I'm sure if we wanted to get graphic, we all would have some pretty sick stories. My first bowel movement during my withdrawal (two days into it) was so painful that the pain stuck with me for hours. The withdrawal made the stomach cramps even worse. I think I tried something like Docolax (?)...som kind of OTC stool softener and it didn't work too well for me.

As I said I really never get the diarrhea part of the withdrawal that most people get. I just get sudden urges for a bowel movement, and I just have to force it out so I don't feel like I have a cinder block in my stomach...it never turns to diarrhea though but now that I think about it that might be easier to deal with.

I've had alot of bloody bowel movements as well due to heroin. I don't know if its blood in the stool too begin with or blood from forcing the rock hard, sometimes jagged stool out and cutting myself open.

I'm pretty depressed as well. If I didn't have my work, which is something I strongly believe in, and my girls I don't know where I'd be. ****ing winter time does not help at all.

Do you have any kind of creative outlets?

I can't even imagine what it's like trying to **** after being on heroin for multiple days or longer. I was on Tylenol 3 for about five days after some surgery and about three days in I took the most painful **** of my life.

i know you're not going to like my opinion or probably even listen to me but i'll share with you whats worked for me as i've been in a similar situation, i've been arrested, depressed, in rehab, blah blah blah, but who the hell cares, my advice is to drop it all, even the pot, don't bother with antidepressants, check yourself into a long term rehab center, they can find ways to help you finance it, give aa/na a shot, work the program, change yourself and the way you think, refresh your body, mind, and spirit, you'd be amazed at what you can accomplish and how much your life can change, it's in your hands now and noone nor any drug is going to save you but yourself

Link

Layzie, I'd guess the people above can get you into a rehab program.

All the posters here who have kicked it are evidence that you can too. Get the help you need.

Man, that's gotta make it a ton harder. It does really make me wonder how ECT would affect withdrawal and addiction. Good luck, man.

First off, Would just like to thank everyone contributing ITT it is amazing and will probably help more people directly and indirectly than any of us can imagine. I haven't gotten deep into opiates like some of the posters as i saw first hand what the oxy-->heroin can do to a person through friends and i have been surrounded by problems with addiction in family friends and myself for my whole life.
But as someone who has messed around with oxy a bit, has been a habitual pot smoker for a third of my life (24), and has struggled with quitting cigs (brag: successful atm) I have found a couple of ways that weed can lead to relapse.
First, in a way you are substituting one source of VTA (pleasure center of your brain) with another one although insanely less potent in terms of neurotransmitters. So if you decide you need a break from herb (a hard decision since its relatively harmless) you will have trouble coping with sobriety, lack of stimulation, and boredom. I'm not saying that this will cause you to shoot up but it might bring some thoughts into your head that have been previously been absent. I found the dual quitting of cigs and weed in close proximity to be just as hard as the stressful times and the times when i was hanging out with friends who smoked. Not to mention that weed over long term does have small withdrawal effects: lack of hunger, insomnia, lack of interest/ increased boredom; all of these can make one more likely to relapse.
Along similar lines weed makes you less motivated to take on new interests. And when your ass is stoned you don't want to take on challenges or do anything that would make you uncomfortable compared to how you currently are. These factors lead one astray from the passions in life that can bring you pleasure without drugs. These things provide you with something to spend your time on so your not bored. Also, they can give you connections to friends that lead sober lives which is useful not only since there is less temptation but because it shows you what sober lives consist of and supplies more positive support (not to say some hobbies don't lead you into bad crowds).
LAstily, I am not sure how close to your dealers but one of my best friends has dealt off and on for a long time. And when i have hung out at his place many times I have been brought into temptation to do opiates through people he sells to. IE Someone offers to trade herb or debt for some opiates, his supplier has some opiates and doesn't want to be traveling with them so he leaves him with my friend to sell or hold on to, you see people you use to use opiates with or just reminded, offered or tempted by other users picking up. And of course not all dealers don't use, carry, or have a connection for you in times of weakness.
This all being said i find weed extremely therapeutic. It takes off the edge, makes everything so fun, and has many practical uses. And i would be very surprised at any point in my life that I will become anti weed let alone even contemplate complete abstinence from it.

I just started corresponding with Layzie over PMs. I think it would be a good idea for anyone who has gotten any help from Layzie or for him to post anything that he or she thinks was worth mentioning or could be helpful to some of the readers. Obviously paraphrased to avoid any embarrassment or unwanted leaked information, though feel free Layzie to take anything we discuss and post it. As probably a lot of gems of infortmation are lost this way.

Also my bad for writing such long potentially boring text with minimal breaks and stuff. Addiction therapy, psychology, and sociology are just a passion of mine and many of the issues discussed are so important to me and just have so much needed background and such that i find it hard to be short-winded.

Pretty much every state has a lot of information out their on facilities and many of the states have grants or work programs. But as someone who lives in california which based on my research has the most drug programs in any state it very hard to get detailed information on the quality of programs and many of these programs cost so much money if out of pocket and the free ones often have ridiculously long wait lists.

In fact the first program i put my mother into cost 8000$ for 3 months and was by far the cheapest program i could find that had room and was longer than a month. In fact many of the programs cost 5 figures a month. My mom claimed the 3 month program i put her into was terrible making so pretty ridiculous claims about how she was treated and how she was lied to.
Beat: She ended up running from it after a week with her signing a no refund form and the money was taken from my bank account without the program calling me. (the last time I talked to the program i said she wasn't ready for the program and i was unwilling to pay for it but i still lost my claim with wells fargo for a services not rendered/no authorization claim)

That being said I was willing to pay for it and bought her the plane ticket to the program, just the way they handled it and didn't even talk to me at all can't be legal and i still will probably pursue fighting this. BTW the program was called Yellowstone recovery and obviously i wouldn't recommend it to anyone and would suggest you dissuade anyone who contemplates going to this program.

Though she is now in a free program that she signed up for, about a year ago i believe, called Door to Hope and i would recommend this to anyone in central cali looking for suggestions on rehab centers (small chance it might be women only though, kinda unhelpful for the 2+2 demographic)... so much for not being long winded lol

Layzie, just want to give you some encouraging words. First and foremost, you have to do this for yourself, but know that there are probably a couple hundred silent readers of this thread like me cheering you on. I really, really hope you make it through, so don't give up. I can't really imagine the specific pains of dope sickness, but I understand having to push through something really, really bad. There's a ton of people here supporting you and please use us in anyway you need to in order to keep strong. You can do it, you have done it, and you're about to do it again.

Stay strong,

Danny

Sorry it took a bit to respond...I work evenings..sometimes I can post from work but if not I get home at 1am-2pm pacific....

Ok, personally I could not smoke weed and not be terribly tempted to do something better. I always thought I would smoke weed forever but towards the end I barely touched it. Let's face it..the high from smoking weed is child's play..

I especially couldnt start using weed now because I know my head would just be like "well I had 11+ years maybe I can have a beer" - then it begins..its quite the slippery slope..I am a full-blown addict - you name it ive probably been addicted to it.

My first instinct when you asked if it is ok to smoke weed was: your head is just ****ing with you trying to get you to use again..Somewhere above you guys talked about the mental ****..Addiction is not only physical craving but mental obsession. I cant tell you how many times I've had young dope fiends in groups tell me they dont see anything wrong with weed..Some, after being in treatment a long time realized its not worth the risk. Some, smoked weed and started using dope shortly thereafter..some, can stick to weed/drinking. Much of it goes back to a quality of life issue. My uncle was a dope fiend in the 70's, got hep c etc, jail etc.. I know he smokes weed all the time, drinks beer quite a bit. He's most likely an alcoholic/addict but he is functional - family/children etc..He's a hell of a cool guy. But my guess is his quality of life would be far greater if he had given it all up in the 70's..

I dont know much of your history..so its hard to say.. But for me I started getting ****ed up really young. Drinking and weed never did it for me..Because i wanted to forget and not feel ****. Slamming ketamine/coke/morphine/smoking crack/eating benzos were the only things that worked..Honestly, drugs saved my life - until they stopped working for me. And in order to get sober I had to deal with alot of ****ed up **** from long ago. Even now I think I've dealt with most of that ****..but feelings suck (and feelings are essentially what addicts use over) and I'm such an addict that no doubt weed would set me off again.

For you: your heroin addiction could be entirely situational - but most likely not..
Rambling but answer is: yes, you would have a higher chance of returning to heroin by smoking weed.

Like having sex with a woman? Or did you recant that idea? (I know that sounds like trolling, but I'm interested)

oh wow blast from the past

i had completely forgotten about this.

I feel lke Layzie's big brother when I say I'm worried that he hasn't posted in a bit. Yes, I'm a worry wart.

GL to Layzie and the rest of you going through this, sounds brutal. Quitting coke/crack was childs play compared to this.

Just heard an add on the radio, a boston sports talk station(98.5), about a program Harvard is offering for opiate addicts.Just heard it once so details are sketchy, but age range was 21-65, offers some type of new FDA approved drug/drugs, and participants must live with a family member or s/o who must also participate. Cost to participate is free.

Might not be what you are looking for Layzie, but may help someone else.I have the phone #, but not sure if I can post it here. If anyone is interested PM me, or if it is allowed I will post number here.

Hang in there Layzie, we are all rooting for you.

What exactly do you mean?

I think anxiety is a far bigger problem than depression... i'm not really sure yet, honestly.

No, I like your opinion... that's basically what I want to do. As far as the pot... well i'll expand on the pot situation a little later.

Thank you, I've been basically looking for that link for a week... Google is not my friend... or maybe i'm just bad at the internet all together.

Still hanging in there, just dealing with the ISP in history...I can't stay connected for longer than like 20 mins.

pdxmike,

Thanks for the answer. FWIW, i've smoked since age 15 or so. The only time I haven't smoke regularly in that period is when it's not a possibility (drug test for probation, being incarcerated, etc).

I'm not sure i'm a completely unique situation... I don't feel it would serve as a gateway because:

1. The weed is bought from a whole different culture of people I buy heroin from. These people would never meet each other.
2. I smoked heavily before heroin use, and it's hard to wrap my head around the idea that the reason I started using heroin was because weed didn't do it for me.
3. I don't drink and basically have tasted alcohol maybe 10 times in my life (not sure how relevant this is)

...i'll stop there, I know it sounds like I'm rationalizing reasons to continue smoking weed, but in all honesty I think i'm more looking for a good legitimate reason not to, given that it's so helpful with sleep and stress.

EDIT: I guess I do agree that the risk factors of smoking weed would run the average person a better chance of relapsing. Maybe it's true for me to, i'm just having a difficult time excepting/understanding it or something.

hey im checking this thread, i think its great your still off it. and posting and helping others. yudda man. keep it up , keep putting one day under your belt and youll feel better and better and before you know it your old life will seem like a memory. well done.

To anyone who has successfully kicked: are you comfortable drinking after you kick? I understand smoking is one thing because it calms you, but I would imagine that drinking may lead to impaired judgment.

Gamble,

That's what I was kinda getting at with my previous post...I feel alcohol would have a much higher rate of leading to relapse than marijuana...

To answer your question though most addicts aren't comfortable drinking after kicking.

Glad to see you back. I think there are a lot of people pulling for you here. I also feel like a lot of us are thinking and hoping for you a lot more than just when we're surfing through 2p2. GL

Glad I could help. It wasn't the easiest link to find, buried in a page about a TV show or something.

If you do run into long waiting lists, which is a distinct possibility with state help, is there a relative or friend in another area or state you could go live with temporarily? I think it's critical that you get away from your normal sources of distribution right now.

Thanks.. If I get through this, I would honestly be able to say that the people of 2+2 helped saved my life and it would be a 100% true statement. The private correspondence i've been having with a few of you guys has been so helpful, and shows me that there are some truly good people out there.

what about smoking weed? it's helped me with withdrawal symptoms immensely, although I understand why you wouldn't want to. but honestly, helps the nausea, and the sleeplessness.