Ahh, the venerable Link GAT trainer! I flew one at Manassas airport when I was first taking lessons in 1977 and also used one in our ATC lab when I worked as a programmer for The MITRE Corporation. I think it's named for Singer-Link and GAT stands for General Aviation Trainer. (I could be wrong.)

Although being able to fly by instruments is a great skill to develop, in primary training we want the student to get the feel for what the nose of the airplane looks like in relation to the horizon for various phases of flight. If you start off by flying solely with reference to the instruments, chances are you will never develop a smooth technique and, although you will get from point A to point B, you will have a lot of wallowing en route. By that I mean that your heading will tend to bracket your desired heading and not stay fixed. Same with your altitude; you will tend to wander +/- 50 or 100 feet throughout the flight.

In primary training, you should be able to make a 90 degree turn (heading change, not bank angle) by simply looking to your left, picking a point on the horizon and turning the plane until the nose lines up on that point. These are important skills to master and ultimately makes you smoother on instruments too.

That's a good point, and it's why we introduce instrument flying in the private pilot training (but toward the end, before the checkride). In case a pilot finds himself in IMC (Instrument Meteorological Conditions), it's good to be able to keep the plane straight and level.

We demonstrate how the inner ear can be fooled and then stress reliance on the instruments if you start to experience vertigo. It doesn't just have to be the inner ear that's fooled either; visual references, particularly in hazy conditions, can fool the brain.

I remember once as a private pilot (before the instrument rating), I was flying to Ocean City MD in my Piper Cherokee. Visibility was marginal VFR, probably only about 3-5 miles. Out over the Chesapeake Bay the water and sky blended together in a milky white and I realized that I had no visual reference. I locked on the instruments as I had been trained and counted the minutes until the opposite shore loomed in to view. During this time I got a distinct visual sensation of a large aircraft bearing down on me from my 11 o'clock position. I finally realized that it was a large tanker-sized ship on the bay, but with no horizon it really startled me.

Far be it from me to question a controller, but I cite Federal Aviation Regulation 91.117 (emphasis mine):
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§ 91.117 Aircraft speed.

(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).
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In 32 years of flying I have never once had a controller authorize a speed greater than 250 kts below 10,000, and I would question his authority to do so if he did issue such a clearance.

I think I may see the problem here. Were you a Canadian controller? (the CF-18 is the Canadian version of the F-18) In the U.S., the 250 kt speed limit is inflexible. The exceptions would be Houston airport as I mentioned in another post and also Miltary Operations Areas (MOAs) in which they can go the speed of heat.

Yeah, I worked in Canada and was working within the Edmonton area control center most recently with my specific airspace being Edmonton terminal. I would guess that most terminals throughout the US operate strictly on STARs and SIDs while the Edmonton terminal environment was far more flexible with regards to control.

I'd have to go through my old manual of operations to double check for exact wordings on speed restrictions below 10000' but I can assure you that almost every controller within my specialty utilized speeds of 250 kts+ below 10000' when it made sequencing work better. My time spent in the Toronto ACC was far more rigid in it's application of speed restrictions though so it may have just been an anomaly for the Edmonton terminal.(which was very unstructured as terminal environments go)

You confused me for a minute there. Taxiing is done only on the ground. I think you mean you were holding. Airborne holding is done because the next controller can't accept any more traffic. It could be a result of an emergency in progress, or a runway change (perhaps due to winds changing) at the destination, FOD on the runway (FOD=Foreigh Object Damage or Debris; used interchangeably), or because there was weather in the way or over the field. (this is not an exhaustive list, obviously)

An airborne holding pattern can often be a racetrack pattern with 10 nm legs. On some occasions, the controller will approve even longer legs so that the pilots can avoid an excessive number of turns -- not that it's any harder, but that way it's less apparent to the passengers and perhaps won't produce so much anxiety.

I'm confused how you know it was the thrust reversers that didn't work, if the flight crew didn't say anything. Also, the holding had nothing to do with reducing airspeed.

Loss of thrust reversers is not an emergency situation. All of the performance data we use for landing (i.e. how much runway is needed to stop) is based on no use of thrust reverse. If you have them, they're just icing on the cake.

Thrust reversers can fail, but it would never require emergency equipment. If that equipment was there for you, there had to more to the story. It might be that the flaps had failed and they had to make a zero flap landing...now that is something I would have them roll the trucks for. A zero flap landing will be at a much higher airspeed and that means longer landing roll and a good chance of hot brakes.

Is it possible the equipment wasn't there for you, but for someone else? That could explain your airborne holding. If it was for you then the Captain was remiss, IMO, in not at least letting you know to expect to see it upon landing. I would always make a PA about this, so that no one got unnecessarily excited about it (and perhaps pop an emergency exit).

Quite right.

The other possibility is that the hold had nothing to do with them, but your
guesses are certainly possible, except for allowing time for an abnormal landing. The response time of Fire & Rescue at an airport is measured in minutes. They wouldn't need any lead time to get ready.

They are not at all unusual. I haven't personally had one for over two and half years, but I've done my share. What it comes down to is that the pilot doesn't land if it's not safe for any reason.

Cell phones? I hope never. It's bad enough having to listen to people's inane conversations everywhere right now, at least an airplane is a bastion of relative serenity.

Internet will be probably be universally available within the next 5 years.

I've never had this pointed out, but you are absolutely right -- it's a bad demonstration and if you are ever faced with inflating a vest by mouth, you'll quickly find out that it's like blowing up a beach float (probably a little easier).

Thanks. I assume from your avatar that you're up there at Rennselear? Great engineering school. I worked with some RPI grads at Mitre years ago.

Is this because of some agreement between all airlines in the world or just a from one pilot to another thing? How do you arrange this - you call up the airline? Just show up at the airport and hang out in the pilot's lounge? If a dude shows up with an ID from some random local African airline you've never heard of, do you let him on the plane?

(sorry noticed that a similar question has already been asked - so yeah what that dude said)

Do you have any desire to fly in gliders, ultralights or hot air balloons?
On a related note, when you fly in a small plane like a Cessna is it difficult for you to not be pilot in command?

Great idea. Why not try it. You can tell us all about it in 10-15 years when you get out...

Thank you for this information - very interesting. I'm basing my questions off experience with MS Flight Simulator/VATSIM, so it might just be lolworthy non-real world stuff. Consider this hypothetical:

You are cruising at FL350, and it's getting toward the time to start descent. You are cruising at some speed obviously greater than 250KIAS. I'd assume you'd generally get cleared for lower, so let's say that you're cleared down to FL180. Do you just go idle thrust and set your AP for FL180 at a standard rate of descent? Would you base your rate of descent at a certain rate that wouldn't accelerate the plane beyond your current cruise speed?

Now you're at FL180 still at cruise speed (would you have slowed down already? Still stay as fast as you can?), and get cleared down to 8,000. You're going to need to hit 10k at 250KIAS, so I assume that means you need to descend while slowing down. Does this just mean that you'd set your rate of descent to such a rate that would allow for you to slow however much you need to in the 8,000 feet of descent that you have before hitting 10,000?

I'd always end up being too fast in the sim world, so the timing of when to slow/how to slow while descending intrigues me.

Side question: How long did it take in your training to get used to steering with your feet while on the ground? I always found my brain compelled me to use my hands in the few landings I did in the C172, and I'd touch down and start drifting to the side and generally sucked at it, lol. I assume that you need a deft touch to not oversteer especially at higher speeds right after touchdown.

Did I mention this thread is a classic?

Anybody who didn't read this should check it out, it's absolutely amazing.

How hard is it to learn to fly a plane compared to driving a car for example?

This one might be a little random, but i was wondering so what the heck. Do you ever have happy costumers? I don't think I've ever gotten off a plane and thought to myself: "What a pleasurable experience". It's always either a bad experience or I feel indifferent about it. Besides the obvious fact that flying a plane must be pretty damn awesome, it's almost comparable to a walmart employee or something like that. Everyone needs to go there once in a while, but few people really enjoy it, and I guess that effects how people behave when flying as a passenger or shopping in a walmart. Maybe this question is more applicable to FA's.

I think that maybe someone asked this question earlier, but when a plane is crossing the Atlantic Ocean for example, noone(besides the pilots obviously) knows exactly where the plane is? If that is right, it kind of amazes me that a plane can just disappear without anyone knowing what or where it happened. I guess that wasn't really a question

A couple of months ago I flew from Europe to South America in a pretty big plane, maybe a 747. I sat in the absolute back of the plane and the entire flight was a bit bumpy. Nothing really crazy, just continously random bumps along the way. Noone said anything about turbulence so I just figured that maybe the plane "shakes" a bit while flying, and that the tail end of the plane is more shaky than the rest of the plane. Is that the case, or was it just turbulence that noone cared to mention to the passengers?

And finally I just want to say thank you for doing this thread. I really dislike flying(sitting in a metal box 30k feet above the ground just seems wrong to me, especially because I can't do a thing if something goes awry) but it helps reading about how everything works, and you've done a very good job explaining things.

If karma really works I'm sure you're going to destroy everyone you play in Vegas!

Have read every page a must say this has been a great thread,

however,

do you somtimes feel that you are just a glorified bus driver?

Thanks for the time and effort that you’ve put into this magnificent thread.

Couple of questions that I’ve had in mind for some time…

Why do they bother putting windows in passenger aircraft cabins? I would have thought that the aircraft could be made stronger, cheaper and lighter without them.

I always assumed that it was because some passengers might become nauseous during aircraft manoeuvres, but I would have thought that the use of seatback video screens + external cameras could largely ameliorate this in modern aircraft. Also I don’t see the aisles filled with puking passengers when the plane is banking at night with the window shutters closed.

In a similar vein, I’ve never understood why the seats face forward – it would seem to me in the event of a crash that survivability would be improved with backward-facing seats.

Finally, I did a short hop (45mins) to Amsterdam on an RJ100 which had a pinhole in the door seal. The effect was something like having a referee’s whistle blowing for the entire flight. Was the pilot correct in undertaking an over water flight with this problem in your opinion?

Thanks again.

I have never heard this, but if it was my call they certainly would. I've never met a Medal of Honor recipient (I think they might cringe at the word "winner"), but I do know a Vietnam POW personally. His name is Ken Coskey and he flew the A-6. I knew him through my father; they had been squadron mates on the U.S.S. Independence when they both flew the A-3.

Later on, I shared ownership of a Piper Turbo Arrow with Ken. Great guy, and he carries a card that gives him and a guest free admission to any Major League Baseball game (probably regular season only, I'm not sure). That was a gesture by the Commissioner of Baseball at the time.

Ken Coskey getting ready to go "downtown" in the A-6


I've never seen a guppy takeoff, but I've seen it on the ramp. Looks pregnant. As for turning off the wrong way, he didn't get in any trouble at all but he suffered the embarrassment, which was probably worse. Could happen to anyone at an unfamiliar field, but that's why we carry airport diagrams and why we discuss the direction of the turnoff as part of our approach briefing prior to landing.

It could have also been expensive if he turned in to a place with insufficient room to turn around. Then they would have to get a tug over to him to push him back.

I believe you and there have been many times I've been dying to speed it up on the approach

If you've seen the movie "Catch Me If You Can", based on the book which was a true story, then you saw Leonardo DiCaprio do exactly what you're describing. Yes, it was possible prior to 9/11 and more than once we had an alert at ACA to be on the lookout for known frauds.

But after 9/11, the FAA actually suspended jump seat riding by off-airline users (IOW, I couldn't jumpseat on United, only on my own airline) for over a year. We finally got the universal jumpseat back, but now we use a system called CASS (which I think stands for Cockpit Access Security System) which requires us to present out passport. The passport is checked against CASS, which has the actual passport picture and information in it, so the gate agent can actually verify that it's the same as the physical passport.

I remember a guy trying to get on my jumpseat when I was a Captain at ACA in the late 90s. We were at JFK and the wanna-be jumpseater came to the cockpit to present himself (normal protocol). He was dressed like a bum (blue jeans and t-shirt hanging out) which was unusual in itself; there's a certain decorum required when exercising jumpseat privileges. Then he gave me his World Airlines ID (a cargo carrier). I looked at the ID, then at him, and said,"You're a pilot?" He said, "Yes". Then I noticed at the bottom of the ID (not a fake, btw) that it plainly said in 1/3" block letters: "MECHANIC". So I said, "You're a pilot with World?" Now he demurred and said, "Well, no, I fly Cessnas." Jumpseat denied.

Very interesting hypothetical. The chance of someone learning to fly by himself would probably not be survivable. Assuming success at learning to fly (one-in-a-million), to then also get in a plane capable of a flight to Hawaii (this would be a jet and a complex plane compared to what someone is trained in) would almost surely be catastrophic. Assuming success here, the chance of finding Hawaii after a flight of >2000 miles would be extremely low.

So...I hate to say zero chance so let's express the probability as a mathematician would and say his chances are X as X->0.

This thread keeps delivering. Great job W0X0F. I'm curious about the about the various medical clearances you need to get. What's required for the different levels? What sorts of things can cause you to fail an exam? If you get grounded for medical reasons, is there any recourse, i.e. can you appeal or get a second opinion? If it's a permanent condition and you're done flying forever, do you get disability or an early pension or are you just SOL?

Actually, I overstated it a bit. Airlines have reciprocal agreements concerning use of the jumpseat and most of the airlines you or I have heard of participate. But there could be a random, small airline not on the list. The real check on this is at the gate when they use the CASS (Cockpit Access Security System) to check the guy's passport. If they're in CASS, they're a valid jumpseater.

Most airlines you can just show up. FedEx actually takes reservations and has a phone number for us. (They have some seats on their planes, forward of the cargo.) But if you make a reservation with them and then don't show up, you're blackballed for 6 months.

Coming out here to Vegas yesterday, I didn't call anyone. I just showed up at Dulles and went to the gate, presented my ID and passport, and they issued me a jumpseat pass. They ended up putting me in the cabin (which is common if there's space in back) and a good seat (bulkhead by an emergency exit on the 757).

Yes, yes and yes. Anything aviation related appeals to me.

I've actually flown gliders when living in Hawaii. I took lessons there but never got the rating. My training got interrupted when my company sent me to Japan for 3 months and I never resumed it, which I regret.

I very nearly bought an ultralight back when the craze was just starting (early or mid-80s). I went to Culpeper airport ready to sign a $5000 check and purchase a QuickSilver MX, but the sales guy stood me up and I later cooled off.

As for hot air balloons, I would love a ride in one, but no interest in a balloon rating.

Not at all (unless I don't have confidence in the other pilot). It's nice sometimes to just be able to sit in the other seat and marvel at how everyone on the ground looks like ants.

Yeah, there was a time when you'd probably only get a slap on the wrist. But today it's a serious felony and they'd probably make an example of you for publicity purposes.