Well, I finally made it to the end and suffering a bit of a letdown....took me a couple of weeks. For someone like myself who flies 200K a year, I appreciate the insight you've provided.

I, also, think this TSA business is more of a scam than anything else. Remember when you couldn't carry a lighter on board? How many times was my lighter taken away? Maybe once, considering I traverse TSA twice a week. We just need to do it like they do in Tel Aviv if we want to be serious, but can you imagine what would happen if we tried that? talk about crying?

So, here's my first question. I'm thinking about the underwear bomber and how they keep trying to bring down a plane. I'm not trying to be morbid, or give anybody ideas, but it seems to me (as a chemist) that you could do some real damage with a chemical bomb of some sort that gave off cyanide gas or something similarly toxic. THE QUESTION is, if something like this were to happen, say one of the FA's comes on the intercom and tells you that some ne'er-do-wells have mixed up a "bomb" and turned the plane into a gas chamber and you're at flying altitude......what would/could you do? You can't just roll down the window and air out the cabin, or can you? Would the O2 masks help? Have you ever thought of this?

Related question....have you ever said to yourself or other pilots, "If they really wanted to take down a plane, they'd _____________"

Thanks,
Randidliyo


p.s. Can this poker site help you find home games in your hometown?

How do you calm down babies like me that fly? I have only been on two flights for the last three years and it scares me to death. Hate flying. The last time I was on a flight, I cried the entire seat and wouldn't let go of my BF's hand.

This thread is so fascinating that I registered a new account just to ask some questions. Hope you don't mind! I don't think these questions have been asked, but forgive me if I missed something.

Since you said your early experiences as a pilot were spent flying around the Northeast:
Did you ever stop over at Reading? (RDG)
They still host an impressive WWII weekend and the Mid Atlantic Air Museum. Unfortunately commercial operations stopped there in 2004 when US Airways pulled out.

Which brings me to my second question...
What is the strangest plane you've ever flown?

Back in the 80's I remember the Allegheny Commuter's flying into Reading and they all looked like some sort of bus with wings. I believe the one I'm thinking of was called a 'Shorts 330'. [link][link] I'm sure there are plenty of other bizarre looking planes out there that I don't know about, but that one sticks in my memory.

And my final question is similar:
What's the strangest airport you flew into?

I've heard that Wilksbarre-Scranton (AVP) [Map] is a little wierd because the runway elevation is so much higher than some of the surrounding terrain.

Obviously the first question is not relevant to everybody else here... just sort of personal curiosity for my favorite local airfield. I took (failed) ground school there when I was 14... Studying the gigantic FAR/AIM phonebook they gave me was about as exciting to a 14 year old as a sports physical. Always sort of kicked myself for not pursuing it again when I got older.

-TK

so I paid $99 over the phone and drove up to KHPN for my 11am discovery flight. mainly because w0x has given me the bug. I was met by a really nice instructor named Sam who took me out to the Cessna 172SP Skyhawk. We did a bunch of preflight stuff where he showed how the ailerons, flaps, rudder works as well as trim surfaces. he told me which wires' connection to look for to make sure the control surfaces were working properly (and where not to put your fingers). He stuck a little doohickey in 5 little holes under each wing to extract a bit of fuel making sure there was no air bubbles.

we got in the plane (i got the left seat) and we did a bunch more preflight checklist stuff...selecting both fuel tanks, checking the battery etc. After turning on the avionics Sam told me to put the key in and fire it off three clicks to the right. With the right mixture set the plane roared to life and we were good to go.

You have to steer the plane on the ground by braking the top left or right rudder pedal which is a little weird at first as i of course was trying to steer the plane with the yoke lol. typical n00b error i'm sure. Sam got the plane out of the parking lot and onto the taxiway where he basically gave me the control as we taxied. i was overcompensating a bit but got the hang of it pretty quickly.

We had to wait for a JetBlue flight to leave which was pretty cool. As we taxied towards runway 34 Sam said he was taking control and stopped the plane about 200 feet short of the runway and steering the plane so it was no longer facing the runway. I guess this is so just in case i'm a crazy person or terrorist i cant zoom the plane towards the runway as the Jet Blue went to take off.

After the Jet Blue takeoff Sam requested takeoff clearance and he told to add power until full and at about 55 knots rotate to takeoff then push the stick forward once in the air. So all that happened in a blur and pretty soon we were up and with a little left turn we were heading west right at the Tappan Zee Bridge. It really was absolutely awesome to be up there at the controls flying. Sam at this point was letting me know a few things but he was pretty much hands off and letting me fly.

Once I got about 1000 feet or so it was time to lower the nose a little bit so I pushed forward on the stick and was surprised at how much force was required to keep the nose down...maybe 10 pounds of pressure. Thats when Sam showed me a little rotary knob in the center that trims the airplane so you can fly without much or any pressure on the stick. I guess i havent realized yet that despite some oscillations back and forth the plane really just wants to fly straight and level. yet i was sorta rolling us back and forth and i mentioned this to sam and he joked yeah man you're really rocking me to sleep.

We got a few miles out and over the Hudson and I made a left turn and a right turn. Sam told me something about how I'm supposed to make one of the indicators on the garmin - its right in the middle -line up into a triangle. it was a little difficult to understand and process while i was looking at the view and snapping a few pictures but flying was definitely not difficult at all.

I made another left turn and we were pointed back towards the airport. Sam radioed for landing on runway 34 and we were told to enter left traffic. not sure what that meant really. we flew south towards the long island sound and had to fly the downwing leg a little longer than usual as we had to give way to a twin engine and a corporate jet that were coming in to land. sam said we were going to stay high for the landing (4 white dots on the thingy to the left of the runway) to avoid the wake turbulence. then sam put the throttle to idle.

i was kind of waiting for him to be like okay you just watch as i land the plane now, but he just gave me a little guidance as we approached and i kept control of the airplane. (he probably had his hand on the yoke too but i never once felt an input by him) i didnt realize when he did but sam extended the flaps and the runway started getting big and then really big and once over the threshold, Sam said to lift the nose and we touched down (no stall beeping) not really sure how fast at the time but it was fairly smooth, no bounce pretty much right down the centerline. i'm sure sam was helping out with some rudder inputs but overall it was my landing. we taxied off back towards the parking lot...tied the plane down and headed inside.

overall it really was a great experience and would recommend it to anyone.

Way to go Tony! Glad you enjoyed your discovery flight. Looks like a nice new plane too! I'm so jealous. The stuff I trained in was older than dirt, no gps, cracked dashboards, worn carpet! But I still loved every minute...

Ya gonna step up to the plate and start your lessons? I waited way to long to do it (20+years), but am glad I did.

plane has about 6000 hours on it

tomorrow at 9am i start

I just got back from Las Vegas this morning and leave for Bogota tonight at 12:30 am. I've got some posts to answer and I'll get to them either later today or Monday when I get back.

Meanwhile, here's an SR-71 story sent to me in email by a friend. I found it pretty interesting and thought some of you might too.

--------------

awesome story

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1250fZuhUg

In this clip on the SR-71 it says one key requirement for all pilots is that they be married.WOXOF, or anyone else, know why?

And thanks again for the great thread, pics, and stories WOXOF.

I second. Amazing that this thread continues to deliver. Thanks for your effort here.

Great story. In addition to the story itself I like how he, and most pilots and other similar professionals it seems, talks as though it is a sentient being.

I used google to try to find the lowest speed possible to stay up and thought this was somewhat amusing:



I eventually found this site which says:

Yes, this is consistent with his account. He mentioned that he was not comfortable with speeds less than 275 kts. When they found themselves under 160 kts, they weren't actually flying anymore...they were falling knife-edge to the ground. Until those afterburners kicked in, he probably had no aerodynamic control of the plane. They were very lucky to live to tell about this one.

Did you catch the reference to the "Habu" patch on their flight suits? The Habu is a southeast asian pit viper and it was in Okinawa that the locals started calling the SR-71 Habu because of its resemblance to the snake.




(Here's a good website for the SR-71.)

Silly, inane question: Do you say "tree," "fow-er," and "fife," or "three," "four," and "five?"

n00b takes lesson 1:

so after my discovery flight my instructor took me around and introduced me to a bunch of people - the director of the flight school, the check airman and a very very cute secretary at the front. i bought a FAA Airplane Flying Handbook and scheduled a two hour lesson for the next day (yesterday).

all my roommates packed it in from a heavy night of partying around 4am while I stayed in, woke up at 8 and headed up the major deegan to the hutch to 684 to westchester county airport and for the two hour lesson.

our plane today N2469F a cessna Skyhawk wasnt out in the main parking lot but parked between two hangars. Sam's keycard didn't work so that set us about 6 minutes behind while we waited to get that sorted out. Sam said that he was going to go through the preflight walk around so we could get to flying.

i'm starting to get the hang out the procedure for starting up...removing the control lock, taking off the combo lock protecting the throttle, making sure the fire extinguisher is in the green, selecting both fuel tanks, checking the battery, initializing the avionics, turning on the fuel pump checking oil temp, fuel etc,.

seemed easy enough, but when Sam told me to start up the engine which involves turning the key and selecting the right mixture to get the prop to roar to life...i messed that up and the prop started and stopped. n00b. sam showed me how to start it up properly and I think I'll probably get it next time (we'll see).

anyway sam let me taxi between the hangars, I took two rights and was passing other Cessnas and some jets in the GA lot and then stopped the plane at the edge of the parking lot before the taxiway. I asked Sam a question or two about how to work the radios. he showed me how to set the frequencies in COM1 and COM2, we listened to ATIS which was at Lima...calm winds beautiful day ceiling unlimited etc. Sam said ok here's what you're gonna go. Press the little button on the right side of the yoke and say who you're talking to , who you are, and what you want and then wait and repeat back verbatim what they tell you. Sam joked if they curse at you...you curse back.

For some reason more than taking off or landing...Sam saying ok contact westchester ground really got my palms a little sweaty....my stomach a little rumbly. OK. pressed the button. "Westchester Ground...Skyhawk November 2469 Foxtrot at Panorama...request taxi for northbound departure with Lima." "November 2469 Foxtrot taxi to runway 34 via golf and echo." Well I wasn't prepared for golf...and echo...so when I clicked in to respond all that came out was "November 2469 Foxtrot taxing to golf at echo." WHOOOPS. Sam stepped in real quick and fixed my error. I think I'll improve quickly with that haha but yeah a little embarrassing I was half expecting this transmission "November 2469 Foxtrot don't transmit on this frequency until you know what you're doing" "Roger...stay silent till I figure it out N2469F"

I asked Sam why on the taxiway just before the runway he turned the plane all the way to the left. He said it's because you want to point the plane into the wind as much as possible to keep the engine cool. Not because I could be a terrorist. Anyway, a minute later and we were in the air, climbing and heading north.

We got up to about 2500 feet and I was in control and feeling much more confident today than yesterday. I was freely using the trim wheel and keeping the plane flying level for nearly hands off flight. This plane drifted to the right so you sorta had to keep a little pressure on the left aileron to keep it straight. Sam at one point said he check this out. He reached under the seat, and moved his seat back about a foot. Instantly the plane started climbing like an American Idol winner's single up the charts and I quickly reset the trim to fly level again. It was surprising how much this change in CoG affects the flight of the plane but I guess not thattt surprised since the plane is only about 2500 pounds. Sam said even the beverage cart on some smaller planes causes the autopilot to have to change the trim frequently to remain level.

Sam had me execute a bunch of right turns and left turns to specific headings at different bank angles while staying level. I asked Sam how much I should be looking outside and how much I should be looking at the instruments. He said 90% outside 10% inside...i was almost the opposite but I switched quickly from looking at the VSI (which lags about 3-5 seconds) to figure out my vertical speed to looking at the distance between the nose and the horizon in level flight and keeping that distance while turning. Not that difficult. I also pretty quickly figured out that whole triangle thing to keep the plane flying straight instead of diagonal when in a crosswind. A little rudder pressure in the correct direction and the display lines up nicely. Also learned about how you need different amounts of backpressure depending on how steeply you bank. If you bank heavily, you need to pull back on the stick as you are dumping lift on the side that you are banking...(i think). I did one long turn and after about a minute in a long turn we hit a bit of turbulence. Sam said you know you just ran into your own wake turbulence...that sorta stuff makes a check airman blush because you did it perfectly!

Sam seemed impressed with how eager to learn I was and my progress since yesterday so he said "man you're gonna breeze through this." then we practiced slow flight which kinda doesnt stick out in my memory as much as what we did next...Sam said wanna practice some stalls? i said uhhhhhhhhhhh sure. Let's get up in the air and the purposely lose the lift going about 40 mph and then start falling which the plane is uncontrollable. LOVELY.

so we climbed to 5000 feet and put full flaps. Sam said ok now pull back on the stick until you stall. So i pulled back and the airspeed dumped off. A bunch of indicators popped up on the Garmin GPS screen on the airspeed Vx Vy Vz etc...and the attitude indicator in the middle of the display has a big red X on it as you pitch up 50 degrees i think. Anyway so I was pulling back on the stick and we hit 35 knots but still no stall horn. Sam kept urging me to keep pulling back and finally the stall horn kicked in and the plane shook, and fell with the nose kinda meandering left/right. Sam had already explained to me that in a stall your controls are sluggish and using the ailerons will put you into a spin. The trick is to use aggressive rudder inputs in the opposite direction as the nose goes.

So in the stall the plane shook, fell, and the nose yawed right so I jammed the left rudder and it sort of corrected itself...and quickly Sam told me to drop the nose add power and instantly you are flying again...just gotta make sure that after you add power you remember to push the stick forward because the nose wants to go straight up after adding power post stall. That was a takeoff stall. Then we practice a landing stall...I pretty much got over any fear I had...it's not that bad. I asked Sam what would happen if in the stall you press the rudder in the same direction as the nose. Sam said let's try it! LOVELY! Turns out it sorta starts the plane in a little spin instead of keeping the nose pointed in the direction you want but its not really hard to get out of.

At this point we'd been in the air a good while and it was time to head back. We were heading right down the Hudson about 5 miles north of the Tappan Zee Bridge and Sam said ok time to contact NY Approach. This time it wasn't as difficult to say the right thing...i mean we had just stalled a bunch of times in a single engine and seemed like i was going to live. "NY Approach Skyhawk 2469F over the Tappan Zee bridge inbound westchester" "2469F fly left traffic over the numbers contact westchester tower" I think that was the transmission although i might be mixing that up with the transmission from westchester tower. Left traffic over the numbers meant that we were supposed to fly over the airport with our runway (29) on our left.

We flew the downwind leg, the base leg, and then were lined up with the runway and cleared to land. We flew the approach about 75 knots I think and Sam let me know the right descent angle for a controlled descent. We had a slight crosswind and I used the appropriate rudder input to keep the nose pointed at the runway. The tendency for the plane to veer right was noticeable and a little annoying. Sam told me to always look at the end of the runway it gets big really really quickly. At maybe 200 feet we got a little turbulence which shook the plane and sent us a little right of the centerline. We touched down a little rougher than yesterday but still pretty acceptable. I was pretty thrilled to be back on the ground. I taxied back to the lot and I learned a little more about how to tie the plane down, use the tow bar, and write in the log the engine hours used etc.

All told this lesson cost about $300 bucks. Which tells me I better keep running well in PLO to finance this new hobby. It'll get expensive quick. Lots of fun though! Not flying next weekend because I'm going skiing in Maine. Hey W0X can you fit a set of golf clubs in single engine? This might be the kicker in whether I purchase a plane or not. haha.

sorry if this is sort of a thread hijacking. i feel like sharing my experience as a total beginner (2.3 hours) next to w0x's 15,000 hours is kinda cool and our perspectives being so different adds a bit of color to this already amazing thread.

Badass. The part about practicing stalls sounds terrifying!

Keep up the reports Tony, they are very interesting and well written. Your pics were great too.

that was great, I'd love to hear more of the learning to fly TRs

Absolutely.

forgot to ask about this earlier

does this mean you could, in theory, get almost all your experience in a simulator? What does it really mean to be "pilot in command" in a simulator, or to fly "cross country"?

This is an amazing thread. Strong work W0X0F. I finally made my way through all of it (after a few days), and now I'm tempted to learn how to fly too. So, I signed up to ask a few questions. Does anybody have any suggestions for flight training for private pilots closer to Manhattan than Westchester? Tony, how did you find out about the place at HPN and would you recommend them?

closer than Westchester would be Teterboro but with tolls and traffic i think it's a worse option.

I googled Westchester Airport Flight School. Yes, recommend.

I got a kick out of this part. I work at an airport whose primary traffic is students; it can be surprising how many ways one can screw up "Taxi to runway 26 left via Charlie-One, Delta"

I enjoyed the TR, Tony. Brought back some memories but I also learned some new interesting stuff from it.

Don't be afraid of the radios. Most controllers are very understanding and patient. Pilots and controllers have developed a short hand way of saying things to where it's practically a new language. It helps relieve frequency congestion. But they know it's difficult for new pilots to understand and (unless it's realllly busy) they won't mind switching back to plain English if that's what you need. Keep in mind that the controllers are there for you, not the other way around. You're not flying so that they can work. If you get one that gives you an attitude, that's a shortcoming on his part and he's doing a worse job of controlling than you are of flying. As W0X0F mentioned earlier, long clearances are much easier to understand when you know what to expect, and the only way to figure that out is a lot of experience. So you'll get it eventually, until then don't stress yourself out over it.

hey,

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60O08T20100125

what are your thoughts on this?

i mean how on earth is this possible

thanks

hey thanks D10 and others for the nice words.

liveatc has archives saved from every half hour so after my lesson I went back and listened and had me a good chuckle. I think I'll get it pretty quickly!

even think for a minute or two that aviators are nicer than poker players?...nah.