Definition of an Airbus: A computer controlled tree trimmer.


What I say when making an airline reservation: "If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!"



Love this thread - I'm a private, single engine land. Love flying, it's cool you get to do it for a living.


QUESTION: Have you ever done a Cat IIIc autoland and if so what was the worst visibility you had doing one?

Related: I think the most chilling alarm I've heard in CVRs is the ground proximity ("Pull Up!" bweep bweep "Pull Up!"). Have you ever had occasion to hear this (other than during a checklist/test)? I wonder because while it is often the last thing heard before the CVR cuts off in an accident, I've never heard/seen it in a transcript of an incident where it "did any good" (i.e. the pilots heard it and were able to make a correction).

Further related: Do you have any "I learned about flying from THAT" stories you'd like to share? (and I hope it's okay to ask!)



Cheers!

AB

I think the whole cellphone thing is overblown, but I'm glad they have to be off during a flight. Can you imagine the inane conversations you'd have to listen to as you fly across the country?

Can the rf transmissions from a cellphone interfere with on-board radios (comm and nav)? I don't know. That's the risk they're purportedly trying to avoid.

Isn't that why you have closed doors behind you?

I don't have an automated alarm but I've been in a few situations where another crew member yelling "Pull up" probably made a difference. Fortunately you won't hear a recording or read a transcript of those incidents because nothing came of them. I'd bet that's fairly common.

That's the theory, as I understand it. The same rationale is used as a justification for private citizens having concealed weapon permits, i.e. bad guys will think twice before trying to victimize someone who can shoot back. But that's another discussion...

The compromise approach usually brings undesired consequences. In the recent case of the AD in the cockpit, apparently the round didn't hit anything terribly important, such as the other pilot.

Allowing FFDOs to carry the firearms concealed in the same way that LE officers do could also have some unforeseen complications. Unless the FFDO chose to keep the weapon on his/her person at all times, it's still going to spend some time in a hotel room where it can't be properly secured against theft. I don't know how it would work on international flights, but maybe FFDOs can't carry on international routes, anyway. I have no idea how that sort of thing works with FFDOs and sky marshals.

A misconception that is apparently common among FFDOs is that their FFDO status makes them federal law enforcement officers. I've run into at least three FFDOs who tried to convince me this was so (and it's not like I know all that many airline pilots). In each case, the FFDO was trying to "badge" (to make the situation worse, they actually give the FFDOs badges--what are they supposed to be for?) his way into a function or status reserved for active duty LEOs. The FFDO status is essentially a concealed weapon permit good only while on the flight deck of a commercial aircraft.

In any event, thanks for sharing your wisdom and experience here. It's been very entertaining and I've learned a lot.

The Federal government seems to have gone badge happy lately. They've also issued badges to TSA screeners. What a joke! They might as well make the Walmart greeter a Federal Marshal.

Only for practice. I've never had to do one for real. Every once in a while (maybe once every 2 months or so), there will be a remark on our flight plan asking the crew to perform an autoland to keep the plane current for autolands. I've probably done autolands in this situation a dozen times over the years. (Sometimes I'll get on a plane that has the remark "AUTOLAND NOT AUTHORIZED." That's because no one did the requested practice landing and now the plane is no longer current. This could lead to an unnecessary diversion if the weather at the destination goes very low.)

No, I've never heard that one for real. I did once hear "TERRAIN! TERRAIN!" when I was flying the J-32. We were doing a quick reposition from SWF to EWR (Stewart/Newburgh, NY to Newark, NJ) and had been cleared to 2000'. It was a very dark night and as we climbed out we got the GPWS alert. The main thing in this situation is to take action immediately. Don't question it and have a panel discussion with the other pilot about it. ["Hey, what's that all about?" "I dunno, maybe it's malfunct..." BAM!!! <*end of tape*>]

In this case we climbed, busting our assigned altitude. But that's okay when you've got a TCAS or GPWS alert. We just notified ATC that we had gotten the GPWS alert and that we had climbed to whatever altitude we ended up at. He accepted this news very matter-of-factly, saying "Yeah, we get a lot of those down low in that area."

You'll never hear the times it "did any good" because those don't result in accidents and they don't make the news or documentaries. I wouldn't doubt that there have been some cases where the warning has averted a disaster.


I've had my share, almost all from my GA days. In the airline world there's so much planning and preparation for a safe flight, and there's such a great support system during the flight (ATC, Dispatch and Maintenance, using VHF, HF and/or SATCOM as needed...not to mention having two or three pilots on board) that it's very rare to have a situation that really increases the "pucker factor" like it did in some of my GA experiences.

I should point out that GA itself is not inherently riskier or more dangerous. Many of my situations were self-induced. The young me was somewhat bolder. He would fly under the occasional power line crossing a river. (A well-known saying in the flying world: "There are old pilots and there are bold pilots. But there are no old, bold pilots.")

Havent gone through every post, apologize in advance if you have already answered these questions.
Airasia is killing the competition in Asia with their low prices. If thats the case, does it mean that airline company profit margins are huge and marked up very high? Won't be too long til all the discounted airlines clean out the nicer more luxurious airlines.
I read that JAL pilots make the most money at about 250k usd a year? Obv different for every airline but whats the average say 5-10 years experience. If a pilot gets fired from on of the major airlines how hard is it for them to find a new job without moving down to a discounted airline?
How much do flight attendants make?
Rank the hottest flight attendants (which airline they work for)
Any stories of being offered to smuggle cross borders?
When you fly now, you fly coach or first class as economy too uncomfortable for you.
If you must buy some airline stocks, where would you invest your money?
How much security is there on flights now? Can't be only the one air marshal.
Which place do you hate flying to the most?
Your favorite and least favorite destinations/airports?

WOXOF- Yesterday I was MSY- ATL, was on a DC-9, and noted that had been on several of these lately, the cockpit and galley, panels all look really old. So, on my flight I did a quick search 'delta DC9' and found a thread on airline.net about these coming back to Delta via NW, some galley equipment has NWA on it so I concluded that myself. The forum stated DAL last retired DC9 in 1993 or so and that this planes are really old, yesterdays was manufactured in 1972. I know that constantly retrofit these, replace engines, etc, and thoughts?

English is not my first language, and I couldn't imagine what a "greeter" is or does so I googled it.

So it seems there are people whose job it is just to greet customers when they enter a supermarket. The USA is a strange country...

Airline finances are beyond me. There's a lot tricks with accounting methods that they can use to make a particular quarter or year look like a profit or loss. (Amazingly, they always seem to be in dire financial straits when it's time for contract negotiations with pilots, but somehow they find millions for management bonuses.)

As I've mentioned before itt, start-up airlines often have some pretty sweet deals (new aircraft with no payments and free maintenance for a year or more; low labor costs since everyone's on first year pay; incentives from local jurisdictions wanting a new low-cost airline) and because of this they have some good short-term competitive advantage.

You can look here for pilot pay rates at almost every airline out there. These are hourly rates and the amount a pilot can make also depends on the work rules at the particular company (which dictates how many hours per month they can get paid for). Just for a ballpark, multiply the hourly rate by 1000 to get an estimate of the yearly income.

You will notice that a first year Captain at Southwest (i.e. he has one year with the company; nevermind that no one makes Captain in their first year), flying the B-737, makes $174/hour. That's more than an 11 year B-767 Captain at Delta.

They can apply like everyone else to any place that's hiring, and their experience might get them hired pretty quickly somewhere. But they will start as the most junior pilot on the seniority list and start over in accumulating seniority and chasing that upgrade to the left seat.

I don't have a website for that and I don't know exact amounts, but it's significantly less than pilots.

No.

I non-rev, so I sit wherever there's an empty seat. If Business Class or First Class is available, they put me there.

Apple. (I wouldn't touch airline stocks.)

How much more could we stand?

I can't think of any I really hate, but I specifically avoid the following airports on my monthly bid: Dakar, Accra and Georgetown. I've been to Africa once and it wasn't terrible, but I don't need the threat of malaria and too many crew members have gotten it over there. Georgetown is just a crappy trip (takes off at 2 a.m.).

Yes, Delta shed the DC-9s years ago, selling many of them to a new start-up airline at Atlanta named ValueJet (now AirTran). In retrospect, it probably wasn't such a great idea to provide their new competition with cheap airplanes.

With the NW merger, Delta inherited a nice, aging fleet of DC-9s. I've heard they'll be retired before too long, but I don't know any details.

Strange? Or just friendly?

greeters also check that the people walking in have shoes and pants on.

greeter sounds better.

They're mostly retirees looking for some way to kill time and to earn some beer money.

well airasia has been around for 10 years. you still call that a "start-up airline" or what did you mean by that?

you are probably right about the new aircraft and airlines like airasia most likely change their staff efficiently to keep everyone on low salary. it is not like there is any protection for employees around here anyway (here=thailand, malaysia and indonesia where airasia has the biggest hubs)

I guess I was thinking that it might make it into an incident report or an ASRS and would have heard about it, that is, a near miss with terrain I'd think would still get some reporting or investigation.... or not...

You're right. I kind of missed the target with that response.

True. And it may be that they just have deep enough pockets to try to squeeze out the competition. Many airlines will do this in particular markets, sometimes lowering fares below the break-even point, knowing they can weather the red ink longer than the smaller airline.

I'm sure there are cases of such reports that you and I have never heard of. There was one that was fairly well-known within the industry. I can't remember the exact year, but it was within the last decade I think. A 747 lost an engine after takeoff from San Francisco and very nearly hit the rising terrain on the climbout. Given how close they came (a matter of a couple of hundred feet), I'm sure they must have gotten at least the "TERRAIN" warning, and perhaps the "PULL UP!" warning.

I am a latecomer to this thread. I just found it a week ago and read through nearly every post. I can't believe I made it to the end! Thanks so much for the great information.

I live in Fargo and have flown 99% on NWA and now Delta for the last 15 years. I have seen ups and downs but I have to say I have been fairly impressed with Delta's service. I think you are such a great representative for your company.

Anyway, I do have some questions about allowing people to board or deplane after the door has been closed and deplaning at airports that were not the original destination.

A couple of years ago I was flying NRT - DTW - MSP - FAR. We arrived on time in Detroit but the flight to MSP was delayed due to weather in Minneapolis. The flight kept getting pushed back later and later and I feared I wouldn't make it home that day. Finally we took off but about 3/4 of the way to MSP we were diverted. It was my lucky day - we were diverting to Fargo. There were three of us with a final destination at FAR and they pulled up to the gate and let us off. I actually arrived home earlier than my scheduled time. I was afraid I would have been stuck in MSP overnight after being on the ground 10 minutes away from my waiting bed.

I was very (pleasantly) surprised that I was able to get off the plane. I have been on other flights to MSP that were diverted to FAR and every time that happened I was never allowed off the plane. I had to sit on the tarmac and wait, fly back to MSP and find a flight back to FAR. I understand at some airports gates are busy or cannot accommodate some types of aircraft. But that is not the case in Fargo.

Other times when trying to make connections I arrived at the gate just as the door was closing and was denied boarding because the "door was closed". I have even sat and watched planes sitting at the gate for an additional 15 minutes or more with the door closed and not be allowed to get on. I have noticed doors getting closed well ahead of scheduled departure times more frequently lately.

These incidents get me wondering how much the pilot controls in this. Do the gate agents and/or flight attendants make these decisions? Are there specific regulations regarding letting people on/off under these situations? Is the pilot informed or asked about these situations? And what reasons are there for simply not opening the door for someone given plenty of time to do so?

Thanks for your insight.

Great thread!

I don't have a question, I'm just posting a link to a Youtube video of a United 727 landing at Meigs Field prior to its donation to a museum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV4tgjSPgks

The video is a compilation of all the Chicagoland TV station's coverage of the event.

when i flew home from johannesburg (JNB[1]) last year i flew Delta (767 something ER iirc). have you ever been to joburg and/or do you have some reason to include/exclude that city?

also afaik no malaria in gauteng province. i even drank the water! however come to think of it the airport is not particularly close to anything interesting.



somewhat related question: since Delta and KLM are affiliated in some WorldStarPartnerSkyNetwork kind of way, are you able to bid on KLM trips? would you have to bid as a guy with zero experience on their site? can you fly non-rev on their flights and/or receive other privileges as a pax?



unrelated question:

http://www.willflyforfood.com/airlin...Air-Lines.html

why do the hourly rates for pilots vary by aircraft type? does it represent supply and demand, i.e. the most desirable routes tend to be in the bigger/more complex aircraft? does it have something to do with larger aircraft having longer flights and therefore better efficiency for the pilot when calculated as an hourly wage? i can't imagine there's an appreciable "skill" difference in flying a 747 vs a 767 vs a 737.

also, why/how are there hourly rates for 787 pilots? afaik no pilot who isn't Boeing Q. Testpilot has flown a 787, much less in a commercial airline setting.

thx again whiskey ZEE-ro xray!


[1] aka OR Tambo International Airport -- which you've got to admit has a certain ring to it

somehow, this makes me feel better.

in talking with other local pilots, i understand it's very common around here to file "IFR, VFR on top". spring and early summer here are often great flying weather except for a layer of soup and light rain at 800'.

anyway, thanks for the answers to all my questions!

both good to know . thanks.

qfpucker factor and lol.

I've done the ATL Joburg round trip and it was a 777-200LR both ways for me.