ok, fso... i don't know how to say your name

Is it true all half hour pilots are written in 4 act structure now because the networks are selling ad space?

What's hot right now? The same ol' generic family sitcom crap? I have 2 pilots but I wrote them in the Office/Parks style, which I'm sure isn't getting any more love despite the fact Modern Family uses it and is huge.

Should I think about reworking the format and making them 4 acts? they each have a cold open and a tag, so technically they are pretty much 4 acts already.

This is film related but - what do you think about the new black list submission process? people are getting repped, but I hear that it's pretty much insiders and people who were going to be repped anyway.

I don't know what else I've got, but you're going to regret allowing me to ressurect this thread.

Someone should turn that bitter couple in the Directv commercials into a sitcom. ("Bob you look like a brie man if I've ever seen one"). I would watch that in a heartbeat.

10% to me if you run with my idea.

eff soy yers (f stands for franklin, my first name. soyars is my middle name. not very creative, I know.)

Most shows that are on the air are 4 acts these days. Yes, it's to have more commercial breaks. We wrote our pilots as three acts because we prefer that. It doesn't really matter that much. I've seen pilots this year that are both 3 and 4.

Imo "what's hot" is sort of pointless bc every pilot season it's something different and never reflects what actually makes it to air. Before Modern Family everyone wanted more mass-appeal multicams like CBS was so successful with. After Modern Family everyone wanted more singlecams... like Modern Family. Now NBC wants to get away from their niche, "smart" shows and do more CBS style mutlis. "Too many young ensembles" we recently heard. "There are no good workplace comedies." "We have too many workplace scripts." "Don't pitch anything more about the economy." I was talking about this with an exec at ABC who told me "None of it really matters. At the end of the pilot season, we go with the stuff that's funniest." We pitched a lot of stuff this year and none of it had anything to do with what might have been hot and the two things we sold I'm pretty sure weren't the hot things, whatever that is. Just write what you want to write and what you would watch. If it's good, it won't matter if it's not perfect for the marketplace, good things will come of it. We got our break on a pilot about a Sweatshop.

I don't think many people do Act 1 - Act 4. Usually four acts refers to Act 1 - Act 3 + Tag or Cold Open + Act 1 - Act 3. It's just a question of whether you will have two breaks (3 acts) or 3 breaks (4 acts). Totally up to you, I would do whatever serves your story best.

Don't know anything about it. Just googled it. If it doesn't cost a lot, I guess it's worth a shot. Who exactly is going to read it? And if people are already "insiders" and going to be repped anyway, why are they submitting?

I enjoy this thread as long as I'm not super busy which I'm not atm.

thanks for the answers.

You let me read your script a while back and I loved it (thanks for remembering me... dick.)

ovbiously, I'm kidding. That script definitely inspired me though. It was the type of humor I like and want to write, so knowing that got the praise it deserved and opened doors for you made me at least feel like there may be a chance someday.

Why are most sitcom episodes written by a large group while longer movie scrips are generally done by a single person?

Pressure to churn out tv episodes quickly is probably a lot of it but I suspect there's something else I'm not thinking of.

No, I think it's mostly what you said. TV just requires more volume in less time. One person can conceive, pitch and write a movie over a year or so and that can sustain them for a year. And the process for films is just longer. It would be pretty hard for one person to write 22 episodes of TV in a year while also being the showrunner, dealing with all the production stuff, etc.

Tl;dr
Cliffs, is 30 too late?
(I expect not, but would like to hear yours and others thoughts)

Thanks a lot for doing this thread. I'm only up to post 150, but m very excited. I wanted to start a thread asking a lot of the Qs your answering already.

I just turned 30, but I've been talking about quitting poker and doing something I enjoy instead of just grinding for money. I'm inspired by the 10,000 hour rule and my own general interest in MOST things. I've been thinking for a year (maybe a decade+, poker is nice for that) about what I want to do. I've always been interested in writing and (with a recent intensity ) film making; film making class in college changed my view of the world in a strong way that I can feel to this day.

I'm interested in writing and production the most, but I'm really interested in every aspect. I've done some open mic comedy (successfully twice, bombing the third lol). I'm from Pittsburgh which is setting itself up as a film making hub; they're is a lot of unused talent in Pittsburgh and a cheap cost of living, etc.

I have a lot of ideas films I want to make. Some are skits, a few ideas that are non-comedy ideas that are profit driven, and finally a couple ideas that just need to be made; like "idiocracy" they probably won't be very profitable, but opposite to idiocracy my best film idea's message predicts a near future that would embrace said movie.

Cliffs:
how would you get started at 30? I just want to spend a few months studying the industry and process online while writing and see where things go. If I could get the attention of a production company right away I would do that. I won't need income for a few years, how realistic is a bootstrap approach of just making things with friends, scrounging around for funding and putting content up online until I can get ad revenue or studio attention?

Have you looked into my idea with the bitter Directv couple yet? Maybe LFS represents one of them.

the woman's name is Gillian Vigman, she's in a lot of good stuff.

If I were you I would be writing as much as I can. Read Save the Cat for feature scripts. If you're interested in TV pilot structure, I can help you. Otherwise, yes I would do what you already seem to be thinking of which is just making stuff with your friends and getting it online and submitting to festivals. If there is a burgeoning production scene in Pittsburgh, try to make as many contacts within that industry as you can. Just get out there and get involved in any way you can and be proactive and usually good things will happen. 30 is not too late at all.

Not familiar with that ad off the top of my head but I'm sure LFS knows who the actors are.

edit: of Conz

fsoyars, what are you working on now?

We have pilots at NBC and FOX. Sat out staffing this year to focus on development and did our first round of pilot pitching, which was fun and hard and stressful. Ended up selling something to FOX which we are planning to shoot in March (although it's far from official at this point and the pessimist in me is still sure it will fall through) and also sold something to NBC (studios) which they are currently submitting to networks (all 4) and we're awaiting word.

Midway through the season we also joined an ABC mid-season called How to Live With Your Parents for the Rest of Your Life, a singlecam starring Brad Garrett and Sarah Chalke. It's set to premiere in April after Modern Family. We were part time on that, doing two days a week on the show, the rest of the time working on our development. We wrapped that around Halloween and have just been focusing on our pilots since then.

Great thread fsoyars!

I'm in roughly the same boat as riverspecialist, although I'd also like to get into sketch comedy writing as well as TV writing. I've only been doing it for about 6 months, but write/act/direct for two sketch groups in Boston, do 2-4 feature shows a month at one of the two Improv theaters, and in the process of filming sketches to submit to comedy festivals. I'm well-aware getting big hits on Youtube/College Humor/Funny or Die are great ways to promote yourself, but I haven't seen any script contests for sketches. I'm not interested in acting, so are there any other ways for my writing to be recognized other than luckboxing into a major player from a network seeing a show I put on or what I mentioned previously?

Really cool you're doing this thread, OP. I almost ended up doing (or aspiring to do) pretty much what you do, I enrolled for an Australian uni for screen writing and got in but then found poker at the wrong time.

What's your take on the "laugh track" (sorry I'm scandi and don't know the official word), you know the prerecorded audience laugh after a joke in most sitcoms? I feel like ultimately the genre would be better without it and it would challenge writers more because they couldn't rely on the group laugh effect, but then again I'd also worry that removing it from shows would make writers write more obvious jokes because dumb americans wouldn't know when to laugh on more complicated shows.


GL with everything and thanks again for doing this!

If you are talking about sketch writing specifically, I really don't know. If your goal is to write sketch comedy for TV, I think you're doing the right thing, which is just being as involved and active as you can in that scene. Hopefully you will eventually make a connection to an agent, producer or executive who will take a look at your sketch packet. If you just want to write for TV in general, there's also the ABC Writing Fellowship and Warner Bros Writers' Workshop which are basically contests for TV writing and the winners get staffed on shows.

Pure laugh tracks are pretty rare these days. Most multicam sitcoms are filmed in front of live audiences and the laughter you hear is real. The producers manipulate it in post to best fit the scenes, sometimes augmenting it with canned laughter or lowering the laughter if it is too much.

I personally don't mind it. If the show is a singlecam without laughter or a multi with it, as long as it's funny I don't really care.

As far as how the presence of the audience affects a writer's writing, I'd say if anything it's harder to write for a live audience. There is instant feedback on the comedy and if something bombs it must be rewritten on the fly, while shooting. For singlecam, the only feedback writers get on their jokes is the other writers in the room, until the show airs. So, they end up just writing whatever they think is funny, regardless of whether or not real, actual people agree with them.

I'm sure you've heard about the 90 episodes in 2 years schedule for Anger Management. What do you think of that schedule, and what do you think the most challenging aspect of that will be for the people involved? If you were on that show, and were told you had to come up with 45 scripts in a year, would you be freaked, or would it be no big deal (do you think they'll double the staff to get it done?)? Do you think the quality will suffer a lot, based on how many they have to do, in such a short time?

Also, on a sitcom, what's the typical writing/production schedule, these days, start to finish? If you could include writing time, shooting, post, etc., it would be great info to learn.

Sounds like a dream job other than the potential nightmare of working with Sheen (disclaimer: I've never seen the show and have heard nothing about the work environment). The more episodes that are ordered, the more a writer gets paid. And to have a 90 ep commitment is unheard of. Outside of a few long-running shows, that kind of job security is extremely rare. The only potential downside would be if they have the writers working year round. On a 22 episode season, writers work from June - March and are free from March - May, which allows them to work on pilots or other side projects or just go on vacation. It would suck to lose that hiatus.

I don't think producing twice as many shows in a year would be twice as hard. It's typically network and studio noting process that slows up the writing process. Assuming FX is lowering their level of noting to accomodate this order, I doubt the writers will find it that hard to pump out that many scripts. But, if Sheen is difficult or the network is throwing out story areas, it could potentially be hell on earth, writing through the night, on weekends, etc. But then again, that can happen on any show.

Do you mean over the course of a season or an individual episode? Season schedules vary a lot these days but traditionally...

Writers start at the beginning of June. June - August is pre-production, where writers are breaking stories and writing the initial scripts. The first table read is mid-August and that's when production starts. Writing and production continue through early March when the writers wrap up. Post production continues for a couple weeks after that.

Per episode? Story areas are continually being broken, some fall away some get pursued. Eventually a story area doc (one page) is sent to the studio or maybe is verbally pitched. It must be approved by the studio and then by the network. Once it is approved, a writer is assigned to this episode and they write an outline, which might take a day or two. The outline is sent to the studio and network who both give notes. From story area to outline approval might take a week. Once the outline is approved, the writer is sent off to write the script, usually given one week. The script is then rewritten in the room over another few days to a week. Then it's sent to the studio who gives notes and is rewritten again. Then the same with the network. This all might take another few days. Finally, it's ready for the table read. From the day of the table read, it's one week exactly until production is wrapped for that episode. Then, it's one more week of post. So, from the time a story area is submitted to the time post is wrapped might be like 5-6 weeks.

Also do you know why they are making 90 episodes in 2 years?

They probably want to get Sheen in and out as fast as possible, as one possible reason.

I've been involved in stuff that had to deliver massive volume over a short period of time (we once had to re-package a 1980s magazine show, and delivered, with new VO and music, 135 shows in about 3 months), and I think it's a bit constraining, because it's the only thing you can work on. For what you do, I think that's a good thing, but for the technical people it can really screw up a lot of things. My guess is that the writers would have to work year round, unless they already have a ton of scripts in the can (making the ambitious schedule easier to do). It's probably the one production I would like to know a lot more about, but I doubt it's an "open" production about how it's being done.

The other interesting thing is that it's a high production value multi-cam show (visually and sound wise, it seems pretty close to network level). It's using Charlie McDaniel as the Re-Recording Mixer (my field), who is arguably the top sitcom mixer, these days. That guy has so much work, I don't know how they would be able to continue to use him, and in my brief research I did on the show, there are similar high end people being used in other technical crafts. It seems to me that the production value will suffer, just much less than it would if a single cam tried to do that kind of schedule.

Too bad we'll probably never know how it's gone, or is going to go. Since it's multi-cam, they probably got a good flow going, and think they can repeat the quality with new people filling the shoes. Since it's an FX show, I doubt whatever post facilities are handling it would put it to the front of the line above other network sitcoms (I have no idea where McDaniel works, actually). I used to badly want to mix sitcoms, too bad my one potential opportunity never worked out (Todd-AO Radford in 2001). It's amazing how many shows the big sitcom mixers do at apparently the same time. Good work if you can get it.

I specifically meant individual episodes, but thanks for filling that in, as well. For post, the seasons typically used to go September-April, with a Pilot season in April, if I remember correctly, with staffing for the regular season in August (last time I was near this was in the 90s, so things might have changed a bit). If you weren't working in September, you could forget getting a job with a post house until at least the following Pilot season.

Are you able to describe exactly what the story area doc is in a little more detail?

If I'm not mistaken, most of your work is in single cam, which this sounds like the schedule of (it sounds like the production schedule, meaning shooting, is roughly half or a little more of what a hour long drama would be). Do you know how much shorter the (after writing has been signed off on) process is for multi-cam, and how they go about shooting those? Is it just something they rehearse like a play, and then go out and get it shot in one day, with a couple of days post? That was really informative, all that you wrote, thanks for taking the time.

No but nunnehi's guess is a good one. Also, every network's goal with a show is to get it to syndication, which I believe you need at least something like 80 episodes to do. So, committing to 90 would give them that. Still seems like a really big risk though.

Usually the story area doc is no more than 2 or 3 pages. It's divided into A-story, B-story, etc. Written in paragraph form, it simply tells what the broad beats of each story are without too much detail. Sometimes the theme of the story or episode is written before each section. It's just used to get the studio/network to sign off on the general area and shape of the story.

I've worked on both multi and single and the schedules are pretty much the same. The multi shooting schedule is typically like this (Day 1 is usually Monday but doesn't have to be):

Day 1: Table read
Day 2: Rehearsal/blocking, then producer's run through
Day 3: Rehearsal/blocking, then network run though
Day 4: Preshoot
Day 5: Live audience show

A run through is basically a rehearsal that people watch with a notes session following. Day 2 producer's run through is for the writers and the studio with the studio giving the writers notes afterwards. Day 3 is the same but with the network. After each run through and note session, the writers rewrite the script.

Preshoot refers to shooting anything that can't be shot in front of the audience because it's on location or involves some kind of special effect or simply to save time. Whatever is preshot is played back to the audience on monitors and their laughter is recorded. The live audience show varies in length and # of scenes but usually 75% or so of the script is shot in front of the audience. Typically it starts around 5 PM and runs till around 10 or so but can easily go longer. Each scene is usually shot 3 or 4 times, sometimes with different jokes. There is a "warm up" guy, basically a stand up comedian who keeps the audience's energy up in between takes and does crowd work/lame magic tricks/feeds them candy/etc. He also walks them through what's happening on stage and tells them to laugh even when they've already seen the scene a couple times.

In single, shooting pretty much starts right after the table read (or maybe the next day) and continues throughout the week. Obviously, there is no audience. But in both cases it takes 5 days to shoot the episode. Not sure about post time, you'd think it'd be less for multi but I'd guess it's pretty similar.

Most writers prefer the singlecam schedule because there are no run throughs, which means there are no notes given at 5pm, which means there is no rewrite that goes late into the night. In single, there are very few notes after the table read and virtually no more rewriting. Days tend to be shorter and we tend go home earlier.

Wow, awesome info, thanks.

Do they record any of the rehearsal run through days on multi-cams to tape? Or do they just do do tech rehearsals, as well, but not record to tape? I got to see the Roseanne mixing room at CBS, back in the late 90s (at least that's the show I thought it was, can't remember for sure), and it was right off the set, like how they did the soap operas, so I was wondering if they pretty much do the run throughs to tape, as well? If so, does any of the run through stuff ever make it to air?