I everybody! I`m new here. I`m a french Canadian so sorry for my English.

I play sitngo turbo 10 plyrs. The problems is, i have read books strategy about sitngo and i use sitngo wizzard to analyse my endgame. But, it seems that the books and the programs dosen`t fit together. in general when your Under 10 BB the books said to push almost any 2 cards first in vigorish. But the wizzard programs say to push any 2 cards only SB vs BB. And all the other position to push for value whit goods starting hands.

I am finishing the book si`tngo strategy by collin Moshman and i don`t know what to do. Should i play tight as the sitngo wizzad or should i play for the fold equity as the books say.

Do someone else have remarqued this? Books and programs are in contradiction alot.

Hi Yoda,

I don't agree that most books say to push any two cards first in at <10BB. For example first to act 7 handed this would be a huge leak.

However you also hit on something else that is fundamental when using SNG Wizard. The default settings are not always correct and therefore you cannot just blindly rely on its advice. One of the keys to learning to play SNG's correctly is actually to learn to configure SNG Wizard to get accurate results. Once you are able to do that, you should most often rely on it's advice.

Overall I don't suspect in the long run you will see any inconsistency with books on the market and SNG Wizard/ICM calculator results except in spots where you might want to take a negative edge.

It may be outside of the realm of this forum but post a few specific hands if you want to try to resolve this issue?

Best Regards,
zero

U means to adjust the opponments range?

There are a couple adjustments that are really important. The first is definitely the opponent ranges. The other is the edge which is a measure of how profitable the decision must be to be worth taking risk. There are times where you will need to have a very small or even negative edge to get an accurate range based on a specific situation. One thing I have noticed with beginners and also the SNG Wizard defaults is a tendency to set the edge too high.

Its all part of the process of learning, so don't be afraid to make mistakes and keep working with SNG Wizard. Just don't think its a magic solution for learning proper SNG Strategy.

One exercise you might want to do is to set up some situations you see in SNG books and see how you need to adjust SNG Wizard to get a similar result?

Best Regards,
zero

I haven't read the book nor use SnG wizard but SnG wizard is most likely based upon Nash equilibrium and based upon you having more fold equity mathematically. What I like about books better is that it takes into account Game Theory Optimal which also usually talks about psychology in a sense and how a villain's optimal move based upon the situation.

Since I don't use SNG wizard, I can't say if this is true but I'm assuming that SNG wizard uses the same equity calculations no matter what stakes the games are. In micro SNGs, there are so many fish, your fold equity diminishes since they will call down lighter just because they stack off lighter. In bigger games, opponents can adjust to you and 3bet if you're just raising (when bigger than ~15BB situations)

So for your example, nash equilibrium calcs say that you should push with your top X% range from UTG when less than or equal to 15BBs deep. This does not account for any of the table dynamics such as, your table is full of people who like to go all-in multiway because it's a cheap 10 man SNG and they can just register a billion more. Seriously, a lot of fish think that way. Is shoving here wrong? No, but are there more optimal strategies outside of the ABC SNG wiz? Yes.

All this seams a little bit complicated... Hope i`m playing and using sit&go wizzard correctly.

I do some adjustement when analysing my games whit wizzard. Like, if i raised the BB allin 4 time in a row and wizzard say to raise whit 72o the 5th times i consider my fold ok (fold equity decreased).

Or if someone raise 90% of is hands but wizzards put him on a range of 40% and told me i were suposed to fold i know my call was correct in fact.

some ruff exemple

Sounds like you are thinking about things the right way, but haven't figured out how to use wiz correctly, so you've done the complicated bit

Basically, what zerosum said. In your first example, wiz doesn't tell you "shoving 72o is +EV", wiz tells you "shoving 72o is +EV IF bb is calling with a range of x%". Go into wiz, adjust bb calling range to what you think it is and recalculate, wiz will only give you a reasonable answer if you do this. Same with example 2, tell wiz that villain is shoving 90% and it'll give you a reasonable answer, Wiz has absolutely no clue what someone's shoving or calling range is, wiz is only a calculator, it's default ranges are usually terrible, you must adjust these yourself every time.

Books can probably give you an understanding of the principles of push/fold play but is too general, but wiz used correctly will give you reasonably accurate answers for every specific situation.

Wiz is an icm calculator, the default ranges it uses are not based on a Nash equilibrium (I think they're based on some historical data collection of what people typically shove/call with, or in other words, pulled out of its ass).

lets be logical about this pushing under 10BB in the small blind is pretty standard for a long term benifit, you also have good equity for pushing alot of hands vs late raising

This truely is going to come down to your table dynamics Im surprised that the book doesn't go into the importance of your table dynamics,

Sometimes it will be plus EV to shove every hand and sometimes it wont be. If your on a table full of solid regs you need to make adjustments to your game and take into account good players might still call you if they are getting the right pot odds vs hand equity so your potentially losing longterm shoving any 2 cards

however some players wont be calling on the bubble ultra tight and others might call hands as weak as ace high.

observation is key to maximising profit

Thanks everyones i apreciate

also; keep in mind that you can never exactly tell what your opponents range would be, the guy with the best estimates wins..
little off topic; does wiz take card removal effect in account?

it could only take that into account if you dumped in all the ranges from the other players before the actual shover, otherwise there wouldn't be a point doing that

It could take into account your holding. Let's say you push A5 bvb. You will get called less often than you would be with 56s just because villain can't hold your Ace. I think Wiz does that put I'm not sure.