give notes and feedback. But in the situation you describe, I would send the script to my agent with an email saying that this was a friend of mine and they are a good guy and this script is really good and they're looking for representation and please give it a read, etc. That about all I can do.

Got the contract for the pilot, and half of me thinks it's pretty standard, but the other half of me has no idea what the hell is going on

I am to write the pilot, and a handful of treatments for a set fee. That part is fine, and I'm also to be pushed hard for 3 episodes minimum, and possibly for the position of head writer. Fees for those 3, and any other eps, will be compensated differently.

From what I've read online, some writers of a pilot are pushed as a head-writer by the producers, or similar, but not guaranteed to be so. The network can either produce the pilot, bring in a team of writers that they want, and never look back. They can also chuck the pilot that the writer wrote, and use their team. Or, it can go that the pilot I write is produced and I become the head writer (or a higher level staff writer) or whatever.

I obviously want the latter.

I'm guessing the standard situation for penning a pilot is that most up-and-coming writers have no say in what their future role in the show is, do they? Based on their performance, they might be able to get what they're wanting. But the contract for the pilot has nothing to do with the remainder of the series, does it?

Of course, some contracts will stipulate that the writer of the pilot is to be involved, but that can mess up negotiations with the network for the show itself. I know that if I had a successful track record, I'd have some wiggle room, but right now I think I just have to look at this pilot and treatments as one thing, and my future in the show to be dealt with later. At least on a contractual basis. By that, I mean that I can't have them put in the contract that I am to be the head-writer (or whatever) and shouldn't even ask. Is that a good route to take?

I think that I'll just have to do the absolute best work I can possilby do, and hope that everything falls into place for me to be "the guy" for this show in the future.

Typically, there is no guarantee for the writer of a pilot to be the head writer. Once a network buys the pilot from the writer, they own it and can do whatever they want. That includes firing you and bringing in someone else. Usually, that doesn't happen but it certainly can and has. As far as a newcomer like yourself being the head writer, it depends. If it's a big network show they would almost always bring in someone with more experience to be the head writer while retaining you as a high level writer. If it's a cable situation, they still may do that but there's more of a chance of you being the head writer with maybe a very small staff.

Carlie from It's Always Sunny is a friend of mine and they wrote and shot that pilot with virtually no writing experience. FX then bought it from them and made them the head writers. I don't even think they had a writing staff in the first season, it was just them. It's a little different bc they were also the stars so it's much more their baby, but for cable shows with a smaller-scale production you are more likely to be made head writer of your own pilot even with relatively little experience.

As far as the contracts, yeah I think you just have to hope for the best. It'd be nice if you could get in touch with an agent to help you through this and possibly rep you. Maybe try looking calling up an entertainment lawyer and see if they can help out. If not, just do your best and dont' be too pushy. You don't want to pull a George Constanza with NBC. It's more important that you seal this deal and keep this thing moving forward than get a great contract. If this goes, you can hopefully parlay that into getting repped by an agent and then you won't have to worry about this stuff in the future.

The friend I listed above (the script doctor) has been the go-between for me and the lead actor/co-creator this entire time since he's dealt with these kinds of things before. I told him my concerns, which at first seemed menial. The deeper I read, the more I didn't like it. Once my friend read it, he was pretty peeved at it as well.

The main guy I've been dealing with agreed with us. He also said that the contract was given to him to give to us at the same time the script was given to him to give to the company. We're fixing it right now. Once the new contract is signed, I'll list some specifics on what was in the contract, but it was pretty terrible.

It's looking a ton better now, but this stage sucks massive ball sacks. I totally agree with you that sealing the deal is better then a great contract. I'm glad my script doctor friend has assumed the role of my agent in this.

Say there are a few of us with zero writing experience. But we have good script ideas (yeah , I know, everyone does, right?).

How important is format of the script? I get that our words on the paper might be the exact same as properly formatted one, but I also could see agents/hnics not taking time to read stuff that isn't in the correct style.

Are there a lot of esoteric things that could prevent a layperson from getting taken seriously?

I'd say that the format is incredibly important if you're wanting someone other then a friend to read it. And if that friend is a screenwriter, then their first critique would probably be that it's not properly formatted. Get Final Draft, or similar, and that issue is pretty much fixed.

For the 2nd question, I'd stay away from going too far with camera directions (you're not the director, unless you are), action lines being way too long, and being overly descriptive when there is no reason to be. For instance:

That's a huge exaggeration (and a horrible scene) but you get the idea. If you're a known screenwriter with a known style, you can do whatever you want. But until then, stay away from simple stuff like that. There's a bunch of these little things that can do wonders for your work.

I wanted to edit the "scene?" above but it won't let me. So here is my newer version.

so basically, what you're saying to novices in screenwriting is just write the dialogue

No, not at all.

Those 3 things I listed are pretty important. Follow those and write what you're wanting to.

I'm sure Fsoyars has more and better advice, but those 3 things were the first things that were told to me after my first script and it's helped a ton.

Yeah basically what DC said. It is very important that your script is formatted correctly. Make sure you use Final Draft or Movie Magic. I'd recommend FDR. It's what most people use. If you no nothing about formatting, just go buy any book on screenwriting that lays out the formatting rules for you and just follow that. It's slightly different for movies, single camera TV and multicamera TV. If you have specific questions regarding formatting feel free to ask and I'll answer them for you.

As far as the esoteric thing - not sure what you're really getting at. I think if you know the basic formatting and read any intro to screenwriting type book, you should be fine.

If you have a mac, CeltX is a free program that does some pretty cool **** with regards to formatting. I'm starting to write as well, as I'm starting to quickly realize that freelance set work is going to slowly drive me ****ing insane.

I mean, I'd never advocate doing anything illegal but I don't think it's too hard to find Final Draft on the internet for free as well.

great thread, loving your insight on the industry. Couple questions:

do you carry around something like a notepad with you at all times to write down ideas much like other comics/writers?

is it really as hard as people think to break into the entertainment industry? do you know of a lot of aspiring writers that are still toiling as an assistant and have no shot?

when you write a character, do you get to weigh in on the casting process of that character? I would imagine that the writers vision of this character is really important, and if the wrong person gets cast, the funny could go out the window.

did you make the obligatory 'its like a sweatshop in here!!' joke for your sweatshop sitcom pilot?

why don't comedy shows just get tons of hot chicks to be on the show. even if the show sucks, it will survive on that alone. that's my 2 cents.

sweet man, grats

1. Yes, but I just use the notes app in my iphone. But yes it is filled with lots of random ideas and what not.

2. Yeah unfortunately I do know quite a few of those guys. But at the same time I know plenty of people who have gone from assistant level to professional writer level. If you are relatively talented, you will learn a lot being an assistant and make the right connections so that it's not actually that much of a longshot to break through.

3. As a lower level staff writer, if you create a side character for a show you will certainly get input into the casting, but ultimately the decision is made by the showrunner and the network. The showrunner ultimately makes the decision, it just comes down to the best person you can get within your usually limited budget. If you are well known, respected and have connections to funny actors, that goes a long way to getting the right person cast. It was amazing the kind of big names we could get on Running Wilde bc of Mitch compared to the other shows I worked on.

4. No.

Good call. I'm going to pitch Girls Gone Wild the sitcom next chance I get.

obv. missed opportunity.



thanks for the responses. couple more:

do you write everything with your partner? do you have some things that you do yourself?

also, how did you meet your partner? are there ever any issues about one person pulling more weight than the other, or fighting over the rights to a joke, ect.?

in your opinion, do women writers get different, or special treatment? I have heard things that women comedy writers are somewhat rare, so the ones that show any talent, might ascend through the ranks faster than a man with the same skills.

I kept a pad and pen with me at all times for awhile, since 10-key entry style notes are hard to keep. I'd forget my idea while trying to type words like "moon" and "high".

I now have a crappy phone with no apps but it has a keyboard, so I use that now. 130 character limit and can only have 20 of those at a time, so I fill it up often. I have a file on my desktop that I type them all into. It's at about 370 various ideas and I'm about to add another 15.

how degenerate is hollywood? especially the lives of those in comedy?

i went to a show at the laugh factory. some of it was really funny, and im no conservative, but some of the late night comedy was just totally grotesque. it was like a month after giffords got shot and the guy was making some really tasteless jokes.

also, it seems pretty common to read about this or that actor etc turning into a drug addict, etc.

is hollywood pretty awful or can you avoid most of the insanity, or is it all overblown?

You can easily avoid that type of stuff. I've been in the music industry for about 10 years, and it's never been a problem for me. "It's" all over the place and is easy to get involved with those types, but if you don't want to, it doesn't matter. I got that **** out of my system long before I ever moved to Hollywood.

I think the reason a lot of comedians end up going down that road is that they live to be on stage. it's very similar to musicians in that their best moments are on stage in front of a roaring crowd. Nothing else can match that high, so they get as close as they can with other substances. I wouldn't include weed in that category at all, FTR. It's one of the reasons why the jazz musician's of old were heroin addicts.

1. Yes. Don't know if it will always be that way, but for now we write everything together, as long as it's TV or movie related. If I were to try to write a novel or something, I would write that by myself.

2. He and I were writers assistants together on two different shows. One was a FOX sitcom called "Quintuplets" starring Andy Richter and the other was another FOX sitcom called "The War At Home" with Michael Rappaport. No issues. We are both very easy going and willing to compromise, which is key to a successful writing partnership. Fighting over the rights to a joke is nowhere near a possibility. We're a team and would never be so petty. Of course we disagree at times and argue but it's never become a blow up or gotten out of hand. In general, claiming ownership of a joke in TV comedy writing is considered a little gauche.

3. Well most shows, at least network shows, have to hire at least one woman writer (and usually a diversity hire as well). So, if you call that special treatment, then yes. The fact that it's slightly easier for them to be hired (if they're good) may lead to them ascending the ranks quicker over the course of their career from show to show, but I've never experienced or heard of a woman getting promoted over a man on a specific show unfairly.

It's probably more degenerate than most industries but nothing like it supposedly was like back in the day. Some of the writers I work with talk about it being common on 80's sitcoms to have coke out on the writers room table regularly. Drinking in writers rooms isn't standard but it's definitely not uncommon.

I won't name names but on Running Wilde one writer went into the bathroom to smoke weed at least two or three times a day. Everyone knew what he was doing and joked about it. It wasn't a big deal.

A year ago my partner and I had a general meeting with an ABC executive. At the end of the meeting we mentioned getting a drink sometime. Didn't talk to him for a year. A couple weeks ago he emails us saying he wants to get that drink. We agree. Next thing we know he tells us he's going reserve a table at a notoriously divey strip club downtown for the three of us and his assistant will set it up. That's fine with us and we are up for that kind of thing but we found it hilarious that he just ASSUMED that that would be a perfectly fine thing to do without asking us first. Maybe we just come off as scuzzy. Going next week and if anything hilarious happens I'll provide a TR.

But in general if you're not into partying or whatever, it's not an issue at all. Plenty of low key, family people that I've worked with. But you definitely can't be uptight about the things people joke about. Writers rooms are considered "safe areas" and people basically make all kinds of off color jokes in there bc it's understood that's in all in good fun. Women definitely have to be ok with dudes making some pretty blue jokes. I worked with a girl who was sensitive about that ****. She got fired and the showrunner was a woman. But also, she sucked.

can you work in even the smallest nod to 2p2 in your show?

Difficult to do on Beavis and Butthead bc Mike Judge imrpovs so much of the dialogue. But the next show I'm on I will definitely try. Might have to put up a poll for which 2p2 meme to use.