god damn it. Now I'm going to have to read about the case again. I love this kind of stuff but I was resigned just to let this one fly by without an opinion but now this has me interested

Its always a big story when either exchange students or tourists are murdered or charged with a crime in a foreign country. There is just so much more that comes into play regarding the international process

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22332240...crime_reports/

Alleged sadistic ultimately fatal sexual assault of her roommate + framing her boss + threesomes with love-smitten men who do her every bidding + wild hot young American chick going nutso in in Italy + acting all bubbly and irrepressible when she gets arrested = there's a lot to be fascinated by. I've been following the story and I usually ignore this kind of stuff too. According the Dad of the boyfreind she's accused with, the boyfriend told the Dad "she lives a life of pure pleasure".

After watching the 48 hours show, I don’t see any reliable evidence to justify convicting Amanda or her Boyfriend.

The biggest problem I have is that Rudy Guede (a known criminal in the area whom no association between Knox and her boyfriend can be established) was convicted of the murder.

Additionally, he fled to Germany the next day but was eventually tracked down. He admitted to having sex with the victim but said someone came in and killed her while he was in the bathroom but it wasn’t him. He never brought up Amanda or her boyfriend. However, after hours of interrogation, he said they all three committed the murder in some kind of sex/murder scenario.

A forensic expert at testified at the trial of Rudy Guede that the victim was stabbed by a single person (not sure how you prove this).

Rudy Guede was the only suspect whose DNA and fingerprints were found on the body.

Rudy Guede is the only suspect who had a criminal past and the only one who fled the country.

According to a private investigator,, there were no records of cell phone calls or text messages between Rudy, Amanda and her boyfriend, yet he and the prosecution claims the entire murder was planned In advance by all three parties and all 3 parties had a long standing relationship.

The victim was stabbed over 40 times and I have not seen any DNA evidence or blood evidence presented that tie the murder to Amanda or her Boyfriend. I believe it’s extremely difficult to participate in a crime this bloody but clean up so thoroughly that only small amounts of DNA are found under questionable circumstances.

To my knowledge, both defendants have repeatedly and adamantly denied any involvement.

The prosecutor, Giuliano Mignini, is purported to be a radical conspiracy theorist (great qualifications for a prosecutor) He had an American reporter jailed who was doing research for a book about a serial killer in Italy after deciding the reporter was the murderer – see http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/archives/131443.asp He is also under indicted for abuse of office and accused of obstruction of justice & illegally wire tapping journalist but still allowed to try the case.

Here’s a link to some of the purported facts regarding the case.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/206682

I’m sure there is a lot more we haven’t heard about, but if this is all they have, then I think a conviction would be ridiculous.

Having said that, it appears this case has been tried in the press and I suspect there will be a lot of pressure on the jurors and two judges deciding this case to convict. I also wonder how the predominately catholic society will influence how the evidence or lack thereof will be interpreted.

Therefore, I predict a guilty verdict

I'm actually confused by a few things. Whats the deal on the outcry of the Italian judicial system? Has something happened that would be unfathomable here or is this just her supporters crying foul for the hell of it?

All I've read so far is something about the prosecutor getting in trouble for illegal wire taps in the 70's and 80's which isn't the equivalent of planting evidence or anything.

Like I've said I haven't read much yet, but am I going to find anything about these sex game motives? Or is it just something that is being painted by the prosecution as some sort of explanation for the act?


I guess Ill watch the 48 hours mystery next. Not sure if its going to be slanted at all but if so, Ill counter it with this site I found but yet to have looked at, True Justice for Meredith:

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C360/


I'm also trying to come up with a reason to believe Amanda and why she would tell such differing stories in relation to that night and it isn't looking good so far.


Edited to add that the post above mine wasn't there when I was typing this, so I know some of my questions have been addressed

Stopped reading here. I thought I read that they had phone records between Knox and him calling each other before and after the crime

Not hot imo.... therefore, GUILTY!!!

edit: she's apparently crazy as a loon though, so she's probably good in the sack.

Hot

Need more pics to reach unbiased verdict imo.

She's a two-face!

That's what they said in the video, who knows for sure. I would think this could be cleared up easily in the trial.

On the link you sent, it says:

20:18 - Amanda Knox in Via Ulisse Rocchi receives a text message (sms) from Patrick Lumumba telling her not to come to work that night.

Now if Amanda, her boyfriend and Guede had planned in advance to kill Merideth that night, why would they do it on a night Amanda thought she had to work (as evidenced by the text from Lumumba)?

So what about her actively trying to frame her boss? And lying about initially being at the house that night? Also the DNA evidence on the knife. And weren't there a bunch of footprints in the room belonging the boyfriend? When Amanda claimed neither she nor her boyfriend had been in Meredith's locked room.

Pretty sure the footprints were the same type of shoe (and I assume size) as her boyfriend's, but it can't be proven that it was the exact shoe.

Thinking back now, if it was a blood footprint, did they test his shoe for blood?

See comments above but let me disclaim my answers because they are subject to my shaky memory and relying upon info I've seen on TV or read on the internet which God only knows what is true or false.

The thing I find most compelling is the conviction of a guy who did admit being there, has a criminal past, left DNA at the scene, admitted to having sex with the victim, fled the country and no association between him and the other two suspects can be established. He does things most criminals do: lie, flee & leave evidence.

Having said all of the above, I would need a lot more verifiable evidence for me to render a verdict. However, based on what I've seen/read so far, my opinion is they were not involved, but I can be compelled to change my mind if more facts are brought to my attention.

I find it fascinating to speculate on what may or may not have occurred.

It seems like a lot of times the simplest answer is the most accurate:

Horny/power hungry guy rapes girl and kills her to cover up the crime.

http://www.mahalo.com/amanda-knox

7:45am looking at cleaning products the morning after the murder.

I agree with everything you wrote, if there was no interaction between the guy who was convicted and Knox, and would be fine with a not guilty.

With that said, the whole conflicting stories thing is really suspicious and I'm the type of person that usually sides with a defendant and am fully aware of police interrogation, false confessions, and the likes.

Apparently, I'm reading, that Knox and her boyfriend's stories are also different. She says she was at his house the whole night, he says she left from 9pm to 1am. Their cell phones were turned off at the same time (830pm) and then turned on at the same time (6am) despite claims that they both slept in the next morning. And his computer was used at 530 am. Something isn't adding up, but like you I need to find more out about their relationship with the guy who was proven to bang the victim and take a dump at her place that night

Loving the Italian creeper dude checking out her ass.

Man, that is odd. I guess they could be so shrewd as to make sure they never left any evidence of having a relationship with Rudy.

How can they tell when a phone or computer is turned on or off?

I never turn off my cell phone so the synchronous on/off of both of their phones is odd unless they decided to have sex and didn't want to be interupted which seems reasonable.

Where did you find the stuff about their phones and computer?

It's just so damn odd, crimes of passion leave evidence everywhere and planned crimes typically have a very obvious motive.

This case seems to have neither. I'm dubious of the whole sex/drug/halloween motive.

It's a real head scratcher.

Does anyone know what the standard for concluding guilt is in Italy (ex: beyond a reasonable doubt in the USA)?

Is it just me or are these motives a real reach?

On December 1, 2009, attorneys for Knox stated that the prosecutors in the case had changed motives. Initially the prosecutors claimed she committed the murder during a sex game, while recently they claim she was seeking revenge for being criticized for her tendency to bring men back to their apartment and sloppy housekeeping skills.

http://www.mahalo.com/amanda-knox

pretty damn suspicious (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...oxs-alibi.html)

Was the receipt presented in court? If so, it could have a date and time stamp on it

I read the stuff about the phones on that truejustice site. Im assuming your phone stays in constant contact with a tower so they can trace when it is off or on.

Im like you the only time my phone is off is when I cant find it and the battery ran out (which is often), so I find it really odd that both of theirs were off and on at the same time. With that said I dont get a lot of calls so if people say that they turn it off at night or when they dont want to be bugged, who am i to argue.

About the motives:

I understand why prosecutors want a motive but I think you can shoot yourself in the foot making one up if you don't have one. I, too, think the motives they have presented seem kinda random and are probably hurting them when it comes to public opinion. I still haven't figured out how they came up with the sex game one. It seems somewhat slanderous.

One bizarre thing is the third guy has already been found guilty of murder in a completely seperate trial.

From what I can gather from reading the papers it seems there is some seriously suspicious **** here but I don't know if that means guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Ie I think she probably did it but would find her not guilty.

Found the answer:

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index....illers_weapon/

Do jurors have to find Knox guilty beyond a reasonable doubt?
Yes. The concept of proof beyond a reasonable doubt has long been a part of Italy’s justice system. It was formalized and passed into law in 2006.

Knox’s defense lawyer Luciano Ghirga said his team will remind jurors that, even after more than 40 hearings, everything is still in doubt.
The court’s ruling (which is not called a verdict in Italy) is made by an eight-member jury: six laymen and two professional judges. They will vote, and the majority rules. In the case of a 4-4 tie, acquittal overrules.

Majority rules is a much lighter standard than in the US. I think she's in deep pucky

Lol Italians. Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt introduced in 2006. Defendants expected to lie....

Wow, so a 5-3 majority puts you in the slammer? That's completely ****ed up. Good thing it's Italy though, so you'll only go to jail for like 18 years when you commit murder and then be out on the streets in 8 or 10.