I don't think I've ever had a controller comment on a landing, but I wouldn't put it past the guys at JFK. They can be pretty amusing. I remember one time a plane snugged up uncomfortably close to the plane ahead of it on the taxiway and the Ground controller said "Hey American, no pushing!"

If a pilot bounces a plane on landing, the other pilot might say something like "Hey, you can log two landings on that one." But usually, pilots don't comment on another guy's bad landing. This is partly out of not wanting to pile on, because a bad landing is its own punishment and embarrassing to any of us, and partly because we all know that our next one might not be one we're proud of. In other words, we've all been there.

Passengers, on the other hand, seem delighted to comment on a bad landing. The comment I hear most often from passengers after a hard landing is "Former Navy pilot?"

I know I've told the story of my worst landing as a Delta pilot before, but I'll mention it again here. I was finishing my IOE as a new FO on the MD-88. Things had been going great on our 4-day trip. The IOE check airman, Rick Perez, had commented several times that I was doing great. Then came the last leg of the trip, ATL-LGA. It was my leg and I flew the Expressway Visual approach to runway 31 at LGA. It was night and the winds were strong and gusty. I was on speed and glidepath throughout the approach but there was a good deal of control movement in the rough air. The 88 doesn't have hydraulically actuated controls; it's all pushrods and cables...strictly mechanical linkages...that move control tabs on the ailerons and elevators. This produces an inertial lag in the response that results in a lot control movement during an approach like this.

Just coming over the fence, and preparing to flare for landing, the gusty winds resulted in a loss of headwind component and the plane began to sink to the surface. My inexperience in this plane resulted in me being late with power and control movement and the plane dropped in from probably 3 or 4 feet. It was...horrible. And humiliating. A controlled crash.

Once at the gate, our custom at Delta is for the flying pilot to stand and say goodby to passengers. Rick told me I didn't have to do that for this leg, but I said I'd take my medicine, so I got up to say goodby. This was three weeks after 9/11 and one woman getting off was nearly hysterical. "First the towers come down! And now this!" Passengers behind her were rolling their eyes at her histrionics. I could only apologize. Most passengers, especially frequent flyers, were pretty sympathetic to me.

Then one of our first class passengers was getting off. It was Dan Marino and I said to him as he approached me "Well, you can't win 'em all" and he replied "You don't have to tell me that!"

Even within one company, there are a number of variables. Delta continued to pay into the Northwest pension scheme for many years (maybe they still do even now), so ex-NW pilots have different pension benefits than guys like you who were mainline Delta for their entire career, even though both are Delta employees now.

Its really weird at American, where some pilots have absolutely no plan and others were frozen and taken over by the PBC at various different points as multiple companies went through bankruptcy.

Not at all. The feeling I have is just sadness, knowing I'll never be part of a crew on a large plane again. I really loved the job and the interactions with crew and passengers.

It used to be that retirement age was 60 and then in December 2007 Congress voted to raise it to 65*. Since then, there has been talk of raising it further to 67. My personal feeling is that there should be no age limit since we have flight physicals twice a year. That's the chance to determine a pilot's fitness to do the job. Some people should retire at 55; others could probably go to 75, though I fully understand the visceral reaction most people have to that.

I still feel young (at least until I walk by a mirror) and I think I could easily do this for another five years or, dare I say it, ten years. But, no, I don't feel resentment or anger over it. I also don't feel sorry for myself. It was disappointing to miss out on six months of flying the 757 and 767 as a Captain, and I didn't get that retirement flight, but COVID has hit a lot of people a lot harder than that. People are losing jobs. Families are losing their home. I'm lucky to have had the career I had.

[*When they raised the retirement age to 65, they also established restrictions for pilots over 60. This included more frequent line checks by a company check airman and also the rule that two pilots over 60 could not be paired together.]

You are correct sir. When the airlines began their "readjustment" of compensation following 9/11, the Northwest pilots displayed their usual anti-management resolve and said "Hell no" to dissolution of their pension. This carried over when Delta and Northwest merged.

American's story was a mess because they first acquired TWA and tacked those pilots onto their seniority list (rather than merging the lists), resulting in a lot of animosity. Then, American merged with USAir, which had previously merged with America West in a very ugly and contentious merger. (To my knowledge, the crews never did co-mingle.) I'm not sure how those issues were resolved, but I'm sure it didn't please everyone.

Saw a documentary about how ATC at Gander, Newfoundland handled the huge volume of traffic on September 11, 2001.

One of the problems they faced was the taxiway was really the other side of the landing runway for a little while, then diverged off. So after landing, a plane would have to 180, come back for a little bit, then get off the actual runway.

At one point, there was an aircraft on the runway as the next one was descending. The actor playing the pilot said to the FO, "We're too close," and in the same split second, ATC came on to tell #2 to go to 3000 feet. So, crisis avoided.

So, question is this: in an emergency situation, does air crew override ATC, or vice-versa?

My guess is it's always safety first, and the pilot in the above example would've pulled up regardless of ATC instructing (or not). Then everyone would've likely faced a review afterward.

My secondary guess is they made the docudrama look much worse than the actual issue; made it seem as if #2 buzzed the runway (inadvertently, of course).

It was kind of interesting to me. 9/11: Control the Skies on Nat Geo if anyone's interested.

As a grounded frequent flyer who watches/ reads more than my recommended dose of air disaster shows and docs-having a pilot close to retirement- is comforting, and I wanna hear it with the seatbelt chime

I'm guilt posting thinking abt my next flight, and covid layoffs leaving only senior pilots to take me over the ocean at 37k feet 550mph+ for 10hrs

Nice thread you got here all the best

Not sure how to ask this. What are the logistics of handling air traffic at airports that service multiple types of aircraft?

Near my house, there's a smaller airport. It does have capacity for big jets, occasionally one will go there. But mostly, it seems to be corporate jets and personal, prop-style aircraft.

I imagine these smaller planes don't have the sophisticated radar/collision avoidance/other safety systems that big planes have.

Is it a big difference for ATC and/or the pilots to keep traffic orderly at a place with such a mixed population of planes?

Thanks Nutella. I miss it a lot. Still flying the little ones...

You'd be surprised. That technology is now available even on single engine prop planes. A year ago this month I was in Florida and flew a friend from Ft. Myers to Melbourne, Florida, for his high school reunion. We rented a Cessna 206 (6-seater) and I was surprised to find out that it had TCAS incorporated into the large Garmin display.

Mixing planes of vastly differing speeds can be tricky but having an extra runway to use often solves the problem.

Apropos of nothing, I thought I'd start sharing some pics I've got. Here's one from a trip to the Dominican Republic from my time in the 737 (about two years ago).

We had just arrived and when the FO and I were walking into the terminal, a group of young students on a field trip to the airport were walking by. Their teacher said "Oh look boys and girls! It's the pilots! Say hi to the pilots."

They all said "HI PILOTS!" and I couldn't resist stopping and handing out plastic wings to all of them (I always carried plenty of those in my flight bag). Then I asked their teacher to get a picture of us with the kids. For whatever reason, the FO didn't want to be in the picture.

My office (767):

I thought about asking this question when the news broke, but how big of an issue was the Garmin hack with regards to flying smaller planes?

I'm not really plugged into the GA world (yet) and I hadn't heard of this...had to Google it to find out what you're referring to. From what I found, it looks like Garmin paid perhaps as much as $10M to hackers in ransom.

I guess pilots better keep their basic pilotage and dead reckoning skills intact.

Nice pictures. Great story from the DR. Looking forward to more.

I'm guessing W0X0F didn't do a lot of flying into smaller airports, but smaller regional carriers may fly into airports that are untowered. I've been on an Delta flight into Bemidji, MN (BJI) and once on the ground, was surprised to see there was no tower. On the way back home, while waiting in the airport, I was listening to a LiveATC stream where the GA aircraft and incoming regionals were all coordinating on CTAF.

I had no idea there are commercial fights to airports with no towers. Is there a certain size of plane above which it is required to operate at controlled airports, or does it just so happen that airports big enough to accommodate large planes are all controlled anyway?

I was assuming that the original question was about a tower-controlled field. At uncontrolled airports (i.e. no tower in operation), it's up to the pilots themselves to take care of separation. This is done by announcing position and intention on CTAF (Common Tower Advisory Frequency).

Example for State College PA:

"University Park Traffic, Delta 400 is 10 miles south for landing on runway 24."

"University Park Traffic, Delta 400 is entering downwind at 2500 feet for landing on runway 24."

"University Park Traffic, Delta 400 is turning base for landing on runway 24."

"University Park Traffic, Delta 400 is turning final for landing on runway 24."

And finally, "University Park Traffic, Delta 400 is clear of the runway."


State College is the only airport I can remember flying into that didn't have a control tower (that was back in my days at ACA). Several other fields had a control tower which didn't operate 24 hours a day. Arriving after the tower closed (usually 11 pm local time), we used the non-tower procedures, announcing our position throughout the approach. This is not fool-proof however, as you encounter the occasional GA numbskull who doesn't monitor or use the CTAF.

I've landed at uncontrolled fields in a 757 several times, always because we arrived late, after the tower had ceased operations for the day (they don't wait for us). Some of the airports that come to mind (though at my age I could be mis-remembering ): Wilmington NC (ILM), Pensacola, FL (PNS), Charlottesville, VA (CHO).

I just remembered another uncontrolled field (besides State College) that I used to fly into regularly at ACA: Lynchburg, VA (LYH). It was a maintenance base for our turboprops and we usually had three or four planes overnight there every night. After I left ACA, they started service to Shenandoah Valley, VA (SHD) airport, also uncontrolled.

This^. Thanks for the great thread from a long time lurker.

This and chopstick’s “sailing around the world thread” are two of my favorites in OTT.

More stories about the places you’ve been, with pics, not necessarily specific to the flights themselves would be very entertaining imo.

This is the last one for today (don't want anyone to OD on the pics I post), but I've got many more to share...

This is someone from TwoPlusTwo, who was on my flight to ATL (can't remember if we departed from LGA or JFK). Of course, I had to bring him into the cockpit before pushback. This is a 757. I won't identify him, in case he wants to remain anonymous. I'll leave it to his discretion. (Can't even remember if I made an acceptable landing. You only get one chance to make a first impression!)

Cool

W0X0F - this is just one guy's opinion, but i'll keep reading this thread as long as you keep posting. doesn't matter that the content isn't from current events...it's fun to see pics i've never seen before and read the stories behind them.

Me too. I can't quit you.

+1