Ask me about being an airline pilot or flying in general
10-12-2010
, 04:23 PM
Hey W0X0F!
Quick TR and question:
So a few weeks ago, my old college buddy who owns a Cherokee texts me Fri night "Laughlin tomorrow?" (We are in Phoenix, AZ) I think WTF @ Laughlin, but whatever, sure! We head over to the airport bright and early and I tell him that this trip is going to cost me at least 40k. Probably a lot more. He asked if I was going to gamble pretty hard or what. "Nope, because I'm going to end up buying a plane."
On the way:
My buddy ended up showing me how I've been a lousy degenerate. We radioed the FBO 30 min out and had them call the casino to send a car. Comped. We checked into a room (comped) just so we could shower after swimming. We ate 3 meals at the restaurant (comped again). Then at the end of the day, they sent us back to the airport in another limo (comped of course). Apparently all you have to do is gamble too much and ask for that stuff.
On to my questions.
We flew back at night. Obviously Arizona has mountainous terrain, so I wanted to get your opinion on the sanity of VFR night flights in single engine planes over mountain ranges. It was a typical Arizona day, meaning there was no evidence of that thing other people call weather (no haze, no clouds anywhere - so no danger of VFR into IFR). We had flight following and the plane was equipped with GPS that had terrain.
As a side note, I was watching him carefully on the approaches to see if I could notice anything alarming. He maintained his approach speed pretty precisely until round out and kept the ball centered. Anything else to look for in terms of red flags in a private pilot? All in all, the airspace was surprisingly quiet both ways.
My main question is this: In your opinion, is it stupid to do a VFR night flight like that, assuming a reasonably competent pilot?
Quick TR and question:
So a few weeks ago, my old college buddy who owns a Cherokee texts me Fri night "Laughlin tomorrow?" (We are in Phoenix, AZ) I think WTF @ Laughlin, but whatever, sure! We head over to the airport bright and early and I tell him that this trip is going to cost me at least 40k. Probably a lot more. He asked if I was going to gamble pretty hard or what. "Nope, because I'm going to end up buying a plane."
On the way:
My buddy ended up showing me how I've been a lousy degenerate. We radioed the FBO 30 min out and had them call the casino to send a car. Comped. We checked into a room (comped) just so we could shower after swimming. We ate 3 meals at the restaurant (comped again). Then at the end of the day, they sent us back to the airport in another limo (comped of course). Apparently all you have to do is gamble too much and ask for that stuff.
On to my questions.
We flew back at night. Obviously Arizona has mountainous terrain, so I wanted to get your opinion on the sanity of VFR night flights in single engine planes over mountain ranges. It was a typical Arizona day, meaning there was no evidence of that thing other people call weather (no haze, no clouds anywhere - so no danger of VFR into IFR). We had flight following and the plane was equipped with GPS that had terrain.
As a side note, I was watching him carefully on the approaches to see if I could notice anything alarming. He maintained his approach speed pretty precisely until round out and kept the ball centered. Anything else to look for in terms of red flags in a private pilot? All in all, the airspace was surprisingly quiet both ways.
My main question is this: In your opinion, is it stupid to do a VFR night flight like that, assuming a reasonably competent pilot?
Last edited by Equus asinus; 10-12-2010 at 04:24 PM.
Reason: PS Thanks again for the thread! Can't believe it's still going strong!
10-13-2010
, 12:10 PM
That was Tex Johnson rolling the prototype of the Boeing 707. He almost got fired for this, but he was a highly valued test pilot and kept his job. I'm not nearly as highly valued and any "individual expression" by me would almost surely result in termination (not to mention legal action).
The plane Tex was flying, N70700, is sitting in the Steven Udvar-Hazy Air & Space Museum at Dulles Airport in northern Virginia. Here's a pic I took there (one of about 600):
The plane Tex was flying, N70700, is sitting in the Steven Udvar-Hazy Air & Space Museum at Dulles Airport in northern Virginia. Here's a pic I took there (one of about 600):
10-14-2010
, 06:56 PM
Quote:
I enjoyed your TR...nice picture! I'll answer your last question first: night VFR in a single engine plane is not something I'm crazy about, though I've done it plenty of times. A friend of mine who is a retired Vietnam-era C-130 pilot likes to say: "One engine by day, two engines by night, four engines over water." (He was pre-ETOPS.)
I flew a single engine plane to the Bahamas...70 miles of open water between West Palm and Freeport. As soon as I went "feet wet", that engine seemed to go on automatic rough. I was watching those engine instruments like a hawk and imagined all kinds of strange engine noises. You get the same worries when flying at night. Who needs the anxiety?
I remember when I was taking lessons for my Private Pilot license, my instructor discussed how to handle an engine failure at night. First, you trim up the airplane for best glide speed. Then, when getting close to the ground, turn the landing light on. If you don't like what you see, turn it back off. That's about all you can do.
As for your first question (red flags to look for in a private pilot), I think you just want to look for someone who is methodical and seems to operate with an easy self-assurance. Like Charles Emerson Winchester ("Gentlemen. I do one thing at a time. I do it very well. And then I move on.")
Control inputs should be smooth and you shouldn't feel any significant g-forces. Airspeed should not fluctuate more than +/- 10 knots and he should be able to hold a steady altitude within +/- 50'.
The biggest single thing I'd look for is attitude. You want a professional, methodical approach to flying. I'm not saying I was always this way. In my early days, I did some things in airplanes that were not the safest, such as flying down the Potomac River below treetop height, or flying underneath high tension power lines. And it was fun. But I was taking chances that I didn't need to be taking.
I flew a single engine plane to the Bahamas...70 miles of open water between West Palm and Freeport. As soon as I went "feet wet", that engine seemed to go on automatic rough. I was watching those engine instruments like a hawk and imagined all kinds of strange engine noises. You get the same worries when flying at night. Who needs the anxiety?
I remember when I was taking lessons for my Private Pilot license, my instructor discussed how to handle an engine failure at night. First, you trim up the airplane for best glide speed. Then, when getting close to the ground, turn the landing light on. If you don't like what you see, turn it back off. That's about all you can do.
As for your first question (red flags to look for in a private pilot), I think you just want to look for someone who is methodical and seems to operate with an easy self-assurance. Like Charles Emerson Winchester ("Gentlemen. I do one thing at a time. I do it very well. And then I move on.")
Control inputs should be smooth and you shouldn't feel any significant g-forces. Airspeed should not fluctuate more than +/- 10 knots and he should be able to hold a steady altitude within +/- 50'.
The biggest single thing I'd look for is attitude. You want a professional, methodical approach to flying. I'm not saying I was always this way. In my early days, I did some things in airplanes that were not the safest, such as flying down the Potomac River below treetop height, or flying underneath high tension power lines. And it was fun. But I was taking chances that I didn't need to be taking.
During the day I was watching for good places to land in an emergency and I was quite surprised how many there were. I guess there are some advantages to not having trees lol.
The other passenger was pretty nervous. It was only his second time in a small plane. The guy flying told him to talk about his concerns and ask questions, so we ended up discussing night time emergencies quite a bit on the way back. We were in a particularly dark area and he asked, "what would your plan be right now?" The answer was:
Airport close -> go there ldo. Especially if it is only "engine trouble" and there is still some power. Ex. "Low/no oil pressure - it will kill the engine to keep running it, but who cares at that point?" At that moment the closes airfield was 17nm. He said it was too far to glide at our current altitude, but if we still had some power we could probably make it.
Second choice -> Head for one of of the squiggly lines on the GPS (i.e... roads). There were a few closer.
I was surprised to learn that during his training, they literally made him land on a dirt road during an engine failure drill. Seems pretty crazy to me. I guess they probably are pretty familiar with the training areas. I think the flight school has a bit of a cowboy reputation because of stuff like that. On the other hand, they have been in business since the 70's and claim that they never have had a former student die in a crash.
Hopefully I'll bump the thread again sometime next year to report I pulled the trigger on training.
This thread is definitely one of the major sparks that reignited a childhood dream that got put off. You should probably get some sort of commission from the schools.
10-16-2010
, 02:50 PM
