The airplane is in a near level flight attitude and the nose is on the inside of the spin while the tail is describing a circle (with the nose in the center) as the airplane spins.

Trim is the term given to dealing with the control forces required with the elevator, ailerons, and rudder, and making them manageable.

If I am in level flight and the plane is trimmed well, I can fly using fingertip pressure only (no autopilot in this discussion) and if it's 'perfectly' trimmed I can fly hands off. This is quite possible and often a point of pride with a pilot to be able to trim the plane for hands-off flying.

Now let's say I decide to climb the airplane. I apply power and pull back to raise the nose to a climb attitude. The airplane begins to climb and I have to maintain the back pressure on the wheel. Maybe it's 5 lbs of pressure. For a climb of 1000' I hold this back pressure and then relax it after the 1000' and everything is back to normal. But what if I wanted to climb 8'000 and the plane is only climbing at 500' per minute. That means I have to hold that back pressure for 16 minutes. At this point I can trim the plane for the new pitch attitude, effectively zeroing out the back pressure required. Of course, I'll have to re-trim when I level off.

Here's how it works mechanically. The elevator is at the back end of the horizontal stabilizer. When I pull back to climb, the elevator moves up into the slipstream which causes the tail to be forced down. The plane pivots about the C.G. (center of gravity) and the nose goes up. The new wing angle results in the climb.

On the back of the elevator is another, smaller, control surface called the trim tab. When I trim the plane for the climb (by moving a trim wheel in the cockpit), I turn the trim tab down into the slipstream, thus applying aerodynamic forces keeping the elevator up (as we want it for the climb) and relieving me of having to maintain the back pressure. Why does it work? The trim tab has mechanical advantage over the elevator because it has a longer moment arm. It's a beautiful thing.




Having a plane out of trim can really get tiring after a while.

Same discussion applies to other control surfaces, but it's the elevator trim which is the main focus.

Probably more than you wanted to know. I get carried away.

I know many of the concepts and my wife gave me a helicopter lesson for my birthday about 5 years ago (one of the best presents I've ever gotten).

There's a good chance I'd kill us both, but I'd love to try. Seriously though, what would probably happen is that I could get us started but I would then start over-controlling (due to inexperience and lack of feel) and find myself getting in a PIO (Pilot Induced Oscillation) with one or more of the controls and before you know it, we're in a tangled mess on the ground. The good news is that this would probably happen very soon and the fall might only be a few feet.

This is similar to what I think would happen to a really good general aviation pilot if you put him in a large jet (with no autopilot). He could get the plane airborne, but once things start getting out of straight and level, they can depart controlled flight in a real hurry.

Why would tread be taken off on acceleration? It's not like they are skidding or pushing off, they are just rolling. Now slowing down with brakes I can imagine, but takeoff should be very minimal damage as long as they are rolling along.

Great thread. Read page 1,2 and 4 but my eyes are unfortunately starting bleeding so I'll ask this quick.

I'm flying from London to Auckland with a BOEING 747 400 and the flight time is 26:20 hours. How many pilots are onboard? Also, is it a "good" plane?

I think he's talking about the wheels themselves accelerating from static when touchdown occurs.

I've read 99% of the thread, but forgive me if this has been asked:


If you're flying passenger and you're not in first class, what are your thoughts on the guy in front of you reclining his seat back?

There's no way that's a straight shot. It's gotta stop somewhere.

That's what I said!
The travel agent said they didnt. It seemed weird but all the other flights had stops in LA, Hong Kong etc. This one just says London - Auckland 26 hours

Here is a complete reconstruction of the Hudson River crash, its pretty cool.

http://www.exosphere3d.com/pubwww/pa...son_river.html

Anything that stands out to you? Anything you think you'd do differently?

Again, awesome thread. Thanks

nice links. very helpful. i don't know how many of the videos linked to those you watched, but there were some good ones in there.

Still loving this thread. Few more.

-How do you become a test pilot? I figure there almost ex Navy guys. Do they get paid well?

-If your flying trans-atlantic, both engines go out, how far can a large plane glide, lets say a 747? and is this something you have to practice ever?

It takes 24 hours to go THROUGH LAX to get to Auckland from London. There's no way this is a straight shot.

What airline is it? If you don't mind giving a flight number, I'd like to see this for myself.

WTF Travel Agent? Did your Telegraph Operator assist you with this flight too?

The range of a 747 400 ERS is 9200 km, and the distance to Auckland is around 11400 km. If it's a direct flight, you are going to end up in the ocean.

Cockpit view

I'd also like to know the answer. Also, W0X0F did you ever land at Kai Tak in Hong Kong?

Great thread, thanks.

If the airplane had begun rotation for takeoff, there is absolutely no event that would justify this pilot's action. He was lucky he had enough runway left to stop.

We have some very important speeds we use on a takeoff and they vary depending on aircraft weight, temperature, winds and runway length and conditions (dry, slippery, snow covered) at the time of takeoff:

V1 - This is sometimes referred to as "Go/No Go" speed. It's the speed, past which, the aircraft is committed to flying, no matter what.

VR - This is rotation speed, i.e. the speed at which the nose should be rotated up for takeoff (for heavy airplanes, the plane may not actually 'unstick' or takeoff for several more knots). In an RJ like the one you were on, V1 and VR may be identical.

In the 767, we will abort the takeoff role for almost any warning annunciation prior to 80 kts. After this speed, recognizing the inherent dangers in high speed aborts, we will only discontinue the takeoff role for very serious problems: engine fire, engine failure, windshear, or something that brings in to question the airplane's ability to fly. We will not abort for a "door open" indication, for example, or for a generator failure, or any of a dozen other less critical items.

When the non-flying pilot calls out "Vee One", we are not stopping even if an engine fails. We have flying speed and we know the plane will do fine on one engine, so we will get airborne and then deal with the problem. We don't know if the airplane can actually stop on the remaining runway if we elect to stop after V1...hence the decision to fly and the reason we calculate V1 for each takeoff.

If this pilot had begun the takeoff rotation, he was obviously past V1 and should have gone flying.

Not a dumb question at all. Yeah, all things being equal, avoid ORD in the winter. It's true that major problems at ORD (or JFK or ATL) will have far-reaching effects on the whole U.S. airspace system, but you're talking about your particular itinerary and if it's just as convenient to travel via a southern route in the winter, why not?

No it's not super tough, although there are some pilots who would like to perpetuate that image. It's a skill set and you can learn it.

My first step was to sign up for Private Pilot Ground School. I took it at a local high school through the County's continuing education services, but if you stop by most small airports they will have classes posted. You can also do it through self-study (I did this for most of my follow-on ratings) but I would recommend the class for a beginner; you'll learn more.

If you've got the bucks, enroll in a flight school like Embry-Riddle. As with military training, this is somewhat of a known quantity to airlines and you will have an excellent chance of getting hired (by a regional at first).

There's no getting around that it's going to take money and time to achieve your goal, but you have to take the first step.

I trained in Pipers, which have control wheels (also called a yoke). In the early days of aviation, all planes had sticks. At some point when larger passenger carrying aircraft came along, they transitioned to control wheels and it stayed that way for the airlines until Airbus innovated with a sidestick (not between the legs as it was in the early days).

Boeing was going to use a sidestick in the 777 but pilots at United, which was the launch customer, wanted their traditional control wheel, so that's what Boeing went with.

I've only flown a handful of planes with a stick. My favorite was the CAP-10, an aerobatic plane built in France. It had an inverted fuel and oil system, so you could fly it upside down, which was really a lot of fun.

The stick is much more of a natural feel IMO. If I ever had a light airplane for sport flying, I would definitely want a stick.

No experience with seaplanes or float planes, so I really couldn't say. I always wanted to try it.

I know a guy who has some experience. He's someone I met years ago when I worked as a mathematician for the Consumer Product Safety Commission (1st job out of school). He flew PBYs during WWII. The PBY Catalina was a U.S. Navy floatplane. Anyway, I fly with this guy from time to time. He's in his 80s now and will only fly with me, even though he owns his own plane and has his own 900' grass strip up near Frederick MD.

I haven't flown with him for over 6 months and I really should give him a call anyway, so I'll ask him about this kind of flying.

What would happen to the plane if you tried it, would things just start breaking and falling off?

what do you think of this kind of stuff?


delta engine failure

link 2

Wow, you 2p2 guys never disappoint! Good question...thanks for asking.

I was going to cover this in my original answer, but sometimes I feel like I get a little too verbose in my answers so I try to keep it short and not suffer the dreaded "tl;dr".

Pittsburgh has 3 parallels: 28L, 28C and 28R (and, of course, the opposite direction 10R, 10C and 10L). Any guesses what the "C" stands for?

In Atlanta, they used to have 4 parallel runways: 27L, 27R, 26L, 26R. By magnetic headings, all should have used 27, but they just kicked one pair down a notch for naming purposes.

In the last few years, Atlanta added a 5th parallel runway with the same magnetic orientation. Thus one they kicked up a notch and it is 28/10.

I did this a number of times as a passenger before the new airport opened, once during a typhoon, (very turbulent, pretty much no one ate in flight, clapping upon landing.) The nearest I can come is maybe Typhoon Lynn in 1987. Last flight out from Taipei to Hong Kong before they closed the airport.

It was interesting to look into people's apartments at night as you approached the runway.

You could also count on at least one flight hitting the water annually, usually not one of the top carriers though.

I've only seen magenta a handful of times and not all radars display returns in the same way. On the turboprop I flew, they weren't even in color. Everything was green with different cross-hatching to indicate intensity.

Yeah, a hurricane might show magenta, but some t-storms can grow tops to as high as 60,000 in some cases (not uncommon over Texas and Oklahoma, though rare in the east) and these mature storms will have that kind of severity. Good spawning ground for tornados.

Awesome thread.

Would you mind commenting on this landing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtnL4...658F5062B03CE1

and crosswind landings in general.

Sweet thread. I got to fly in Cessnas a bit when I was a kid and have wanted to get my pilot certificate ever since. When I was a kid I didn't realize it costs money to fly, so it's still a dream at this point haha. I am planning to pull the trigger in the next year or two. Do you think there is any value in starting with gliders? I have heard it is good for developing flying skills.