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Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?
View Poll Results: Is Amanda Knox innocent or guilty of murdering Meredith Kercher in Perugia Italy?
There is reasonable doubt here and should be found not guilty.
381 26.89%
She is guilty as can be and should be found guilty.
550 38.81%
She is completely innocent and should be acquitted.
168 11.86%
Undecided
318 22.44%

04-13-2014 , 11:59 PM
lolconfessionments

You guilters are morally ******ed and obviously lack any street sense for still not being able to understand how awful this "confession" is considering the giant picture painted around it. It wasn't even allowed in the trial for good (legal) reason, so why back one of the most obviously flawed pieces of evidence?

Besides other problems with it, one of my favorites is that there is not a single explanation or narrative of the crime with any details what so ever on what occurred there that night or why.

Plus, the other main accomplish (Raffeale) isn't even mentioned in it as to being there, at all.

Hmmm
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
04-14-2014 , 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Dine
You make your LIE claim based upon what evidence or logic?

I already posted my evidence that supports Amanda's claim that she was told to IMAGINE that she was there at the cottage while Kercher was being murdered by Lumumba. That evidence would be Anna Donnino's testimony, which I've AGAIN pasted down below.

Anna Donnino's testimony (down below) is taken from a 'Guilter' website, which may affect its translation accuracy; nevertheless, Donnino's testimony is still damning evidence against the prosecution since it clearly supports Amanda's version of that (supposedly) UNRECORDED all-night interrogation.

It's now clear that during the all-night interrogation of Nov 5-6, that police bilingual interrogator Anna Donnino had told Amanda that trauma can cause a person to repress their memories during traumatic events, as happened to Donnino (so she claims).

Anna Donnino clearly attempted to soften Amanda up by telling her that it's perfectly normal for your brain to suppress memories, as Anna Donnino told Amanda had happened to her when she broke both of her legs in an accident.

There can be no plausible reason why Anna Donnino would relate her own experiences with memory lapses, other than to try to get Amanda to work around her own possible trauma-inducing memory lapses by IMAGINING that Amanda was at the cottage during the murder.

I once hit a dog while riding my motorcycle (resulting in road-rash up the yeng-yang), but I've never told that story to new acquaintances as an ice-breaker when trying to develop a human bond with them, as Domino had claimed doing with Amanda.

Anna Donnino told Amanda her accident story for a reason, and that reason (according to Amanda & logic) was a lame attempt to help Amanda remember what Anna Donnino felt were similarly suppressed memories.

After telling Amanda about her own trauma-induced suppress memories, I guess you could argue that Amanda was wrong and that Anna Donnino had other reasons for relating that story, but calling Amanda's version a LIE is over the top.

Anna Donnino's below admission certainly tends to support Amanda's version of the events that night.

Interestingly, Anna Donnino is clearly the one with memory problems since she can't remember much about that all-night interrogation she was present at, so it's rather ironic when Donnino claims Amanda had memory lapses for not remembering details of the night of the murder since dimwit Donnino never considered the possibility that Amanda didn't remember being there that night because she wasn't there:
It appears that you accidentally put Mignini instead of Massei after "Judge"?
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
04-14-2014 , 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14cobster
It appears that you accidentally put Mignini instead of Massei after "Judge"?
Thanks –– elevating dumb-a$$ Mignini to a judgeship was my worst error of the year so far.
:-)
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
04-14-2014 , 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Dine
Thanks –– elevating dumb-a$$ Mignini to a judgeship was my worst error of the year so far.
:-)
I finally got around to reading a little about Mignini. He really goes after people. Perhaps his wild theories and allegations leave him insecure about himself and even a little paranoid.
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
04-14-2014 , 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkasigh

Occam's razor can be easily applied to the given case.

To extrapolate from the available evidence to a scenario of A. Knox and R. Sollecito's involvement you have to make assumptions that are not supported by any evidence (they were all in a sex cult, or maybe they entered the flat while R. Guede was committing rape and then helped him clean up, or maybe they paid him to do it, or they committed the murder together and then A. Knox and R. Sollecito cleaned up all evidence of their presence, but somehow left the evidence of R. Guede's presence completely undisturbed).

To extrapolate to the scenario of R. Guede's guilt, you don't need to make any unsupported assumptions, since the evidence speaks for itself.
But ...but ..but, Rudy couldn't have done the murder all by himself, so he must have had accomplices ...Oski says that a Trier-of-Fact has so ruled!

Of course, The ME who did the actual autopsy, Dr Lalli, had testified in the Massei trial that it could have been one or more assailants, but didn't rule out a lone assailant.

In fact, during the Massei trial all of the hired (forensic) guns on both sides came to the same conclusion as Dr Lalli, with the lone exception of the expert hired by the Kerchers (see quotes below).

Of course, even if Oski's Trier-of-Fact was correct and all the experts were wrong, that still doesn't mean Amanda was Guede's accomplice since Guede may have brought a cohort along with him?

Of course, since the court had concluded the break-in was staged and that Guede was let into the cottage by someone with a key, and since the Trier-of-Fact felt Kercher wouldn't have done that, clearly Amanda did it!

However, since both Amanda & Filomena had keys, under the Trier-of-Fact's overly strained reasoning (and Italians prefer convoluted conspiracies to Occam's Razor simplicity), either Amanda or Filomena had to have let in Guede since they both had keys, and both women had the EXACT same alibi, that they had spent the evening of Nov 1st with their boyfriends.

Of course, Raffaele's apartment was only 5 minutes from the cottage, and Luca & Filomena were 10 minutes away, so obviously it would have been 5 minutes easier for Amanda & Raffaele to reach the cottage, so the police never looked at Luca & Filomena ...besides, Filomena had immediately lawyered up, so she would have been a harder nut to crack.

The cottage's land-lady also had a key (as well as other people), but they obviously weren't clearly evil and possessed by the Devil, as Mignini viewed Amanda to be, so only Amanda was investigated.

Further damning her alibi, Amanda had turned off her cell-phone around 9:00 pm, which was deemed very suspicious by the Trier-of-Fact. Of course, if Amanda had left her cell-phone on, then that too would have been suspicious, because, why would Amanda leave her phone turned on back in Raffaele's apartment when she went to the cottage to murder Kercher?

YEPPERS, there's a ton of evidence against Amanda (of that same sort!)

Quote:
Experts cannot rule out that Meredith was murdered by one person
The opinion of the experts at trial was that the number, type and location of knife wounds does not prove the presence of multiple assailants. The court ignores these experts and simply concludes that there were several attackers in the room. This conclusion goes against the evidence.

The blood stain patterns are more consistent with a single attacker. Dr. Lalli, the Coroner that performed the autopsy, was unable to say that there was clearly more than one attacker.


Dr. Liviero, a police doctor testifying for the prosecution, states
“a single attacker could have done it.”

Dr. Torre, testifying for the defense, sees only one attacker.
“There was a scuffle first then stabbing, that could have been from one person.”

Dr. Cingolani, a forensic expert, also said one person could have been involved. “She was grabbed by the neck very violently. Bruising on the face and nose trying to silence her, but there is no other evidence of holding her down. Her left elbow shows signs she injured it when she fell down onto the floor. The other injuries are very small. During group violence, injuries are usually bigger and more striking. The violent grasping of her throat, neck and face rules out being held down by others. If there were three people, there would be no need to use two knives.”

Massei – pg 120:

[114] Professor Bacci, a consultant appointed by the Public Prosecutor together with Professor Marchionni and Dr. Liviero, gave his assessment at the hearing on April 18, 2009.

Dr. Bacci, a medical examiner testifying for the prosecution, reaches the same conclusion.

“The biological data cannot tell us if it was one or more persons who killed Meredith.”

Massei – pg 122:


[118] He (Bacci) indicated that the biological data did not allow for a determination of whether the injuries were caused by one person or by several people, claiming they were compatible with both possibilities "because one person could have acted and hit at [different] times in a kind of struggle, if we can use the term in quotation marks; he might have been one person acting alone and that would be compatible, or it could be with the avvicendamento [joining or alternation] of several people and this also would work" (page 22).

Massei – pg 148:

At the hearing of September 19, 2009 the experts appointed by the judge (GIP) at the sitting of the preliminary hearing were heard: Professor Anna Aprile. Professor Mario Cingolani, Professor Giancarlo Umani Ronchi.

Massei – pg 153:

He (Cingolani) further declared that there was a disproportion between the lesions suffered by the victim and the defensive lesions, which could be interpreted as lesions [sustained when trying to] get away. He was unable to provide an explanation for such a disproportion, which he held to be compatible with the presence of more than one person, but also with the action of a sole person who acts in a progressive manner (pages 128 and 129).
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
04-15-2014 , 12:00 PM
Simply put, a great number of people cannot comprehend someone making a false statement so they discount the possibility altogether. Amanda stated very clearly at the first trial how it happened. The key factors were the police misinterpreting her text message, the police convincing her they had hard evidence putting her there that night, and the interpreter suggesting she had repressed the memories due to a traumatic event. From there she says the police, not Amanda herself, suggested logical lines of thought such as she must have heard a scream, that resulted in the statement.

Of course she could be lying, but what is the reasoning for why we should believe that?
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
04-17-2014 , 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Dine

They NEVER told Amanda that she was a SUSPECT, they just said they wanted Amanda's help, and Amanda was raised to trust in the good intentions of authorities, so she complied.

Of course, the requests by the police for Amanda's help were interlaced with verbal & physical abuse and threats of going to jail for 30 years if she wouldn't play along, so in the hindsight of an older person (as most of us here likely are), a more mature savvy person may have refused to play along with the police requests to IMAGINE that they were there during the murder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LostOstrich

cite?
Thanks for asking since I have credible citations for everything I post here –– watch the video on this page which shows Amanda standing up in open court to explain how she had been abused by the Italian police in the wee hours of Nov 6th 2007:

http://cnnpresents.blogs.cnn.com/category/amanda-knox/

It would be an easy matter for the Italians to prove Amanda was lying about her abuse – the Italians just need to release the recordings of Amanda & Raffaele's interrogations!

Of course, the Italians CANNOT release those recordings since they would prove Amanda was telling the truth!

Mignini's claim that they didn't record those interrogations due to budgetary problems is utter horse-manure since it costs nearly zilch to make a recording these days.

There may be some extra costs if you need to transcribe those recording to written form, but once the equipment is installed, the recordings themselves cost very little money to make.

If you believe Mignini, he admitted that all the other witnesses in the case were both recorded and transcribed (such as Kercher's 8 English girlfriends), but the most important interview of all, Amanda's late night Nov. 6th interrogation, that one Mignini claims they didn't have money to record?

Where is your common sense? MIGNINI LIES!!!

AGAIN, here are Mignini's dumb LYING comments in the CNN interview I had posted earlier:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Dine

Mignini's LIES continue –– NOTE how Mignini claims there wasn't a budget problem in taping the interrogations of Meredith's eight English friends:

Quote:
12’51’’ CNN: Why wasn’t there any video or transcript of those hours?

13’00’’ Mignini: Look, that’s, I was at the police station, and all the…let’s say…when I made investigations in my own office, I taped them. I taped them, we have an apparatus for that, and I transcribed them.

For example, there’s the interrogation of the English girls, Meredith’s friends, it was all taped. The interrogations of Amanda in prison were taped, and then transcribed, and we have the transcripts of… But in a police station, at the very moment of the investigation it isn’t done, not with respect to Amanda or anyone else.


Also because, I can tell you, today, even then, but today in particular, we have budget problems, budget problems that are not insignificant, which do not allow us to transcribe. Video is very important…I completely agree with you that videotaping is extremely important, we should be able to have a video recording of every statement [verbale di assunzione di informazioni] made Because what is said is very important, but it’s maybe even more important how it is said, the non-verbal language. Because from the non-verbal language you can [missing words].

15’14’’ Mignini: It isn’t only Amanda, it’s always like that. But I wanted to say that I agree with him that it’s fundamental, only there’s a problem, especially when the witnesses are so numerous, and in fact just recording, I mean recording the sound, isn’t enough according to me.

15’38’’ CNN: It [RECORDING] doesn’t cost much, he says.

15’40’’ Mignini: Well we have significant budget problems, that’s what it is.

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?..._cnn_should_2/
The above transcript is taken from a ‘GUILTER’S’ website!

Yup, it is what it is, obvious LIES by Mignini in explaining why the police had failed to film Amanda's interrogation (too expensive), and in Mignini's view, cheaper audio-tapes lack the visual clues of video, so in Mignini's view recording only audio is worse than no recordings at all.


They have Mignini on tape saying that –– you can't make this bull**** up!
CLEARLY, Mignini never claimed they didn't have at least an audio recording of Amanda's interrogation –– rather, he ONLY claimed they didn't have enough money to transcribe it.
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
04-17-2014 , 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Dine

Thanks for asking since I have credible citations for everything I post here –– watch the video on this page which shows Amanda standing up in open court to explain how she had been abused by the Italian police in the wee hours of Nov 6th 2007:

http://cnnpresents.blogs.cnn.com/category/amanda-knox/
I should have added that it was the 2nd video on that webpage where Amanda claimed in open court that she had been abused by her Italian interrogators (the 1st video just explains how she became to be called "Foxy-Knoxy" by her childhood soccer pals).
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
04-17-2014 , 01:54 PM
Ken Dine,

Didn't Knox withdraw her allegation of police brutality? In any case, are you saying that the failure by police to produce the tapes as counter proof is, in itself, absolute proof that the brutality allegation was true? If so, do you understand the implications of this interpretation of proof? Specifically as applied to this very case?
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
04-17-2014 , 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LostOstrich
Ken Dine,

Didn't Knox withdraw her allegation of police brutality?
No, but the police did sue Amanda for Calumny (slander), and the police also sued her parents for repeating the charge to the press.

Mignini sued just about everyone in sight who posted articles that had exposed him as a Royal-A$$, such as this one:

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/20...xed-up-nights/

Amanda also sued two Italian newspapers for publishing personal info about her sex life that had invaded her privacy, and SHE recently WON! (It needs to be approved by their Supreme Ct to be finalized).

As you may recall, when first put in jail, a guard had donned a white jacket and passed himself off as a doctor, and he told Amanda that her blood tests showed that she had HIV, and this phoney doctor told Amanda to list all the men she's ever had sex with.

Amanda turned over a list of 7 boys & men that she had bumped nasties with in her lifetime (2 Italians & 5 Americans), and the police turned that list over to the 2 newspapers, which were eventually sued after they published the list. Later, they told Amanda that her 1st HIV test was in error and that she didn't have HIV.

That's the type of crap that the Italians were doing to that poor gal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LostOstrich

In any case, are you saying that the failure by police to produce the tapes as counter proof is, in itself, absolute proof that the brutality allegation was true?
It's absolute proof in my mind, and it should sure as Hell at least raise serious suspicions in any sane person's mind.

Do you really feel that the suppression of those recordings is irrelevant and NOT suspicious?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LostOstrich
If so, do you understand the implications of this interpretation of proof? Specifically as applied to this very case?
Do you?
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
04-17-2014 , 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Dine
It's absolute proof in my mind, and it should sure as Hell at least raise serious suspicions in any sane person's mind.

Do you really feel that the suppression of those recordings is irrelevant and NOT suspicious?
I've mentioned my view on the lack of recordings before; I do indeed believe that it looks bad. I'd never be stupid enough to say that lack of evidence to the contrary is in itself absolute proof though! At least you're honest enough to distinguish between your own opinion and that of a sane individual though.

As for understanding the implications of such a statement, I'll give you a clue. Can you prove that the moon isn't made of green cheese?
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
04-18-2014 , 02:48 AM
Ken,

The police didn't "sue" Knox for calumny, they criminally charged her as it is a criminal case in Italy.

Even most INNOCENTERS can admit Knox acted immorally in this situation!!!
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
04-18-2014 , 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by too eazy
Ken,

The police didn't "sue" Knox for calumny, they criminally charged her as it is a criminal case in Italy.
{{{SIGH!!!}}}

I wasn't referring to the CRIMINAL portion of Knox's trial that related to Lumumba since the police obviously didn't initiate that legal action (that was prosecutor Mignini's doings).

Instead, I was referring to some of the many civil lawsuits that were spun off of the criminal trial, and everyone refers to those as "SUING":

Quote:
Amanda Knox will face slander trial over claim police beat her up while quizzing her over Meredith murder

By NICK PISA – 9 November 2010

Amanda Knox was yesterday accused of slandering Italian police officers during the trial which ended with her conviction for the murder of British student Meredith Kercher.

The American student claimed officers had hit her round the head during an interrogation after Miss Kercher’s body was found semi-naked with her throat cut in the girls’ Perugia flat.

Seven police officers who questioned her are now suing her for slander.
[ ]

At a court hearing yesterday, Knox claimed she was exercising her right to defend herself in court with the allegations of assault by police.

She said: ‘I didn’t mean to offend or slander anybody. I reiterate, I was only trying to defend myself. I was exercising a right.’

Privilege does not exist in Italian courts, so she can be sued for what was said during the trial
.

Recalling her interrogation, Knox told the murder trial in June last year:

‘One [police officer] shouted, “You don’t remember?” then a policewoman behind me hit me across the back of the head. I turned towards her and she did it again. They were only decent with me when I made my statement. They wanted a name, but I couldn’t give them one.’

Her lawyer yesterday argued that the slander case should be thrown out but judge Claudia Matteini said there was enough evidence to proceed.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2zGhCvZyi
Amanda's parents were likewise SUED (civilly) for slander:

Quote:
Police sue Foxy's parents for libel over abuse claims:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/143...r-abuse-claims
Quote:
Originally Posted by too eazy

Even most INNOCENTERS can admit Knox acted immorally in this situation!!!
CITATIONS, PUHLEEZE???

Admittedly, some people MAY not understand the circumstances of Amanda's ALLEGED accusation of Lumumba, so even if they do feel ("ADMIT") that Knox had "immorally" and falsely accused Lumumba during her ILLEGAL interrogation (as you claim), then those same people are probably not aware of the FACT that police had early on found negroid hairs under Kercher's nails.

The police clearly had suspected Amanda prior to Nov 5th (since they were already bugging her cell-phone by then), and the police also knew an African man was involved (due to the negroid hairs found at the crime-scene), and since Lumumba was the only African man that the police were aware of that Knox knew in Italy, consequently based upon finding negroid hairs at the crime-scene, by hook or crook the police were obviously determined to make Amanda implicate Lumumba (an African male) during her interrogation.

Since Amanda was obviously a SUSPECT before Nov 5th (since the police were already bugging her phone by the 5th), NOT taping a suspect's interrogation was a violation of Italian law!!!

Do you seriously contend that Amanda's Nov 5th & 6th all-night interrogation was NOT recorded?

Of course it was recorded - so, ask yourself this, WHY have the Italians suppressed those recordings?

The obvious answer: the interrogation recordings support Amanda's account!

Do you seriously feel that Mignini's lame budgetary claim is TRUE, that they didn't have enough money to make a recording of Amanda's interrogation?

Hey, Guido, which part of Italy do you live in?
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
04-18-2014 , 04:54 PM
Official Internet Document Regarding Amanda's Interrogation (for Ken):

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C699/

Ken: I found this official internet document on the case. It proves your posts on the subject are unfounded and misleading. READ FOR YOURSELF!!!!

Quote:
Saturday, November 30, 2013
Note For Strasbourg Court & State Department: Knox Herself Proves She Lies About Her Interrogation

Posted by James Raper

In our previous post Kermit nicely shows how, under the European Court of Human Rights’ own guidelines, Amanda Knox’s “appeal” won’t put her out of reach of the fair and painstaking Italians.


If any of the busy, hard-pressed ECHR investigators do choose to press beyond the ECHR guidelines, they will almost instantly establish that in her voluntary interview on 5 November 2007 Knox was treated with complete fairness.

Also that her false accusation of Patrick (which she never retracted) was entirely of her own doing.
And also that she is not only trying to throw sand into the wheels of Italian justice during an ongoing judicial process (a felony in Italy) but she is trying to welsh out of paying Patrick his damages award of $100,000 (a contempt of the Supreme Court) thus foolishly risking two more charges of aggravated calunnia.


This post derives from a post of mine last May. In another post, we showed that Dr Mignini was not present for the interrogation that night, and Knox maliciously invented an illegal interrogation at risk of a third aggravated calunnia charge.


In fact Dr Mignini met with Amanda Knox only briefly, later, to charge her and to warn she should say no more without a lawyer. He asked her no questions.


I will compare the various accounts of the interrogation to demonstrate that Amanda Knox is indeed lying to the ECHR, just as she did repeatedly in her book this year and also on US and European television.


  • There are two main bodies of truth about the interrogation: (1) all of those present at various times on that night and (2) Knox’s own testimony on the witness stand in mid 2009.
  • There are two main bodies of lies about the interrogation (1) The Sollecito book and (2) the Knox book, which by the way not only contradict one another but also contradict such other accounts as those of Saul Kassin and John Douglas.
The police had called her boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito in to the station for questioning and Knox had accompanied him because she did not want to be alone. They had already eaten at the house of a friend of Sollecito’s.
Knox’s interrogation was not tape recorded and in that sense we have no truly independent account of what transpired. The police, including the interpreter, gave evidence at her trial, but we do not yet have transcripts for that evidence other than that of the interpreter. There are accounts in books that have been written about the case but these tend to differ in the detail. The police and the interpreter maintain that she was treated well. Apart from the evidence of the interpreter all we have is what Knox says happened, and our sources for this are transcripts of her trial evidence and what she wrote in her book. I shall deal with the evidence of the interpreter towards the end of this article.


I am going to compare what she said at trial with what she wrote in her book but also there was a letter she wrote on the 9th and a recording of a meeting with her mother on the 10th November which are relevant.. What she wrote in her book is fairly extensive and contains much dialogue. She has a prodigious memory for detail now which was almost entirely lacking before. I am going to tell you to treat what she says in her book with extreme caution because she has already been found out for, well let us say, her creative writing if not outright distortion of facts. I shall paraphrase rather than quote most of it but a few direct quotes are necessary.


Knox arrived with Sollecito at the police station at about 10.30 pm (according to John Follain). The police started to question Sollecito at 10.40 pm (Follain).


In her book Knox describes being taken from the waiting area to a formal interview room in which she had already spent some time earlier. It is unclear when that formal questioning began. Probably getting on for about 11.30pm because she also refers to some questions being asked of her in the waiting room following which she did some stretches and splits. She then describes how she was questioned about the events over a period from about the time she and Sollecito left the cottage to about 9 pm on the 1st November.

Possibly there was a short break. She describes being exhausted and confused. The interpreter, Knox says, arrived at about 12.30 am. Until then she had been conversing with the police in Italian.
Almost immediately on the questioning resuming -
“Monica Napoleoni, who had been so abrupt with me about the poop and the mop at the villa, opened the door. “Raffaele says you left his apartment on Thursday night,” she said almost gleefully. “He says that you asked him to lie for you. He’s taken away your alibi.””


Knox describes how she was dumfounded and devastated by this news. She cannot believe that he would say that when they had been together all night. She feels all her reserves of energy draining away. Then -
“Where did you go? Who did you text?” Ficarra asked, sneering at me.
“I don’t remember texting anyone.”
They grabbed my cell p
hone up off the desk and scrolled quickly through its history.
“You need to stop lying. You texted Patrick. Who’s Patrick?”
“My boss at Le Chic.”

Stop right there.

How were the police able to name the recipient of the text? The text Patrick had sent her had already been deleted from Knox’s mobile phone by Knox herself and Knox hasn’t yet named Patrick. In fact she couldn’t remember texting anyone.

It is of course probable that the police already had a log of her calls and possibly had already traced and identified the owner of the receiving number for her text, though the last step would have been fast work.
In her trial testimony Knox did a lot of “the police suggested this and suggestd that” though it is never crystal clear whether she is accusing the police of having suggested his name. But she is doing it here in her book and of course the Knox groupies have always maintained that it was the police who suggested his name to her.
The following extract from her trial testimony should clear things up. GCM is Judge Giancarlo Massei.
GCM: In this message, was there the name of the person it was meant for?
AK: No, it was the message I wrote to my boss. The one that said “Va bene. Ci vediamo piu tardi. Buona serata.”
GCM: But it could have been a message to anyone. Could you see from the message to whom it was written?
AK: Actually, I don’t know if that information is in the telephone…………………..
GCM : But they didn’t literally say it was him!
AK : No. They didn’t say it was him, but they said “We know who it is, we know who it is. You were with him, you met him.”
GCM : Now what happened next? You, confronted with the message, gave the name of Patrick. What did you say?”
AK : Well, first I started to cry…....


And having implied that it was the police who suggested Patrick’s name to her, she adds….. that quote again -
“You need to stop lying. You texted Patrick. Who’s Patrick?”
“My boss at Le Chic.”
Here she is telling the Perugian cops straight out exactly to whom the text was sent. “My boss at Le Chic”.
But that does not quite gel with her trial testimony -
And they told me that I knew, and that I didn’t want to tell. And that I didn’t want to tell because I didn’t remember or because I was a stupid liar. Then they kept on about this message, that they were literally shoving in my face saying “Look what a stupid liar you are, you don’t even remember this!”

At first, I didn’t even remember writing that message. But there was this interpreter next to me who kept saying “Maybe you don’t remember, maybe you don’t remember, but try,” and other people were saying “Try, try, try to remember that you met someone, and I was there hearing “Remember, remember, remember…..

Doesn’t the above quote make it clear that the police were having considerable trouble getting Knox to tell them to whom her text message was sent? It would also explain their growing frustration with her.
But perhaps the above quote relates not to whom the text was sent but, that having been ascertained, whether Knox met up with that person later? Knox has a habit of conflating the two issues. However there is also the following quote from her trial testimony -
Well there were lots of people who were asking me questions, but the person who had started talking with me was a policewoman with long hair, chestnut brown hair, but I don’t know her. Then in the circle of people who were around me, certain people asked me questions, for example there was a man holding my telephone, and who was literally shoving the telephone into my face, shouting “Look at this telephone! Who is this? Who did you want to meet?”
Then there were others, for instance this woman who was leading, was the same person who at one point was standing behind me, because they kept moving, they were really surrounding me and on top of me. I was on a chair, then the interpreter was also sitting on a chair, and everyone else was standing around me, so I didn’t see who gave me the first blow because it was someone behind me, but then I turned around and saw that woman and she gave me another blow to the head.
The woman with the long hair, chestnut brown hair, Knox identifies in her book as Ficarra. Ficarra is the policewoman who started the questioning particularly, as Knox has confirmed, about the texted message. “Look at this telephone! Who is this? Who did you want to meet?” Again, surely this is to get Knox to identify the recipient of the text, not about whether she met up with him?


In the book though, it is all different.
In the book, the police having told her that the text is to someone called Patrick, Knox is a model of co-operation as, having already told them that he is her boss at Le Chic, she then gives a description of him and answers their questions as to whether he knew Meredith, whether he liked her etc. No reluctance to co-operate, no memory difficulties here.
Notwithstanding this, her book says the questions and insinuations keep raining down on her. The police insist that she had left Sollecito’s to meet up with - and again the police name him - Patrick.
“Who did you meet up with? Who are you protecting? Why are you lying? Who’s this person? Who’s Patrick?”
Remember again, according to her trial testimony the police did not mention Patrick’s name and Knox still hasn’t mentioned his name. But wait, she does in the next line -
“I said “Patrick is my boss.””
So now, at any rate, the police have a positive ID from Knox regarding the text message and something to work with. Patrick - boss - Le Chic.
Knox then refers to the differing interpretations as to what “See you later” meant and denies that she had ever met up with Patrick that evening. She recalls the interpreter suggesting that she was traumatized and suffering from amnesia.
The police continue to try to draw an admission from Knox that she had met up with Patrick that evening - which again she repeatedly denies. And why shouldn’t she? After all, she denies that she’s suffering from amnesia, or that there is a problem with her memory. The only problem is that Sollecito had said she had gone out but that does not mean she had met with Patrick.
Knox then writes, oddly, as it is completely out of sequence considering the above -
“They pushed my cell phone, with the message to Patrick, in my face and screamed,
“You’re lying. You sent a message to Patrick. Who’s Patrick?”
That’s when Ficarra slapped me on my head.”
A couple of blows (more like cuffs) to the head (denied by the police) is mentioned in her trial testimony but more likely, if this incident ever happened, it would have been earlier when she was struggling to remember the text and to whom it had been sent. Indeed that’s clear from the context of the above quotes.
And this, from her trial testimony -
Remember, remember, remember, and then there was this person behind me who—it’s not that she actually really physically hurt me, but she frightened me.”
In the CNN TV interview with Chris Cuomo, Knox was asked if there was anything she regretted.
Knox replied that she regretted the way this interrogation had gone, that she wished she had been aware of her rights and had stood up to the police questioning better.
Well actually, according to the account in her book, she appears to have stood up to the police questioning with a marked degree of resilience and self- certainty, and with no amnesia. There is little of her trademark “being confused”.
So why the sudden collapse? And it was a sudden collapse.
Given the trial and book accounts Knox would have us think that she was frightened, that it was due to exhaustion and the persistent and bullying tone of the questioning, mixed with threats that she would spend time in prison for failing to co-operate. She also states that -
(a) she was having a bad period and was not being allowed to attend to this, and
(b) the police told her that they had “hard evidence” that she was involved in the murder.
Knox has given us a number of accounts as to what was actually happening when this occurred.
In a letter she wrote on the 9th November she says that suddenly all the police officers left the room but one, who told her she was in serious trouble and that she should name the murderer. At this point Knox says that she asked to see the texted message again and then an image of Patrick came to mind. All she could think about was Patrick and so she named him (as the murderer).
During a recorded meeting with her mother in Capanne Prison on the 10th November she relates essentially the same story.
In her book there is sort of the same story but significantly without mention of the other officers having left the room nor mention of her having asked to see the texted message again.
If the first two accounts are correct then at least the sense of oppression from the room being crowded and questions being fired at her had lifted.
Then this is from her book -
In that instant, I snapped. I truly thought I remembered having met somebody. I didn’t understand what was happening to me. I didn’t understand that I was about to implicate the wrong person. I didn’t understand what was at stake. I didn’t think I was making it up. My mind put together incoherent images. The image that came to me was Patrick’s face. I gasped. I said his name. “Patrick—it’s Patrick.
It’s her account, of course, but this “Patrick - It’s Patrick” makes no sense at this stage of it unless it’s an admission not just that she had met up with Patrick but that he was at the cottage and involved in Meredith’s death.
And this is from her trial testimony -
GCM : Now what happened next? You, confronted with the message, gave the name of Patrick. What did you say?
AK : Well, first I started to cry. And all the policemen, together, started saying to me, you have to tell us why, what happened? They wanted all these details that I couldn’t tell them, because in the end, what happened was this: when I said the name of Patrick I suddenly started imagining a kind of scene, but always using this idea: images that didn’t agree, that maybe could give some kind of explanation of the situation.
There is a clear difference between these two quotes.
The one from her book suggests that she was trying hard but that the police had virtually brought her to the verge of a mental breakdown.
Her trial testimony says something else; that a scene and an idea was forming in her mind brought on by her naming of Patrick.
In her book she states that a statement, typed up in Italian, was shoved under her nose and she was told to sign it. The statement was timed at 1.45 am. The statement was not long but would probably have taken about twenty minutes to prepare and type.
The statement according to Knox -
... I met Patrick immediately at the basketball court in Piazza Grimana and we went to the house together. I do not remember if Meredith was there or came shortly afterward. I have a hard time remembering those moments but Patrick had sex with Meredith, with whom he was infatuated, but I cannot remember clearly whether he threatened Meredith first. I remember confusedly that he killed her.
The fact that the statement was in Italian is not important. Knox could read Italian perfectly well. However she does insinuate in the book that the details in the statement were suggested to her and that she didn’t bother to read the statement before signing.
Apart from what has been mentioned above, there are some other points and inferences to be drawn from the above analysis.
  • 1. Knox’s account destroys one of Sollecito’s main tenets in his book Honour Bound. Sollecito maintains that he did nothing to damage Knox’s alibi until he signed a statement, forced on him at 3:30 am and containing the damaging admission that Knox had gone out. But Knox makes it clear that she had heard from the Head of the Murder Squad that he had made that damaging admission, at or shortly after 12.30 am. Or is Knox is accusing Napoleoni of a bare-faced lie?

    2. It is valid to ask why Knox would not want to remember to whom the text had been sent. Who can see into her mind? Perhaps Knox realized that discussion of it would confirm that if she had indeed gone out then it was not to Le Chic, where she was not required. However even if she thought that could put her in the frame it’s not what an innocent person would be too worried about. Perhaps she did just have difficulty remembering?

    3. If there was no fuss and she did remember and tell the police that the text was to Patrick, and the questioning then moved on to whether she met up with Patrick later that evening, what was the problem with that? She knew the fact that she hadn’t met up with him could be verified by Patrick. She could have said that and stuck to it. The next move for the police would have been to question Patrick. They would not have had grounds to arrest him.

    4. Knox stated in her memorial, and re-iterates it in her book, that during her interrogation the police told her that they had hard evidence that she was involved in Meredith’s murder. She does not expand on what this evidence is, perhaps because the police did not actually tell her. However, wasn’t she the least bit curious, particularly if she was innocent? What was she thinking it might be?

    5. I can sympathise with any interviewee suffering a bad period, if that’s true. However the really testy period of the interview/interrogation starts with the arrival of the interpreter, notification of Sollecito’s withdrawal of her alibi and the questioning with regard to the text to Patrick, all occurring at around 12.30 am. There has to be some critical point when she concedes, whether to the police or in her own mind, that she’d met “Patrick”, after which there was the questioning as to what had happened next. Say that additional questioning took 20 minutes. Then there would be a break whilst the statement is prepared and typed up. So the difficult period for Knox, from about 12.30 am to that critical point, looks more like about 35 to, at the outside, 50 minutes.

    6. Even if, for that period, it is true that she was subjected to repeated and bullying questions, and threats, then she held up remarkably well as I have noted from her own account. It does not explain any form of mental breakdown, let alone implicating Patrick in murder. In particular, if Knox’s letter of the 9th and the recording of her meeting with her mother on the 10th are to believed, that alleged barrage of questions had stopped when she implicated Patrick. An explanation, for what it’s worth, might be that she had simply ceased to care any longer despite the consequences. But why?

    7. A better and more credible explanation is that an idea had indeed formed suddenly in her mind. She would use the revelation about the text to Patrick and the consequent police line of questioning to bring the questioning to an end and divert suspicion from her true involvement in the murder of Meredith Kercher. She envisaged that she would be seen by the police as a helpless witness/victim, not a suspect in a murder investigation. As indeed was the case initially. She expected, I am sure, to be released, so that she could get Sollecito’s story straight once again. If that had happened there would of course remain the problem of her having involved Patrick, but I dare say she thought that she could simply smooth that over - that it would not be a big deal once he had confirmed that there had been no meeting and that he had not been at the cottage, as the evidence was bound to confirm.
At the beginning I said that we also have a transcript now of the evidence of the interpreter, Anna Donnino. I will summarise the main points from her evidence but it will be apparent immediately that she contradicts much of what Knox and her supporters claim to have happened.
Donnino told the court that she had 22 years experience working as a translator for the police in Perugia. She was at home when she received a call from the police that her services were required and she arrived at the police station at just before 12.30 am, just as Knox said. She found Knox with Inspector Ficarra. There was also another police officer there whose first name was Ivano. At some stage Ficarra left the room and then returned and there was also another officer by the name of Zugarina who came in. Donnino remained with Knox at all times
The following points emerge from her testimony :-
  • 1. Three police officers do not amount to the “lots of people” referred to in Knox’s trial testimony, let alone the dozens and the “tag teams” of which her supporters speak.

    2. She makes no mention of Napoleoni and denied that anyone had entered the room to state that Sollecito had broken Knox’s alibi. (This is not to exclude that this may have happened before Donnino arrived)

    3. She states that Knox was perfectly calm but there came a point when Knox was being asked how come she had not gone to work that she was shown her own text message (to Patrick). Knox had an emotional shock, put her hands to her ears and started rolling her head and saying “It’s him! It’s him! It’s him!”

    4. She denied that Knox had been maltreated or that she had been hit at all or called a liar.

    5. She stated that the officer called Ivano had been particularly comforting to Knox, holding her hand occasionally.

    6. She stated that prior to the 1.45 am statement being presented to Knox she was asked if she wanted a lawyer but Knox said no.

    7. She stated that she had read the statement over to Knox in english and Knox herself had checked the italian original having asked for clarification of specific wording.

    7. She confirmed that that she had told Knox about an accident which she’d had (a leg fracture) and that she had suffered amnesia about the accident itself. She had thought Knox was suffering something similar. She had also spoken to Knox about her own daughters because she thought it was necessary to establish a rapport and trust between the two of them.
The account in Knox’s book is in some ways quite compelling but only if it is not compared against her trial testimony, let alone the Interpreter’s testimony: that is, up to the point when she implicates Patrick in murder. At that point no amount of whitewash works. The Italian Supreme Court also thought so, upholding Knox’s calunnia conviction, with the addition of aggravating circumstances.
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
04-18-2014 , 05:01 PM
For Ken: Official Internet Translation of Mignini Interview: Read this and you will be hard pressed to disagree with the conviction!!!

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C741/

Quote:
Many readers asked for a translation of what Mr Mignini said in that interview, and True North, who has pretty good Italian but is not a professional translator, requested some help from the translation team. The sound of the video is not always crystal clear but this appears to accurately reflect what was said.
Male interviewer: In the biological evidence, is there any one item which is the one which you consider, especially in terms of the trial, to have had the most value?
Giuliano Mignini: I think that, in terms of the trial, the most important were the knife, the bra hook and also the biological traces in the bathroom. From the point of view of the trial, the knife certainly links the two defendants and the victim. Therefore it was (interrupted).
Andrea Vogt: There was low copy number, and that’s not normal, is it, to use DNA when there’s low copy number?
Giuliano Mignini: However, I hold that those traces were nonetheless indisputable traces. That is, there was not an absolute huge amount, in terms that are perhaps more understandable [ndt: to an Italian speaker, “low copy number” is not necessaryily understandable, because it is an English term]. The trace might be really high, with a high quantity, or it may be very low, but however the trace may be, it was never reasonably explained in any other way. That knife was never touched by the victim. She was never (inaudible: possibly “at Raffaele’s”] during the period that the two young folk, the two defendants, knew each other. It was a very short period: we think the relationship was (inaudible) or a week.
Male interviewer: Certainly. However, (inaudible) limited, either a contamination in the place of the crime or a contamination in the laboratory? This is not meant as a criticism of the work, however it is a danger that we technicians have which we must confront.
Giuliano Mignini: Yes. Well, that point about the knife comes from the specific questions of Professor Finsi himself, and of the Superintendant (Parebiochi?), and it was clearly shown that that knife was collected with absolute… that is, there was no possibility of exposure to contact [with the victim?]. Because it was found in Raffaele’s house and it was take with all precautions. This was shown in (inaudible). I was keen to show that (inaudible) that knife.
Andrea Vogt: Also the hook was very controversial because you found it 46 days after.
Giuliano Mignini: Yes, yes. I know. I understand. This, alas, can happen when there are places that are so full of objects, full of… When one is doing an analysis of this type, it can happen that (inaudible) is moved. However, it remained within that room. And (Andrea Vogt interrupts). And then, if there is contamination, that means that Sollecito’s DNA was somewhere within that room. We’re still there (i.e. at the same conclusion). I think that all the evidence was limited [ndt: to the one place?], and the first findings were of an investigative nature. In particular, that includes the numerous contradictions made by Knox. Which were then repeated during the investigation, during the interrogation in jail, and in my opinion also during the questioning and counter-questioning in court.
Andrea Vogt: I want to talk a bit about the motive.
Giuliano Mignini: As a first impression of the [inaudible: crime?] it was clearly, it appeared clearly to be a crime of a sexual nature. It was extremely clear. A young woman, killed in that way, and almost completely stripped/naked.
Male interviewer: Excuse me, but on the contrary, at times I have heard attributed (inaudible) a different reason, a fight which ended badly, and then instead a transformation of the crime to put forward the idea that it was a sexual murder. Also because, in fact, the position of Rudy, who was however found guilty, also from the beginning changed a bit. There’s his responsibility.
Giuliano Mignini: Also Rudy gave indications which then changed a bit. Rudi too, for example, said that there was an appointment with Meredith. Then in later interrogations he said that Meredith had asked for him to be there, and (Male interviewer interrupts: The reconstruction [by Nabil?]: what could have happened?). Yes, according to me, there was a situation, a progressive situation of disagreement between the two girls. That seems undeniable to me.


As you can see - according to this article AK's guilt is "undeniable."
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
04-18-2014 , 07:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oski
Official Internet Document Regarding Amanda's Interrogation (for Ken):

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C699/

Ken: I found this official internet document on the case. It proves your posts on the subject are unfounded and misleading. READ FOR YOURSELF!!!!
Please define an "official internet document?"

You post nonsense from Peter Quennell, who is a certifiable 'GUILTER" loon, as dispositive proof ...of, what? That Amanda's interrogation shouldn't have been recorded?

As your own NONSENSE website states (in part), your CITED loons claim that police testimony at trial was just as good as a recording:

Quote:
Knox’s interrogation was not tape recorded and in that sense we have no truly independent account of what transpired.

The police, including the interpreter, gave evidence at her trial, but we do not yet have transcripts for that evidence other than that of the interpreter.


There are accounts in books that have been written about the case but these tend to differ in the detail. The police and the interpreter maintain that she was treated well. Apart from the evidence of the interpreter all we have is what Knox says happened, and our sources for this are transcripts of her trial evidence and what she wrote in her book.
You seriously contend that police testimony is as good as a recording of that night's police interrogations?

Knox's police interrogation SHOULD HAVE BEEN RECORDED!!!!

So, Mr. Rocket-scientist, where are those INTERROGATION recordings?

Your PROOF appears to be that, if one cop LIES, and then all the rest swear to it, that such police testimony is good enough as a recording?

Why did Knox's so-called "interpreter" that night tell Knox that she probably had blocked the events of that night due to the shock of hearing Kercher being murdered?

Do you deny that the stupid "interpreter" admitted telling Knox that night that the same thing had happened to her after she broke her legs?

Why did the stupid "interpreter" tell Knox her own "repressed-memory" story at all if she wasn't trying to break Amanda down?

I already knew you were a shameless cherry-picker, but clearly you are now sinking to lower levels by posting utter crap from Peter Quennell's website and calling it gospel.
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
04-18-2014 , 10:10 PM
Ken: What part of "official internet document" are you having trouble with? These articles I posted are genuine and exclusive to the internet.

You and the other shills claim you do not observe the Court's jurisdiction in this matter, so I am providing certified, non-trial documents for discussion.

The article PROVES that the police treated AK well and that she is lying about it.

As far as this coming from Peter Quennell's website - yes, it is certified and correct. As you may know, Mr. Quennell started the website after he read about the case and was forced to accept that Knox was guilty. Prior to hearing about the murder of Kercher, Quennell and his friends did not believe Knox was a killer. So, he is totally UNBIASED!

In fact, given the odds of about 55,000 - 1 that Knox would be one of the killers among all the suspects in Perugia that night, Quennell was very, VERY skeptical that she was guilty.

However, once he read up on the case and discussed it on the internet, he decided she must be guilty. It so happens the Court agrees with him and his friends (which is completely coincidental because they conducted their own, independent investigation, analysis and study).
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
04-18-2014 , 10:12 PM
Ken: This is an official internet document PROVING that the crime scene was cleaned after the murder.

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C441/

As you can see - it has been concluded and declared that the crime scene was cleaned by Amanda Knox and Raf.


Quote:
The Crime-Scene Clean-Up: How Rudy Guede’s Diary Provides Even More Proof That It Happened

Posted by pat az





This post is crossposted from my own place. Here is one of my previous crime scene analyses on TJMK.

Rudy Guede was ultimately declared convicted by the Supreme Court in 2010 of participating in the 2007 murder of Meredith Kercher.

The prosecution claims the two other participants are Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito. Knox and Sollecito are currently appealing their conviction of the same crime.

The case against the three of them involves a suspected clean up of the hallway in the apartment after the crime. Meredith’s blood was found in the bathroom, and half a footprint in her blood was found on the bathroom mat. However, there was no visible blood between Meredith’s bedroom and the bathroom.

The only visible blood in the hallway were faint partial shoe prints that led directly out the front door of the apartment.

After the murder was discovered, the media reported almost daily on developments in the case. The day of the murder, the press reported on the blood found in the bathroom and the bedroom.

But until police used luminol at the apartment on December 18th, the media didn’t report on any significant blood found in the hallway. Between November 2nd and December 18th, only one person stated that significant amounts of blood had been in the hallway.

Rudy Guede.

Rudy Guede actually wrote about it in his diary between Nov 20th and Dec 6th, after being captured in Germany.






The police arrived at the apartment on November 2nd. According to media reports, the blood they spotted immediately was only in the bathroom and Meredith’s bedroom. When the scene was more closely examined, after the discovery of the body, police found visible blood patterns on the floor left by Guede’s left shoe as he left the apartment.

None of the people who arrived in the apartment on the afternoon of November 2nd reported seeing them; these footprints are not in any of the stories of the events of Nov 2nd told by Amanda Knox nor Raffaele Sollecito. So, while these prints were visible, they were not substantially obvious.

On December 18th 2007 investigators applied Luminol in the hallway and other bedrooms. This forensic chemical is used to detect blood which has been cleaned away. The Luminol revealed several footprints in the hallway between the bedrooms of Knox and Meredith. Example below. Some of these footprints were leading towards Meredith’s door.


x’s They also discovered prints in Filomena’s room which contained Meredith’s DNA and Amanda Knox’s DNA. They also revealed a footprint in Amanda Knox’s bedroom. (The defense unsuccessfully contested the investigator’s conclusions that these prints were made with blood).

On November 19 2007, an international arrest warrant was issued for Rudy Guede. He was arrested in Germany on November 20th. Guede remained in Germany until his extradition on December 3rd.

During his stay in jail in Germany, Guede wrote a long statement that was published and translated. Guede’s writings are similar to to Knox’s jail writings in many ways - they both try to write out their own detailed version of events, while pointing blame elsewhere.

But Guede’s comments may in fact be confirmation of a clean-up after the murder of Meredith Kercher (emphasis added):
I am asking myself how is it possible that Amanda could have slept in all that mess, and took a shower with all that blood in the bathroom and corridor? (Guede, Germany Diary, P21)


The police did not find evidence of any other blood until December 18th, AFTER Guede returned from Germany. As indicated above, the luminol revealed multiple footprints in the hallway, in Knox’s bedroom, and in Filomena’s bedroom. The image below shows these results in blue. Guede’s partial footprints are shown in red. bedroom. (The defense unsuccessfully contested the investigator’s conclusions that these prints were made with blood).

The police did not find evidence of any other blood until December 18th, AFTER Guede returned from Germany. As indicated above, the luminol revealed multiple footprints in the hallway, in Knox’s bedroom, and in Filomena’s bedroom. The image below shows these results in blue. Guede’s partial footprints are shown in red.






The conclusion is inescapable: Guede knew there would be significant evidence of blood in the hallway, before the police themselves found that evidence.

How did Guede know there would be more blood found in the hallway, before the police found that evidence on December 18th? And why wasn’t that blood there on the morning of November 2nd?

The courts believe the blood in the hallway was cleaned after the murder of Meredith Kercher. And the Micheli and Massei courts believed only one person had the motivation to hide this evidence: Amanda Knox.

Here is a summary of Judge Micheli’s October 2008 indictment finding.
In Judge Massei’s December 2009 trial finding for the original conviction of Knox and Sollecito, he also writes about the clean-up that the judges believed to have happened:
Further confirmation is constituted by the fact that, after Meredith’s murder, it is clear that some traces were definitely eliminated, a cleaning activity was certainly carried out. In fact, the bare foot which, stained with blood, left its footprint on the sky-blue mat in the bathroom, could only have reached that mat by taking steps which should have left other footprints on the floor, also marked out in blood just like (in fact, most likely, with even more [blood], since they were created before the footprint printed on the mat) the one found on the mat itself. Of such other very visible footprints of a bloody bare foot, on the contrary, there is no trace. (Massei, Dec 09; PMF translation)

In defense of Guede, Knox, and Sollecito, some might try to claim that Guede heard about blood in the hallway in the news. Rudy Guede was arrested 18 days following the murder of Meredith Kercher. During that time he had access to read the news and watch reports.

I have searched for articles in the period between November 2nd and December 18 which mention blood. All of the articles I have found so far discuss blood in the bedroom or the bathroom. One or two discuss footprints leading to the front door.

None of them discuss blood in the hallway that would justify a statement from Guede of “tutto quel sangue nel bagno e sul corridoghe” (all that blood in the bathroom and in the corridor)

Guede himself said he went between the bedroom and the bathroom, so may have tracked blood into the bathroom and therefore known blood would be found in the hallway.

Even that knowledge however confirms a clean-up, as there was not a trail of blood between the bathroom and Meredith’s room that justifies the footprint on the bathmat and blood found in the bathroom.
I have my own questions as a result of Guede’s knowledge of blood in the hallway:

Could the attack have started in the hallway? Could the first blood shed have been on the hallway tiles?
The prosecution and courts argue that Amanda Knox had a role in the attack and murder. Knox and her supporters are very adamant that there is no trace of Knox in Meredith’s bedroom. While the courts argue otherwise, could Knox’s role have been limited to the hallway?
Sadly, we may never know the full truth of what happened on the evening of November 1st, 2007.
My timeline of media reports on blood
  • Nov 2nd: Meredith Kercher found. Blood found in bathroom.
  • Nov 5th: Police analyzing traces of blood from apartment below.
  • Nov 5th: A “trail of blood” is on the inside handle of the door to the apartment.
  • Nov 7th: reports of Amanda Knox’s statements, includes finding blood in the bathroom.
  • Nov 14th: Police use of Luminol at Sollectio’s house. First reports on the knife seized by police from Sollecito’s house.
  • Nov 19th: Analysis of blood in bedroom (pillow, bra, etc).
  • Nov 22nd: Guede’s prints in blood.
  • Nov 27th: Amanda Knox’s blood on bathroom tap.
  • Nov 28th: Blood in bathroom.
  • Dec 5th: Reports of Guede’s letter to father: “there was so much blood”.
My timeline of main events involving Guede
  • Nov 2nd, 2am – 4:30 am: Guede seen by witnesses at Domus nightclub.
  • Nov 3: Guede leaves Perugia for Germany
  • Nov 11: Guede’s cell phone tracked in Milan (Corriere)
  • Nov 12: Newspaper reports a 4th suspect.
  • Nov 19: Guede identified as suspect in newspapers
  • Nov 19: Guede skype conversation with friend.
  • Nov 20: Patrick released from prison.
  • Nov 20: Guede arrested while trying to return to italy on train in Germany.
  • Nov 21: Guede interrogated by German police; Guede admits to being at apartment, blames an italian man for murder.
  • Nov 20-Dec 5: Guede writes diary in German prison.
  • Dec 3: Germany grants Guede’s extradition back to Italy.
  • Dec 6: Guede returns to Perugia.
  • Dec 7: Guede interrogated by Magistrate.
  • Dec 14: Guede ordered to remain in prison.
  • Dec 17: Knox is questioned by Mignini.
  • Dec 18: Police use luminol in apartment and find footprints in hallway and in Filomena’s bedroom.
Conclusive.

Last edited by Oski; 04-18-2014 at 10:18 PM.
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
04-18-2014 , 10:23 PM
Ken: Here is an interesting, official internet document that asks Raf questions about his claim that Guede did the killing alone.

Honestly, I don't know if Raf replied to this, or not. I will look into it to see if he actually answered. If he did, I will post it.

Anyhow, these are some very good questions that I think Raf needs to answer.

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C720/

Quote:
Questions For Sollecito: Why Claim Guede Did It Alone When Vast Evidence Contradicts That?

Problems of your “Guede did it alone” mantra

You seem to be the only one in the known universe still plaintively arguing that Guede alone did it and his traces are all over Meredith’s room.

Actually they aren’t. There are surprisingly few traces in there, and outside Meredith’s door there is only evidence of his prior use of the south bathroom and his shoeprints headed straight for the front door.

Evidence against you is far, far stronger. Explain this if you can about your bloody footprint. Explain this if you can about the evidence of cleanup. Explain this if you can about your contradictory alibis.

Explain if you can why YOUR own witness Luciano Aviello was such a disaster for your side in court last week. Explain your cell phone actions (or non-actions) and the timing and content of your phone calls, and your computer actions (or non actions). Explain why in your book you claim you sent several emails throughout the night; but there zero records of such emails with your email provider.

If your main mantra remains “Guede did it” that will cook you for sure. You could be facing 35 years, with the “mitigating factors” canceled and the new penalties you will incur for your arrogant, dishonest book. .

There are three compelling reasons above all why the Massei court and the Supreme Court will remain totally unbending on the point that Guede did NOT attack Meredith alone, and that it had to be a pack attack on Meredith.

One is the full day of closed court testimony at trial by crime-scene experts from Rome who accounted for every point of evidence in Meredith’s room with a depiction of a 15 minute pack attack involving three people. Your own defense was left essentially speechless.

One is the prosecution’s video shown in closed court during Summations of the recreation of the attack on Meredith, which accounted for every point of evidence with a 15 minute pack attack involving three people. Your own defense was left essentially speechless.

The Massei jury saw both of these presentations (and was visibly moved; several started crying) but the Hellmann jury saw neither.

The third compelling reason is that the entry of an attacker via Filomena’s room is so absolutely unbelievable. Your own defense always knew this, and barely tried to make that sale (hence the witnesses Alessi and Aviello).

There are seven other routes for a burglar to enter the house, all of them faster and quieter and five of them darker. You can see five in these images below: two via the east windows, three up onto the balcony and into the house via the louvre door or the kitchen window.

All seven routes would be obvious to any burglar, long before he walked all the way around the base of the house to beneath Filomena’s window (which he did several times in your scenario).

On 6 November you have promised to appear in the appeal court in Florence.

You are apparently too nervous to face cross-examination under oath, but you have said you intend to try to explain things. Very well. Please answer for the waiting world these 30-plus questions


Answer all these to prove Guede acted alone

1) Rudy Guede had been to the apartment at least twice already on prior occasions and knew the boys who lived in the lower story. Why did Guede choose to NOT break-in to the lower story where he knew (or could ascertain) that all four boys were away on holiday, and therefore could break-in and rummage with some certainty of not getting caught?

2) Why did Guede choose to break-in to the upper story of the villa when he surely knew Knox and Kercher would be staying at the villa for the holidays and could have returned at any time to “catch him in-the-act”?

3) Why did Guede not check the cottage to make sure no one was there before attempting the break-in? Surely he would have verified that no one was present by circling the cottage and checking if any lights were on in the windows.

4) If Guede did circle the cottage to make sure no one was there before attempting the break-in, why would he then choose the most visible and more difficult path of entry through a second story window, as opposed to the more hidden and easier path of break-in at the back of the villa, which he would have noticed while circling the villa?

5) Why would Guede choose to break-in through a second story window that was highly exposed to the headlights of passing cars on the street as well as exposed to night lighting from the carpark?

6) Ms. Romanelli testified that she had nearly closed the exterior shutters. Assuming her memory is correct, there is no way a burglar could easily verify if the windows were latched and if the inner scuri were latched to the window panes, which would make access to the window latch impractical unless one was armed with a core drill or an ax. Why would Guede, who was certainly familiar with such windows, choose to attempt the break-in through a window that he could not easily verify would allow him quick access?

7) Assuming the shutters were closed, Guede would have to climb up the wall and open the shutters before smashing the window with the rock. The night of the murder, the grass was wet from rain the previous day. Why was there no evidence of disturbed grass or mud on the walls?

8) Guede had Nike sneakers, not rock climbing shoes. How did he manage the climb up the wall with that type of footwear?

9) If the shutters were closed, or somewhat closed, how did Guede manage to lift himself up to the sill with only an inch of sill available to grab onto?

10) Assuming Guede opened the shutters, how did Guede verify if the inner scuri where not latched to the window panes, which would prevent access to the window latch? There was no light inside Ms. Romanelli’s room to reveal that the scuri were ajar.

11) Assuming Guede managed to check that the inner scuro behind the right-hand window was not latched, how did he manage to break the glass with a 9 lb rock with one hand while hanging on to the sill with the other?

12) Assuming Guede managed check that the right-hand inner scuro was not latched, how did he break the glass with the rock without having glass shards fly into his face?

13) If Guede climbed down to the lob the 9 lb rock at the window from 3 meters below, how would he do so to avoid glass shards raining down on him?

14) If Guede climbed down to the lob the rock at the window from below, why would he choose a 9 lb 20 cm wide rock to lob up to a window 3 meters above him, with little chance of striking the window in the correct fashion?

15) If Guede climbed down again and climbed back up to the carpark (up a steep slope with slippery wet grass and weeds) to lob the 9 lb 20 cm wide rock from the car park, why is there no evidence of this second climb down on the walls?

16) Why did Guede choose a 9 lb 20 cm wide rock to throw from the car park, given that a large, heavy rock would be difficult to lob with any precision? Especially considering that the width of the glass in the window pane is only 28 cm wide, surely anyone, experienced or not, would have chosen a smaller, lighter rock to throw with greater precision.

17) If Guede lobbed a 9 lb 20 cm rock from the car park, such a lob would require some velocity and therefore force. Guede would have been roughly 11-12 feet away from the window, in order for the lob to clear the wood railing at the carpark. If the rock was thrown with some velocity, why is the upper 1/2 of the glass in the window pane intact, without any fracture cracks at all?

18) If Guede lobbed a 9 lb 20 cm rock from the car park, such a lob would require some velocity and therefore force. Why is there so little damage to the scuro the rock hit, so little damage to the terrazzo flooring impacted by the rock, and so little damage to the rock itself, which surely would have fractured more on impact with a hard terrazzo floor?

19) Why was there no evidence of glass shards found in the grass below the window?

20) If Guede climbed the wall to open the shutters, climbed down and up to the car park to throw the rock, then climbed back down and up again to the window, how does he manage to hoist himself onto the sill without cutting himself on the glass that was found on the sill?

21) If Guede climbed the wall to open the shutters, hoisted himself onto the sill, tapped the glass with a 9 lb rock to lightly break the glass in a manner more consistent with how the window was broken, why did he throw the rock into the room, rather than let it fall into the grass below?

22) Why was no dirt, grass, muddy shoeprints or similar trace evidence found on the window sill?

23) Why was no dirt, grass, muddy shoeprints or similar trace evidence found in Romanelli’s room?

24) If Guede climbed the wall to open the shutters, climbed down and up to the car park to throw the rock, then climbed back down and up again to the window again, hoisted himself onto the sill without cutting himself on the glass that was found on the sill, unlatched the window and stepped inside Filomena’s room, how did he manage to get glass on top of Romanelli’s clothing that was found under the window sill?

25) Why would Guede, who would have spent a good 10 minutes trying to break and enter with the climbing up and down from the carpark, waste valuable time throwing clothes from the closet? Why not simply open the closet doors and rifle through the clothes without creating more of mess?

26) Why did he disregard Romanelli’s laptop, which was in plain view?

27) Why did Guede check the closet before checking the drawers of the nightstand, where surely more valuable objects like jewelry would be found?

28) Why were none of the other rooms disturbed during the break-in?

29) Assuming Ms. Kercher arrived to the cottage after Guede’s break-in, presumably when Guede was in the bathroom, why did she not notice the break-in, call the police and run out of the cottage?

30) Assuming Guede was in the bathroom when Ms. Kercher returned, why go to the extent of attacking Ms. Kercher in her room rather than try to sneak out the front door, or through the window he had just broken, to avoid if not identification, at least more serious criminal charges?

31) Assuming Ms. Kercher was at the cottage while Guede broke-in, why did she not call the police the moment she heard the rock crash through the glass, loudly thud to the terrazzo floor and investigate what was happening in Romanelli’s room while Guede was climbing back down from the car park and climbing back up to the window?

32) Assuming Ms. Kercher was at the cottage while Guede broke-in, Guede could have been on the sill already because he had tapped the glass with the 9 lb rock to break it. Therefore perhaps Guede was already partially inside Romanelli’s room when he was discovered by Ms. Kercher. In this case Guede follows Ms. Kercher to her room in an attempt to dissuade her from calling the police and the assault ensues. But then, if this scenario is correct, when does Guede have time to rifle through Romanelli’s clothing and effects?

33) Why is there a luminol revealed footprint in Romanelli’s room that has mixed traces of Knox’s and Kercher’s DNA ?

34) Why does this footprint not match Guede’s foot size?

35) If multiple attackers were required to restain Ms. Kercher, holding her limbs while brandishing two knives and committing sexual violence, then who else was with Guede and why no traces of this 4th (or more) person(s) were found, either in shoeprints, footprints, fingerprints, DNA or otherwise?

36) If Guede and others were involved in the assault, why has Guede not acknolwedged them, and instead consistently hinted that, and finally admitting that Sollecito and Knox were with him during the assault?

37) If Guede and others were involved in the assault, why do the other shoeprints, footprints, DNA traces and fingerprints all point to Knox and Sollecito being present during the assault, in one way or another?


[Five easier ways in: 3 via balcony (note two drainpipes, window grid below), 2 via side windows]









Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
04-18-2014 , 10:30 PM
Ken: Where in the Massei Report is anything mentioned about a "negroid hair" being found under one of Meredith's fingernails.

- Thanks.
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
04-19-2014 , 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oski
Ken: Where in the Massei Report is anything mentioned about a "negroid hair" being found under one of Meredith's fingernails.

- Thanks.
This could be a trick question where, on the surface, it looks like you are disputing the finding of a negroid hair at the crime scene. However, upon second thought, it could instead be a rehashing of the stance that things found outside of the triers' report are irrelevant, something that would also be easy to fall back on, particularly if it was your intention to advance the former point, where it was later found to be false.
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
04-19-2014 , 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14cobster
This could be a trick question where, on the surface, it looks like you are disputing the finding of a negroid hair at the crime scene. However, upon second thought, it could instead be a rehashing of the stance that things found outside of the triers' report are irrelevant, something that would also be easy to fall back on, particularly if it was your intention to advance the former point, where it was later found to be false.
I would suggest that any straight-forward question is indeed a "trick" to someone like you. That is typical with people that have an agenda - they are not sure how to answer even the most simple questions in fear that said answer will unravel their patchwork position.
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
04-19-2014 , 05:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oski

Ken: Where in the Massei Report is anything mentioned about a "negroid hair" being found under one of Meredith's fingernails.

- Thanks.
Connect the dots –– the police knew that a man of African descent had been involved because they found negroid hairs at the crime scene. The police also knew Amanda had been in contact with her boss (Lumumba), who was of AFRICAN descent, on the night of the murder (Nov 1st).

During the all-night interrogation the police put 2 plus 2 together and came up with 5 as they led Amanda down the path of implicating her AFRICAN boss, Lumumba, and the next day (Nov 6th) the police proudly proclaimed "CASE CLOSED!"

Embarrassingly, on Nov 6th the bumbling police had promptly arrested Lumumba and had declared "CASE CLOSED" before they had any other proof that Lumumba was at the cottage.

The police had based their "CASE CLOSED" conclusions solely upon Amanda Knox's so-called confession where, as a result of incessant police prompting, Amanda supposedly had “imagined” that Lumumba had murdered Kercher while she covered her ears. JUNK IN, JUNK OUT!

According to Knox, the police kept insisting that they had proof that Lumumba was there that night, and since the DNA analysis hadn’t been done yet, that PROOF obviously can only be the negroid hairs they had found at the crime scene.

Or, did the police LIE to Amanda since they had ZERO proof that an AFRICAN (Lumumba) was there that night?

While Massei didn’t specifically refer to ‘NEGROID” hairs found at the crime scene, that was likely due to the fact that eventually an African man had been convicted for Kercher's murder, so for Massei the type of hairs (i.e., negroid versus anglo hairs) were no longer important to the case, especially since those hairs under Kercher's nails couldn't be linked to either Amanda or Raffaele:

Massei – page 110:
Quote:
"The inspection of the corpse was postponed, and was finally performed at around 0:30 am on November 3, 2007. At this point, it was possible to uncover the body completely and note that it was indeed "a female subject aged around 21, height 164cm, weight around 50 kilos; naked except for a shirt that she was wearing but that was pulled up over her breasts and was heavily soaked with blood". Also, her [KERCHER’S] hands were bloodstained and were protected with plastic bags in order to allow sample collection, as some hairlike fibres could be seen."
Even before the police had identified Guede, it was already being reported in Italy ONLY 15 days after the murder that the police were now trying to identify a 4th African suspect, and if they hadn't found negroid hairs, then what was their basis for going after another African suspect by 17 Nov 2007?

Quote:
Experts re-examine Meredith Kercher's body

By Malcolm Moore in Rome
17 Nov 2007
[ ]

Meanwhile, police have stepped up their hunt for a fourth person in connection with the crime, after forensic analysis in Rome discovered DNA traces on Miss Kercher's body that do not belong to any of the three current suspects.

The traces matched the DNA from some faeces left in the toilet at the crime scene, confirming to police that another man was in the house at the time of the murder.

In addition, there is a bloody fingerprint on a cushion in the flat that does not come from the three suspects, but which matches a bloody fingerprint on a scrap of toilet paper found by police in the bathroom.

Amanda Knox, 20, from Seattle, her boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito, 23, and Patrick Diya Lumumba, 37, are being held in a prison near Perugia on suspicion of sexual assault and murder.

Police believe that Miss Kercher was forced to have sex at knifepoint before being killed.

Investigators are now combing through Perugia's North African community and are working on the hypothesis that the fourth person could have been a drug dealer who supplied Knox and Sollecito with their hashish.

A man described as a "North African musician" was captured on a security camera leaving the scene of the crime at around the time of the murder.

MORE:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...hers-body.html
As the above UK article notes, the security cam in the auto-park across the street did capture Guede TWICE on camera, about 30 minutes apart, but both times were before 9:00 pm.

That early police comment was made before Mignini had discovered they had to push the TOD (Time of Death) beyond 11:00 pm due to Amanda and Raffaele having solid alibis from around 8:00 to 11:00 pm.

Apparently, Guede may have thrown the rock and retreated to see if the noise raised any suspicions both in the cottage and nearby apartments, and after Guede felt safe that the noise hadn’t been heard, Guede approached the cottage a 2nd time and crawled thru Filomena's window.

Clearly, early on the Italian police had found black negroid hairs at the crime scene, and FBI profiler John Douglas explains how the police had forced Amanda into implicating her African boss:

Quote:

John Douglas: "The police knew they had negroid hairs at the crime scene. Amanda exchanged texts the night before with Patrick Lumumba, who's of African descent, like Guede (Note: Lumumba owned the bar where Amanda worked as a waitress. He told her she wasn’t needed for work that night).

“Because the DNA evidence had not come back yet, the [police] jumped to the conclusion the hairs belonged to Lumumba. They interrogated [Knox] accordingly. The tactics used was to have Amanda say what the police wanted. You get people to confess under this psychological torture.”
FBI profiler John Douglas discusses the Knox case here:

http://womanonawire.blogspot.com/201...-profiler.html
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
04-19-2014 , 05:46 PM
I assume the word "negroid" doesn't actually appear anywhere in official documentation.. Am I wrong?
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
04-19-2014 , 05:49 PM
Ken Dine: "Negroid hayyyyyerr!"

Oski: Citation needed.

14Lobster: Cite that it didn't happen.

Oski: Bertface.
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote

      
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