Do you basically trust any deadheading pilot from any airline as someone that is qualified to do anything that you can do? I guess it wouldn't really come up much, but just wondering.

Bump for possibly missed question...

Not for anything, but for doing a visual inspection of the wing, I think I'd trust just about any airline pilot.

You're right. I did somehow skip over this one. (Good thing I don't have a job that requires attention to detail, huh?)

It's not much harder than turning smoothly into a parking spot with your car. What was challenging to you when you first started driving becomes second nature after you've been at it for a while. Same with a plane. It doesn't take long to get a feel for how far out to take the nose of the plane before starting that turn (and it's not all that critical; you can make adjustments on the rate of turn as you see how it's working out).

I am watching the documentary on AF1, what a tremendous effort it is to move the POTUS around. WOXOF- I have always been curious about the routine of flying the aircraft, I would like to have a behind the scenes experience of this, would Delta ever allow someone to try out a sim? That would be cool

My plane just got diverted from Ft. Meyers to Dayton, OH. We are getting round trip tickets for free for our next flight, but we have to pay for hotel......fail

well that sucks, guess they are probably blaming it on weather. I got stuck at JFK back in Nov, but Delta gave me a room only because I am Platinum, felt bad for the others

I don't know much about it either. I know that probably 10-20% of our warrant officer pilots went straight in to flight school but I don't know what their qualifications are or what the acceptance rate is. Considering WOCS and flight school is constantly advertised to currently enlisted members but rare for civilian applicants to learn about my guess would be that 20% represents a higher acceptance rate of civilian applicants than enlisted.

I guess then I should just go to a recruitment office? The only thing I am a little bit hesitant about is the recruiter telling me lies so that he can fulfill his quota.

I would contact one of the recruiters dedicated to warrant officer recruiting first. Their information is here: http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warrant/. As far as your local recruiters go, I'd be more concerned with them lying to talk you out of it. Not that I'm saying lying would be common either way, but your local guys are going to focus on pushing through the easy enlistments. WO applications are a process that few of them have any experience with and even fewer want to deal with. I think you'll have to work with them at some point, but if you go in there knowing exactly what you need them for it will be easier on both sides.

Yes, they do this on occasion. A group of frequent fliers associated with FlyerTalk.com arranges a yearly convention of sorts in Atlanta and they have several activities planned in cooperation with Delta, including simulator sessions. These are frequent fliers and highly valued customers.

I am a platinum medaliion, perhaps I should join that group. I did read an article a while back about the influence that forum has had on Delta.

http://www.ajc.com/business/frequent...on-768671.html

Thank you a lot. You have been very helpful.

thanks sledghammer for asking this and w0x (as always) for answering. checking the turn coordinator during initial taxi is an item on the preflight so i usually remember to do it but i realized the other day that i didn't know why the TC should show anything when the wings don't bank. i forgot to look it up but now i don't have to! thanks gents.

btw sledg, i'd be interested in hearing about your instrument training experience. i'm sure i'll start thinking about it once i get some trips under my belt, but the training is sort of expensive and i understand that it's hard to keep your currency unless you fly pretty regularly.

Hey W0X...i knew someone that knew someone and was able to visit the Jet Blue training facility in Orlando almost two months ago. They let me get in the full hydraulic simulator and fly the A320. It was a pretty awesome experience considering I'm fascinated with airplanes yet sort of scared of them(just because it'd be a bad way to go out imo). All-in-all...I'm actually pretty surprised at how easy they are to fly? I did a few take-offs and approach/landings(a landing with about 15 knot crosswind and some turbulence), and never had a crash or anything really close. It was a lot of fun and definitely a cool experience. I know there's a lot of things pilots need to know because if anything goes wrong then I'd be screwed, but assuming everything is perfectly fine and nothing ever went wrong, it seems like it's not too difficult. I'm an avid reader of this thread, thanks for the diligence of keeping up with this thread.

P.S. I'm sure flying in reality is extremely difficult, it'd be like you going all-in with QQ and holding up against AK and saying EZ game.

P.(P.?)S. I know I know...poker analogies... *sigh*

w0x,

i'd like to kick it back to some GA if you don't mind...

vfr flying is tough in the pacific northwest during the winter[1], so for now my flying time is limited. but soon it will be spring and then summer, and as the weather improves i expect i'm going to want to fly more often and take some longer trips -- particularly some overnighters.

i have been renting the 152 i trained in from the school that trained me, but they obviously want that plane available for training and student practice. hence, i will be looking for other options.

there's a flight club at BFI which is cheap and has a few 150s and 172s but they are what you would expect: kinda old (no i did not mean to type "152s"), kinda beat-up, maintenance records a little confused (especially little stuff like how much oil is she drinking), etc.

moving up the scale, there's the rental/charter places like Wings Aloft and Galvin. they seem to have some pretty fancy 172s with glass cockpits 'n ****.

then there are leasing/shared ownership/outright ownership situations.

so, my questions:

1. as a noob pilot with ~70 hours, what can i expect from contacting these organizations? i assume they'll want me to take someone on some kind of checkride? will the higher end charter services tell me to buzz off until i have more experience? how excited are share owners going to be about selling a piece to a greenhorn?

what about when i'm visiting friends in distant cities? is it going to be harder to rent an aircraft as a noob who also trained in another area? i assume this effect would vary with the area -- easier in Middle Of Nowhere, KS than in Southern CA (which has some moderately exciting airspace)?

i realize at some point i'm just going to have to talk to these people and find out, but i'm wondering if you can give a rough idea of what i might expect or what i could say or ask about when entering these discussions.

2. is there anything special about renting an airplane for a weekend or a week or a month? i understand that the company is going to have some minimum Hobbs meter charge per day, but is that all there is to it?

3. about those overnighters: i figure i'll start close and expand my scope as i gain experience. something like: portland, southern OR/northern CA, bay area, vegas, san diego. at what point will i want to move past the c172? any recommendations? at what point do i start needing more ratings -- is it dumb to fly more than, say, 500 miles without an instrument rating?

geez this is a long post. sorry about that. thanks for any advice!

[1] although we did have a break between storms and an absolutely gorgeous day on sunday. got to take the bf to friday harbor (FHR) for breakfast, where "downtown" and multiple non-airport restaurants are a 10-minute walk from the airport. the novelty is enhanced by the realization that a trip which takes about an hour in a c152 would take half a day by other means (car + ferry). also, the san juans are pretty.

I loved this part! Made me smile. Yep, the job is a piece of cake when everything goes well. Reminds me of the line I heard from Matt Damon on a recent episode of "30 Rock." He was deriding Liz's ability to fly his plane: "Yeah, right! Good luck pressing "Takeoff", then "autopilot", then "Land!"

Extremely difficult? No. It really is pretty easy (when you're trained for it) most of the time. The times you really earn your paycheck are when things are going wrong, but even then I wouldn't say "extremely difficult"; I'd probably say "challenging."

(As for the poker analogies...if you can't use them in this forum, then where?)

I don't mind at all...I love GA!

I think the last C-152 came off the assembly line in 1977. Not that this is really that big a concern. It's a very simple airplane and probably has a useful life of at least 50 years if properly maintained.

Yes, a checkout is mandatory. I have to get one when I rent from a new place too. Yes, they're duly impressed with my credentials and my obvious mastery of the subject material...and then they tell me to shut up and get in the plane.

The checkout is a requirement of their insurance and everyone has to get one. I rent from a local flying school (Aviation Adventures) and I have to stay current with them (three takeoff and landings every 90 days) or else it's another quick ride with an instructor. My checkout ride was very short (~30 minutes) because the instructor knew me and was happy with my flying. For someone with 70 hours total time, they'd probably spend 1-2 hours on the checkout.

This will probably also be driven by their insurance. If they have high performance aircraft, their insurance may require a minimum number of hours, both total time and in the specific aircraft model. It's not unusual for them to want 200 or more hours TT and 10 hours in make and model.

Same thing. If the other share owners all have >1000 hours TT and hundreds of hours in that make and model, they probably enjoy lower insurance rates. You joining the mix will almost certainly cause an increase in premiums.

Not to sound like a broken record, but it's just going to be another checkout. In SoCal, the checkout will probably last longer because there's more to cover regarding the restricted airspace and local flight rules.

The checkout will be a mini-checkride. You can expect the instructor to ask for a demonstration of stalls, slow flight, steep turns and simple navigation (e.g. select a nearby VOR and fly direct to it). This will be followed by pattern work, including a normal landing, short and/or soft field landing, simulated power-off landing and maybe a no-flap landing.

The instructor may cut the ride short when he observes your high level of skill and sure-handed control of the plane. They'll be looking for a professional approach to flying, including consistent use of checklists. They're really just trying to get a warm feeling that their plane is safe when you take it out on your own.

Pretty much. If you satisfy their minimum (usually they want an average of 2-3 hours per day), you can take it wherever you want.

You could fly the 172 forever if that fits your needs and you enjoy it. It's a good plane and I still rent them. About six months ago I took three friends to Atlantic City for a day of poker. If you like Cessnas, the 182 is also a good plane and carries a good load. I also like the Cardinal, C-177. It has better lateral visibility than the others because the wing is set back a bit.

As for flying more than 500 miles without an instrument rating, this depends on your check of the weather. If you have a good high pressure system that is forecast to be around for a while, then it shouldn't be a problem. However, I have seen situations where the en route weather is great, but VFR pilots are stuck on the ground because of some local ground fog.

I remember taking off from Bader Field (Atlantic City) one night in thick fog. I could only see two stripes in front of me on the runway (probably 1/8 mile visibility or less). But the fog was only about 150' deep and I broke into a beautiful clear sky less than a minute after takeoff. Without the instrument rating I would have been stuck.

I can't answer all of your questions but I can answer a few of them.

As long as you have your license and are current, all you will have to do is go up with one of the FBO's instructors and get checked out. They will basically make sure you meet the minimum standards and are knowledgeable. This will actually be a good time to get any local airport knowledge that you might otherwise not have known. As long as you have money and are a decent pilot, you will not get turned away.

I am not really familiar with the weather in the northwest, but I don't think it is the worst thing in the world to take extended trips without an instrument rating. If you have time constraints such as work or the FBO needs their airplane back, I wouldn't cut anything too close time-wise. Much more importantly in my opinion, however, is that you never stray outside your or your airplane's level of ability. I am sure you will encounter some borderline situations where you are feeling a bit uncomfortable but at the same time you don't want the PITA of diverting. As a pilot with more experience than you, I would offer you the advice that whenever there is any sort of a marginal situation, get that thing on the ground.

In one of my first solo cross country flights from Greenwood Lake, NJ (4N1) to Trenton-Robbinsville, NJ (N87), there were ceilings of 3.5 and about 3 miles of visibility. I had some actual IFR experience at that time, but let me tell you- flying at 3,499', alone, for about the third time with nothing but my VOR to navigate with, I was scared. I was tracking the Sparta VOR (SAX) inbound to 4N1 the entire time back. I intercepted it and then I turned towards 4N1 to take it in for landing. Something happened though, and after about 10 minutes I still couldn't see the airport. If you think being temporarily unaware of your position is uncomfortable in VFR, it is magnified about 10x in marginal VFR/ IFR conditions. I am sure W0X0F can't relate to this too much because he uses his pussy-ass GPS crap.

Edit: Sorry W0X0F I just saw your response. I would take you over me anytime in a tough spot in a GA aircraft (not that I wouldn't have before haha).

If you were flying over an airport that had ground fog and you do not have your instrument rating could you land if you needed to refuel? I remember my CFI going over a topic like this, but it was a couple of months ago. Could ATC give you clearance?

I know wake turbulence advisories are issued to arriving a/c behind departing larger/heavy a/c but only for 2/3 minutes (and definitely not the case there).

****, the secret's out. Mods please delete this thread.

Excellent advice. I did my share of scud running in my pre-IFR days and I scared myself more than once. A lot of fatal accident reports have the probable cause listed as "Continued flight into IFR by non-IFR rated pilot."

One instance that really got my heart pounding was when I was flying back from Texas in my Cherokee 180. As I neared Nashville, the ceiling kept getting lower and I kept descending to stay VFR. Ultimately, I was at about 900' agl and trying to keep track of where I was, with a sectional chart open on my lap. After looking down for several seconds, I looked up to see the flashing strobe on a radio or TV tower. And when I say "I looked up", I'm not just talking about turning my attention outside...I was actually looking up! That tower was over 1000' agl. I turned away from it and after just a few seconds found myself looking up at yet another strobe on a tall tower! I had gotten myself in the middle of an antenna farm and I was lucky to escape unscathed.

When you first start flying, you will inevitably do some stupid things in an airplane. If you're lucky, you survive and they become part of your experience base. I was very lucky...and I was cured of scud running.

ATC would probably ask if you are instrument capable and qualified. You could lie of course, because no one's checking a database to confirm it, but attempting to land in the fog is a good way to kill yourself. It looks benign from above because you can see the entire airport when you look through a thin fog. But when are looking horizontally through it, you'll find it's a different story.

Still, if you're running out of fuel and options, you can declare an emergency and do anything you think is necessary, including attempting an instrument landing without being rated for it. Of course, you'll have some explaining to do afterward (assuming you survive the landing).

I searched this thread for "cellphone" with no answer

WHy can't you use your cellphone? and if i did turn it on for 10 min. or so would anyone know? I don't think a cell phone would work at 30,000 ft. or does it? Thanks