Did they at least let you keep one of your uniforms and ID badge so you can continue to cruise airports for flight attendants?

Sorry for your loss, W0X0F.

Just wanted to say both sorry for your loss and congrats on a long and successful career (even if it’s ending earlier than you’d like). We obviously appreciate your contributions here but I’ve also admired your attitude in dealing with personal adversity and things you can’t control. Probably helps as a pilot.

Can you get a gig as a corporate pilot? Back when I worked at the GM HQ in the '80s, they had several corporate planes and their own hangar at DTW.

Condolences for your loss.

Sorry for your loss. Your dad sounds like one hell of a role model. Nice work making sure his obituary talked about what was important to him. I'm sure he would have been happy to read it and know it's how he's being remembered.

Sorry I didn't know it at the time, but also for the loss of your mom a few years ago.

Sorry for your loss.

Condolences on the loss of your father. A really nicely written memorial to him.

Thanks to everyone for the very kind posts here. I feel like I know many of you just from the familiarity of seeing your names on posts (in this thread and others). I’m happy to be a part of the TwoPlusTwo community.

In response to few of the comments...

I keep the uniform, but I have to turn in the badge. Haven’t done it yet; I'm expecting a package from the NY Chief Pilot (a framed picture of the 767, which was available in the crew room for the last month for other pilots to sign) and this will have a pre-paid return package for my badge and my company iPad.

I’d love a good corporate gig, but most of those are gotten through networking and I’m not hooked into that world. Also, the market will soon be flooded with pilots being furloughed so finding a job would be tough.

And another note about my father...

One of the things my dad really enjoyed was having me join him in the evening to watch Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy. He often said it was the “best hour of the day.” (Full disclosure: I sometimes missed WoF, but I was always there for Jeopardy.) When he got his diagnosis, pancreatic cancer, he actually smiled and said “I’ve got something in common with Alex Trebek.”

Are pilots you know moving on to new careers?

Seems as if air travel is going to be in an extended down period with not much work available.

Captain W0X0F:

I hate to see this wonderful (and very informative) thread coming to an end, but all good things eventually reach the end of the runway. Trying to draw an aviation metaphor ...

Wish it had not ended this way, but such is life. (Damn virus!)

Thanks for answering all our questions. You have certainly made us all feel a lot better (and less apprehensive) about boarding a plane and taking a flight.

If Delta management is really smart they'll commission you to write a monthly column to appear in each issue of their in-flight magazine. It won't be hard coming up with ideas and topics - just lift the more interesting posts from this thread!

I have a feeling you haven't taken your last flight. It may take a while, but once this "virus thing" is over with, things will gradually return back to normal. Before this virus hit, you were posting about the looming "pilot shortage" and how this was a good time for prospective pilots - and pilots in training - to get in the profession. Once business picks back up, who knows? You might very well land a corporate flying gig - and then you can restart this thread! (Do Fed-Ex, UPS and Amazon.com hire retired airline pilots?)

Whatever your future holds, we are all very grateful for your time (and patience) in answering our many questions.

Good luck!

My Grandfather passed away around 25 years ago when I was a teenager and watching Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy was part of our evening routine when I visited as well. I still often remember him if I'm flipping through channels after dinner and see the pairing. It's amazing the little things that matter.

Woah, woah, woah. I don't think the thread needs to end!

You’re right jj. I’ve still got a pulse and 43 years of flights logged. I’ll hang around and see if I can still contribute.

Only example I know is from a pilot who used to work for Virgin Australia. She was only in the job for a couple of years and was told it could take 6 years before she would fly again for an Australian airline. She is definitely looking for a career change.

Captain W0X0F

Longtime lurker first time poster. I restarted reading this thread from page 1 about 2 weeks ago and just got to the end.

Please accept my heartfelt condolences on your dads passing.

Belated congrats on retirement, sorry the pandemic threw a wrench into everything.

Though some of the posts were a bit technical for me, I found the re-reading of the past 366 pages fascinating as a non flyer in the travel industry. Thank you and the other posters here for the past years of posts.

You should write that book
Title could be Welcome Aboard-Sit back relax and enjoy the flight (groan)

Chapters
It’s not a mistake unless we both make it
Aviate, Navigate, Communicate.

I hope this thread continues. It's been a great read
Thanks!

Great first post, if I may humbly say so!

One thing I wish I could rectify in this thread is to re-post the associated pics and graphics that I originally included. I was hosting them on Imageshack when it was a free service and I didn’t sign up for their pay service, so many of the pics went away.

But to do that, the TwoPlusTwo powers-that-be would have to grant me edit authority for those old posts. They actually did that once years ago when I started to just correct typos I had made. It was like having a super power and I’m proud to say I used it for good and not evil.

I definitely agree about writing a book! There are enough topics and questions that have been raised (and answered) in this thread to provide more than enough material for a good read. (The biggest issue with writing a book will probably be deciding what to include - and what to leave out.)

Many of the topics and issues that have been addressed in this thread are questions (and concerns) that many people have about flying and air travel, so a good (well written) book could have wide appeal. It might not be a New York Times bestseller, but then again "Who knows?"

Maybe there's a literary agent in this thread (or somebody in here who knows a literary agent) who could help you navigate the ins-and-outs of the publishing business. (Captain Sully could be a good source for advice. They turned his book into a movie!) Some of the things you've related to us may not be quite as dramatic as the "Miracle on the Hudson," but they're no less interesting.

Suggestion: One of the chapters might be your wife and children relating what it's like (for them) having a husband/father who is a pilot. (Before you proposed, was your [future wife] worried or nervous about marrying a pilot? Does she always expect a call after you've safely landed at your destination?) Throughout the book you might name drop famous people who have flown on your flights. (How often did you get a call in the cockpit from the lead FA gushing and all excited because Jack Nicholson - or whoever - is sitting in First Class?) Throughout this thread you have emphasized how rigorous, diligent, and disciplined the industry is when it comes to safety. A chapter on this topic alone is likely to generate brisk book sales. This is something passengers actually think about when they consider flying. Emphasizing the seriousness with which safety is addressed - right from the company CEO on down to the most junior employees - is certainly of interest.

I can guarantee your book will sell [at least] one copy - Mine! Asking Mr. Ed Bastian, Delta's CEO, to write a brief promotional "blurb" on the dust jacket of your book would also help.

it has been years since I last came by this thread but I am in Quarantine and bored.

Just in time to thank you for this wonderful thread and wishing you a nice retirement!

Count me in for a copy if you decide to do it. Personally signed by the author of course!

I was flying once from New York to Germany. Real bad turbulence. Anyhow, at times it felt like the plane was falling, like in a free fall, the same sensation as on certain roller coasters. What is that? Like, do planes actually drop a few feet in crappy weather?
Thanks and good luck in retirement.

Have you ever had a rough one where the controller says... "Delta1465, check you down at 1506, 07 and 08".......lol

Also, sorry to hear about your Dad, and wish your transition to retirement was in better times.

This thread has been great.

The atmosphere is a fluid and a plane flying through it is subject to any disturbances in that fluid, much like a boat on water. And to continue that analogy, the size and speed of the vessel relates to the effect of the turbulence.

I once had a scary boat ride across the Potomac River in a 19’ Sea Ray in 2 foot swells. An aircraft carrier wouldn’t even notice that. I also remember taking one of my younger brothers for his first airplane ride shortly after I got my license. We went up in a Cessna 152 on a hot summer day. That heat creates thermal disturbances in the air, especially below the cumulus clouds. A Cessna 152 (two seat trainer) has a pretty light wing loading and you feel every little bump in it. My brother was not happy and I made a mental note then to never take someone up for their first plane ride on anything but a perfectly smooth day.

So to answer your specific question, yes the plane actually experiences minor abrupt altitude changes in turbulence. This can be a dramatic change when flying through areas of convective activity, associated with the creation of thunderstorm cells in the summer. The inside of a building cell contains strong up and downdrafts in close proximity, creating vertical windshears that can cause abrupt altitude changes of a few hundred feet. That’s why we will go way out of our way to circumnavigate these cells. Turbulence is categorized as light, moderate, severe, and extreme. I’ve been in extreme turbulence once in my life (November 11, 1994, IAD-ALB) and I spent the rest of my career making sure it never happened again.

You can also have these windshears in clear air, but it is rare for that to be as bad as in a developing cell. Clear air turbulence is usually associated with the jet stream, which is a core of high velocity air in the upper atmosphere. This core of air has a diameter usually less than 2000’, so a change in altitude can often result in a smoother flight. If an altitude change isn’t available (other traffic nearby), a change in course, or just flying a 5 mile offset from the course, might also do the trick.

If we’re stuck in turbulence, we slow to a “rough air penetration speed” which reduces the effect of the bumps, similar to slowing a small boat when in choppy water.

WOXOF in your initial post you mentioned salary and how pensions had been slashed and that was 11 years ago, do you mind giving us info on what your pension looks like now? Were you given many options on how to take it, lump sum, monthly, etc?

Salaries were slashed; pensions were eliminated. This was all part of the post-9/11 feeding frenzy that airlines engaged in. 9/11 afforded them a blank check to recalibrate compensation under the guise of force majeure.

Up until then, we had a pension plan that would pay a retired pilot a percentage of their yearly average earnings, based on the highest three years of their careers (the last three years in most cases). I can’t remember what the percentage was, but I think it was around 60%.

When they eliminated our pension, we were paid out a cash value at that time and I’m not sure how that number was arrived at. From that point on, it was up to each individual to save in a 401(k) for retirement, and there was some level of company matching. Also, we had some residual pension amount due to us from the PBGC (Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation). I just checked on mine and I’ll get $1,036 a month beginning this month. My brother, who started at Delta three years before me, is getting around $1,500/month. He had 21 years with Delta. I had just shy of 20 years, but I was out 39 months on furlough (2002-2005) and I was out two years due to cancer, so I had less than 15 years flying with them.

It should be noted that this is only Delta. Every company handled this differently.

That pension change really sucks.

I'd like to add my voice to the chorus of thanks for this long-standing thread. Sorry to read about your dad.

Do you have any feelings of resentment of being forced to retire at 65? I have a friend who is generally quite level-headed, but his anger and bitterness after being forced out at 65 was almost over the top.