A new 737 is over 50 million bucks. Airlines don't cough that up unless they have no choice.

How often do pilots **** up when flying but not tell flyers due to not wanting to incite potentially unnecessary fear in them?

I'm wondering if that extreme turbulence being felt sometimes is really a cover up for some big mistake a pilot made while flying.

You think the pilot just starts jerking the controls around?

maybe he's cold and shivering!

Once I got a ride in one of the smaller Goodyear blimps. 4 seater. Pilot, copilot, 2 passengers. As we were getting ready for takeoff the pilot goes "Let me show you what this baby can do!" Myself and the other passenger are like "what can it do besides float?" Captain smiles, gets us a couple hundred feet over the field, tilts it so we are laying on our backs, goes full throttle and shoots us up like a balloon shot off the end of your finger. What a blast!

That sounds fun!

One person's fun is another person's pit of misery. lol good story tho

It was incredible fun. As to not derail, I posted some pictures in my blog thread:
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...6&postcount=77

Some questions about speed:

Are air routes like interstates, that you can go faster between cities and slow down around them? My guess: yes (ish)

Given the same aircraft and same route, would the plane typically fly at the same speed each trip, or do conditions force it to slow down (like icy roads with a car)? My guess: no, too high

Given the same aircraft but different routes, would speeds differ (i.e., over ocean vs mountains vs plains)? My guess: no, ground doesn't affect flying, too high again.

Am I correct in thinking that ATC gives the pilot the elevation, speed and course to fly? How much discretion does the pilot have, emergency only? My guess: yes and some under extreme circumstance.

Thanks again for all the information you've given out over the years.

The hell am I supposed to? I merely asked how often a potentially fatal mistake is corrected quickly without passengers being aware of it.

These posts, along with others in the thread, might be answered in some videos on YouTube. In the last couple of months, Mentour Pilot has answered questions about turbulence, loss of control, and speed limits of aircraft.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwp...dexB3ow/videos

Only if your flight begins or ends at that city, not if you’re just overflying the city. There are two kinds of air routes, low and high. The low routes, called Victor airways, exist below FL180. Above 180, you are in Positive Contol airspace (aka Class A) and you fly Jet routes. So, for example, flying into JFK this morning from Jamaica, the last portion of our route was on J-121. Needless to say, we use mostly jet routes. Jet routes often cross directly over major airports and there is no speed reduction when crossing at high altitude. (Not to complicate the discussion, but with the advent of GPS we also have a new route type, the Q route, which is not based on any ground Navaids the way Victor and Jet routes are. It’s really transparent from a pilot’s viewpoint.)

The only real slow down occurs on departures and arrivals, but this is when we are low, in the airport environment.

Turbulence can and does cause us to slow down. Just like riding a car on a bumpy road, the bumps aren’t as jarring if you slow down. We use a speed of 280 kts or .76 Mach (whichever is lower) for a decent ride in rough air.

Our dispatcher will also plan on different cruise speeds as a function of the winds we expect to encounter. For example, if we’re flying LAX to JFK and expecting tailwinds of 120 kts one day and only 40 kts the next day (yes, they can differ wildly day to day, depending on jet stream activity and location), we might file for .76M the first day and .80M the next day in an effort to maintain integrity of the schedule. We can save fuel going slower with the strong tailwind and also avoid arriving so early that we sit waiting a half hour for a gate to park at.

You’re right that the ground doesn’t affect flying, but there are two examples I can think of where it would matter. The first is flying over high mountains, such as the Rockies. Even at cruise altitude we often experience a phenomenon known as Mountain Wave, which can cause turbulence and significant up and downdrafts. We often slow down when mountain waves are strong. The other case is when below 10,000 ft. The speed limit below 10,000’ is 250 kts but this doesn’t apply when over the ocean (or Gulf of Mexico) and more than 12 miles from land. Thus, flying into JFK from the islands, we are below 10’000’ while still well off the Jersey coast and the shore of Long Island. In this case, we can stay fast until reaching that 12 mile point.

They never use the term elevation (unless warning us of impending impact with the ground ). It’s altitude, but I’m sure you knew that. We, or I should say our dispatcher, file a flight plan which includes our requested route and altitude, along with our planned true airspeed. The clearance we receive prior to take off will usually be just what we file, but there are sometimes route and altitude changes due to traffic flow and congestion.

Often, the changes come after we’re airborne due to the changing tactical situation. Departing LAX, we might find ourself flying the exact same route to JFK behind a JetBlue flight. If he’s at the altitude we want and we don’t have enough separation, ATC might have to keep us lower. Another option is to slow us down to create the needed separation prior to clearing us to our requested altitude.

Speed changes are common once we start approaching the destination airport. As arrivals are being funneled in over common approach fixes, traffic flow is managed with speed assignments by ATC and also use of vectors off the planned route to create separation. These speed reductions can occur hundreds of miles from the destination airport. Going to Atlanta out of New York, I’ve gotten significant speed reductions while still talking to New York Center, 500 miles north of Atlanta. Just a few weeks ago, flying into LAX, they were in a very rare east operation and slowed us down to 220 kts in the vicinity of Palm Springs (where we would normally be flying about 100 kts faster). As we got closer, they slowed us back to 180, which felt glacial. I wanted to ask the controller if he’d like us to hover, but I wisely thought better of it. (You can’t teach that kind of judgment. )

Oh, and you’re right about the emergency authority. If we declare an emergency, we can do anything we deem necessary for the safety of the flight. But we’re going to have to justify it later.

Hey, thank you for some good questions! I like that you included your guess at the answers.


I was in Jamaica last night. Flew into JFK about 11:30 this morning and the sea off the Jersey shore looked angry. Winds gusting up to 40 mph when we landed. I’m in Columbus, OH now, heading to San Juan early tomorrow. Time for bed. They like me to be awake on these flights.

Do you ever get reported wind conditions on the ground that make you sweat a bit on approach, or have you gotten to the point that even in very gusty crosswinds you are completely relaxed?

Is JetBlue notoriously slow or something?

I was flying into LAX out of YVR during the east operation around that time. I'll wave next time.

There is definitely a heightened awareness when faced with strong, gusty winds. But at this point in my flying career, I don't get nervous (or sweaty) in these situations. In fact, part of me kind of relishes the challenge. Same with flying an ILS to minimums. There's a certain satisfaction in doing that.

No, and I didn't mean to imply that. The problem I was alluding to is having someone at the attitude you want and being unable to get that altitude due to lack of separation. If we're going the same speed on the same route, we'll never achieve the desired separation so we either have to slow down or take a delaying vector to get that separation if we're determined to climb. Usually, we just settle for a different altitude.

How will I know it's you? 😏


I think that's the only time I've every seen them in an East operation. It easily added 25-30 minutes to our flight time.

Do different airlines pay for different/less turbulent routes/altitudes between cities?

I wish you could see my perplexed look as I read your question.

Simple answer: no.

It's one of the two closest airports to me (BUR far closer), so I've experienced it a few times.

Certain airlines will actually map out carrier-specific routes near the airport that only they can use. For example in St John's, Canada WestJet has an RNAV Y (yankee) approach that only they can use:



The cost was on them to make sure it was safe and followed all the appropriate regulations (TERPS'ed it), and they use it because it saves them gas and time over doing the normal RNAV approach:



Disclaimer: the approaches were all recently redone so these plates might not be 100% accurate right now

I remember a similar situation in Philadelphia years ago for an airline that flew the Dash-7, a four-engine turboprop that had great short field capability. iirc, the approach had a 7° glide path. I think it was Henson airlines, but I’m not sure of that. In any case, the approach was not available to other airlines.

Do you think you will ever see the day airplanes fly with computers and satellite GPS so that a pilot is not needed?

No. I think I’ll be flying west well before that happens.