Your statement only holds true if zerosum is the organ grinder's monkey and moshman is the organ grinder. I disagree with that.

It's just a figure of speech. Who is better zerosum or Collin Moshman ?

I have provided a 2 week money back (free trial) guarantee. There is no more risk than what would be involved with signing up for a training site. However the videos are really different than what you would find on a training site. They are interactive quizzes. The value here is that they provide direct feedback on comprehension like a coach would while playing. I do not think they are comparable and ran the idea by Hunter Bick (CEO of DTB) prior to releasing them to make sure he was comfortable that they did not directly compete.

As far as my book, I talked to Collin in depth prior to writing this book to determine whether or not it would be an issue with him to produce it. I did not want to cannibalize his book sales, and I wanted to make sure that he felt it was a significantly different approach that it was worth publishing.

My book is really based around a central concept that is new (although I have been talking about it for a while on DTB). We both felt that it was a significant addition to the literature that is out there on how to learn SNG's and that it was worth publishing.

I would say that my book is complementary in nature to his. The strategy's do not conflict, but the approach for how to implement them is quite different. In they end they arrive at the same conclusion, but I believe that the thought process for solving the problems is more streamlined and easier for a beginning player to grasp and implement.

As far as the price tag. I paid either $25 or $30 for Collin's book when it was first released. It may cost $8 now but when it was new, it cost more. My book is new and costs more. Eventually it might cost $8 as well but for now I believe that is set at the fair market value.

Regards,
zero

I actually like you analogy of the psychologist because it is a good one.

For example if you are seeking therapy do you go to a psychologist (lots of school) or a licensed counselor (a lot less school). Based on credentials, you would almost always pick the psychologist. Now what if you were given a very strong recommendation on a specific counselor being the absolute best option for your issues? Would that change your mind?

Anyways, I appreciate that your comment was very open minded. It is my hope as well that the book is well received and viewed as a credible coaching tool. I have tried to vet it with several knowledgeable players prior to completion and so far no one has found any significant issues.

My intent is simply to produce a good book that helps people play SNG's at a price tag that is significantly less than one-on-one coaching. If it does not meet those goals I will consider pulling it from the market. The intent is not to simply dupe people who are not knowledgeable about where to find good learning materials, and I know that there are significant questions in the community about this issue lately.

Regards,
zero

im going to throw in my opinion here seeing as i started this thread and was wanting feedback and no one has yet to give any apart from starting a slating fest i decided to purchase the book and have gave it a once through

first off all i will say that this book is very different in comparison to moshmans

the reason being its set out more like a course taking you from beginner to being able to play the games properly

one thing i like about it is it is kind of like having a written coach which you can work through with at your own pace

being first read through i cannot realllllllly comment on the complete strength of it as i wanted to give it a once through before i actualy digested it to see if the information was good or bad as i didnt want to spend a couple of weeks learning everything and realizing **** that was a load of **** and none of it is going to work

but in my opinion its a diferent style of reading and the strategy is very sound(iv even put it forward as something my staker should buy for new horses)

the training videos are pretty ace in my eyes and id pay the cash just for them there basically hand history reviews but its a video quiz(something defo new on the market) where you go through a whole sng and at key points you are asked would you do A,B,C e.t.c and progress accordingly which in my opinion is a breath of fresh air compared to the already cluttered **** videos released half the time just to get video numbers up

it does pretty much cover all aspects of the game and his pivot points theory is pretty good and as he says in the book its like having an in game SNGwiz which is pretty cool

all in all from first reading its a pretty complete course on how to beat sngs for what winrate i do not know only time will tell but i am impressed in the book and would defo welcome it into my pokerstore if i owned one haha

but as i said il do a full review on it in a week or so as one read aint enough plus hopefully il try get some results based on the strategy put forward if i have time to put in a decent sample

Pxf were doing that years ago when I subscribed. Afaik they still are.

Learn a few ICM ranges is what everyone does anyway. Sngwiz have a quiz for this as well.

I'm sure this offering is quite solid but it seems over priced to me.

your missing the point i give a few ranges to a novice what good is that to him he neither knows how to adjust nor create new ones

i seem to think people in here are overlooking the market for this book this isnt a 5k priced ground breaking strategy thats going to make you a millionaire

this is a complete course for players at micro to low(mabey mid) stakes sngs and offering them advice and a compelte learning path to get them able to hold their own in todays games and turn a profit

like i have said in my last post i havnt digested more than first two sections up to mid blind play but the advice is most defo solid advice

are the best sngs players in the world going to benifit from this book no

are the average and break even slight winners going to if it keeps going the way it is for sure they will

am i the best person to be writing a review?yes as i am in the aimed market

why people are dissing a book that they have neither read nor going to is beyond me id actualy love to see a big winner at low/mid stakes take a read and write a review

If you buy it before April 1st, it's quite reasonably priced.

I just shipped a copy go SiQ and he is going to take a look. I will also see if anyone else I know that might be respected on here will take a look. The offer is open to a few other higher stakes reg that wants to take a quick look if it will satisfy some of the critics.

Regards,
zero

when I tried out drag the bar last year,, I greatly enjoyed your power point videos in sit and goes and felt it was well organized.

for a 218 page book i just don't see paying 69 dollars or 99 dollars for. I dont' care about how much other people charged for their ebooks, I didnt' pay for those books either.

you mentioned paying full price for collin moshman book when it first came out and to me the only differnce here is you have 3 videos set up to show the concepts in the book. which I would of prefered that you add for free as a act of free will. (in fact it is my opnion that every poker pro who released a book should have 2 to 3 videos set up to help out the books ).

if you are looking to get it published in the future by say dimat, or two plus two I wouldn't mind paying the standard book price with it.

this post was in reference to the price of the book for it to be equal to a price of a lesson,,
i would like a concise video of advanced concepts for part one..
with the assumpation that sit and goers read collin moshman strategy book, and phil shaw sit and go book and are having trouble applying the concepts.
that shouldn't have the concepts of the book thrown in your face,, but on how to apply the concepts.

the second video should have the leaks of the intermediate players, it is hard to come up with an all encompassing leaks video,, but here you would have a market of
a, intermediate players who are not crushing the online sit and goes ,,
b. the ten leaks you see per stake video you picked for a 90 minute video.

a third video would have hem hand reviews of advanced common players.

a live game wouldnt' work unless that is how you teach ,, let them watch you play..
the fourth video would be advanced ways of using sit and go wizard, and sng solver.

your 3 videos that are described could be useful,, but I dont' think that is how I think a standard coaching session goes.

perhaps you can described how you 3 videos are better then all your videos on drag the bar, and a standard coaching session?.
and why didnt' you have a 12 video course instead of 3 videos?
if it was a 12 video meat course and not filler course it would have more value.

I was not aware that Poker X factor was doing this. I know a few other training sites had done quiz formats briefly (Stoxpoker) but what I was told is that they gave up on the format because they take a long time to produce. I actually did a few for DTB and stopped because they took so much longer than even a normal classroom video.

I think these quizzes are different but I don't really want to get into it because I have already gotten two infractions for posts that were too marketing heavy.

zero

Holmes,

Good to see you around these parts! Lots of good thoughts here on video topics. I can explain more of my thought process with you offline if you want on why I chose the format and video topics the way that I did.

Regarding the price: It was meant to fill a hole in the market for a bunch of people who wanted private lessons but did not want to pay my hourly rate. I hoped to deliver a product that was comparable at a rate that was a significant discount.

Regarding the number of videos: They are really intense to produce I had the majority of book done over a year ago but the videos took a huge chunk of time. 12 would have simply been impossible.

I think I can answer your last question since you asked it. Hopefully it will at least not draw another infraction if the mods choose to delete this. The videos are not classroom so its really not like the majority of my DTB vids. I found with a lot of books they have sections where there is a Q&A but that they don't really show a player what actually playing is like. Every hand is not AK or QQ etc and one of the things to realize with SNG's is really how much you fold. These give a realistic feeling about how SNG's should work and how you need to change gears throughout the tournament.

I also went through a lot of hand histories to select three hand histories that had a lot of spots that can be solved using the COS strategy. They provide direct feedback to tell a student whether they have gotten a handle on the topics after reading the book. By choosing different stakes they also show how at different stakes, adjustments are necessary but fairly easily implemented using the complete strategy in the book. They are intended to be a proof that if you learn correct SNG strategy, it will work and grow with you as you move up in stakes.

In short it was the best way that I could think of to accomplish a lot of goals. That is not to say that your ideas would not make some great videos though.

Regards,
zero

Maybe it's unfair to point this out here, even though I have done it before in other threads: that when an author takes heat suddenly a bunch of people with extremely low post counts come in and defend the author.

Not saying these are all Gimmick accounts but it definitely makes me wonder how much credibility these posts should have compared to a regular poster around here. I recently questioned Verneer regarding this issue, and to his credit he handled this most impressively.

Others not so well.

I would like to state for the record that all accounts that have posted on here are unsolicited comments (some of which I am surprised but happy to see found their way here). I am confidant that everyone posting can be verified as real people.

For example you can sharkscope diebanksters to see he is a real person. If people are not impressed by my SNG play history, it would be a long stretch to think I played 13K SNG's just to build a fake account. It would be equally unlikely that I would sign up for and pay for DTB just to be pagination (he has posted there for a while).

I am also confidant that other posters can be verified as independent by IP address and location checks by a mod or someone else.

Regards,
zero

Yeah check my IP, it should read South Korea.

I only came in to post as I think people should read a work before saying someone is or isn't qualified to write a book. Especially in a 'field of expertise' like poker, which has no qualification criteria other than 'does your writing articulate the concepts in such a way that it can improve other players?' If yes - you are qualified. If no, then you are not. It's that simple.

I had a study group with one of zero's students, tallscot, and also had a great experience with Team Moshman. One of his coaches turned me into a winner at a game I'd never even played before. From my experience with his student, and if Moshman believes zero's good enough to be a coach for him, then I trust zero's book is quality. Just my experience. I don't post much, yeah, but that doesn't make me a fake account.

Let just put it this way. The 2+2 book forum is not the Drag the Bar Forums with a ton of "attaboy" posting from regulars here like you might see from DTB members.

This forum is a great place to promote and discuss a book, but you need to be prepared to be put under a a bit of scrutiny. I retract that: a ton of scrutiny. I will admit, like Veneer and his recent book I also been impressed with many things Hunter has done representing DTB, especially after Stox imploded. It was handled way better then Card Runners for example. That still doesn't mean every DTB coach has instant credibility on this forum.

It wasn't all that long ago the we had a bunch of players trying to cash in with absurdly priced poker e-books. Black Friday as well as competitive pressures have forced a bit of sanity to return to poker e-book publishing.

Since Black Friday it seems like a ton of Drag the Bar coaches are coming out with e-books. I play a ton of SNG's and have interest in the book, but also am not going to give instant credibility to low post count posters that probably are not Gimmick accounts, but may not be offering a clearly unbiased viewpoint as well.

Weird, I've been coached by both SiQ and ZeroSum. SiQ coached me when I was struggling in the mid-stakes, but unfortunately BF hit and we didn't get to continue. He seemed to really know the game better than most.

Each coach should have a niche or target demographic, and I believe ZeroSum is about as good as it gets for beginners to struggling intermediate players. SiQ does an excellent job taking students to the next level, but I'm not sure if he'd have interest in dealing with beginners.

There's room for everyone in the marketplace as long as they are providing a service that customers are happy with. I know 5-6 people personally that have been coached by Greg and I have never heard a complaint.

I barely even play anymore post-bf, but I might have to take a look at this book for old times sake.

I appreciate your post. New authors that have no posting history with the regulars on this board and their entourage's need to understand we see this time and time again. Post for a self published e-book that is the promoted as holy grail to poker profit, and several people with low post rave about the book.

There are some hard core poker book guys on this board and if you have a good product it will get it's due in time. But as an author you better be prepared to run the gauntlet. This is not an "ataboy" forum. I am also skeptical of people that post away the someone is a great coach without substance behind the post of why.

I did look you up on sharkscope and you have solid sng numbers with 7589 sng's played on stars. So yes I can say that you are not the authors gimmick account, but who's to say you are not a buddy going to bat for a friend's project?

You have more credibility because you indicate you were coached by the author and clearly figured out how to beat $5 to $10 sng's but should understand why some of the regs on this board might be a bit skeptical of some of the posting in new self-published e-books in these threads.

This is inevitable when coaches with a lot of videos on a training site publish books. Some of the subscribers from the training site/training site forums will post rapturous reviews.

thought sng's where pretty much dead

This is a myth.

SNG's are clearly more profitable online then live. So for a US player it would be hard to make a living playing them. I for example played thousands of sngs (profitably btw) on tilt and stars before black friday. For a non-US player it is still viable.

That's my issue I am owed several thousand from Tilt and have built a small bankroll playing freeroll sng's on Merge. I don't want to make a deposit on merge because I am probably kissing that money goodbye. So I am play 60 cent sngs on merge. I am interested in the book. But to buy it at $69 in today's US poker economy with a pretty unknown author on form of poker that's played online investing more than my current online bankroll is really a questionable decision. I think there are plenty of players in my shoes that this book is targeted at.

I think the author should look at what Black Rain has done with his book. This book is not targeted to Darin Van Gammeren (darinvg), Andrew Li (azntracker) or Calvin Anderson (cal42688). A bet his target audience for US sng players is a lot like me.

By that logic the the Ed Miller Small Stakes NL book should cost $20 as well. However, the fact remains that I paid $99 and so did many other people. He has adjusted his price to ~$30 but the book is now a year or two old.

I would still contend that the price for my book is reasonable based on the current poker economy, and I have explained why I think it provides more value than a simple book. Based on the conversation on here it is possible that $99 may be too high, but that's a risk that I am willing to take. If it doesn't sell then I will re-evaluate.

Do you really blame me for wanting to sell something I worked on for a long time for a price that I think is reasonable based on how long I worked and how much value I believe it has?

zero

if he is willing to "pay" 1 day of learning push/fold charts, or learning how to read and use them, i'll guarantee you that you can turn the dumbest fish in 1 week into a +roi player

I think you overestimate its value. I have looked at your "proprietary" pivot points concept and I can see nothing new about it. Any beginner who devotes a reasonable amount of time and energy into learning push fold ranges will start to win and the "pivot point" way of looking at things is too rigid. Imv the important points are where the jumps in equity occur. I think it is important to get beginners to look at estimating their opponents' ranges and what kind of equity they need and this applies to all games. New sets of your "pivot points" will need to be learnt for every different format.