HOC has its main focus on full ring games. I believe that since those 2 volumes were published, Dan has been playing 6 max online, and they are currently writing HOC Vol. 3, which is about online 6 max.

I thought HOH was outstanding in it's day as opposed to 'good', furthermore I still recommend their purchase to anyone I play against who wants to learn the tourney game more. They are the sort of books, to paraphrase (DS I think), "That you can take to the bank" i.e. buy them and make money.

HOC on the other hand didn't quite reach the heights that HOH did for me, now that may be that the advice given in them, although theoretically sound for the higher stakes, didn't really apply to the lower stakes games I play in.

I appreciate there was a small section in the rear of vol 2 (iirc) on playing lower stakes, however from what I read it really didn't translate too well to the micro stakes games I sit in on (25NL & $50NL FR on stars). Micro players would be far better reading the posts in the excellent micro full ring forum on here. Some very good advice and totally in tune with how the games play at those levels.

I do agree with your anti-limping comment though.

Edit - As it's the Ed Miller book thread, I had better add that I bought this book and so far it seems to 'tick all the boxes', If I had one gripe (& it's a major one) it should have been published as a normal paperback rather than an e book. I hate reading books on a screen and having printed it out, I have found that reading something in A4 size detracts from the content, the thing is just to damn bulky to enjoy reading.

What happened to this? All the sudden it's a HOH discussion thread.

I totally agree. I LOATHE the Ebook format. I really wish this new book of Ed's had been published in hard copy.

Most examples in the book are written in 2nd person, e.g. "You raise preflop with pocket deuces and get called by a blind." But everyone once in a while the example is in 3rd person mythical, e.g. on page 78 "The hero opens for $7 from under the gun with 55" and "The turn is the K. What should the hero do now?"

I wouldn't have thought I'd care, but I noticed it last night while sleepily reading in bed. "The hero" seems like an unnecessary convention that is less readable than "you". Somewhat like if they had used "he or she" instead of singular they.

Regardless, I have seen an improvement in my 0.01/0.02 game, but that's hardly an epic feat and would probably be true after ready most any poker book.

But back to the thread derailment:
On Pokercast #24 with Bill Robertie at 72:23, Mr. Robertie states:

If 2+2 were like Wikipedia, then my citation would win the day, but I fear the arguments will continue.

I'm surprised how well I'm dealing with the ebook format, although I'd still prefer a hard copy. Now, in the authors' defense, the ebook format probably saved them some grief as they determined a way to get their book out to the public. I am glad to have the book, regardless of the format.

I think you're right, but I got it to work on mine. I'll send you a pm.

i'm wondering the same thing, would this book still be useful for me even tho i dont use hud and don't know what all the stats represent?

srry for derailing the thread guys, i just read the thread over up to my last post and realized how much my post threw everything off. i did not mean to kill the thread sorry guys lol.

It explains the stats in pretty good detail, if you don't know what they mean. I've never played a hand of poker on the internet either. I'd say the book is definitely applicable to live games so far-- I'm about a hundred pages in-- as long as you adjust your thinking in some areas. For instance, it's been mentioned before, but blind stealing is less important in a full ring live game than online 6-max. But player types are easily recognizable from the descriptions, even if you can't read 36/12 next to their name.

To everyone worried about being able to read it away from your computer: It was very easy to print out 2 pages of the e-book per printed page (sideways), use a 3-hole punch, and lock them in a 3-ring binder. Took me half an hour, and 153 sheets of paper, a very small extra expense. If I took the time I could have figured out how to print it double-sided and use half the sheets. But now I can take it wherever I want and I have tons of room to take notes. I'm about to start my second read through.

And as far as a review goes, this book is excellent, and well worth it. The way the authors describe what factors go into every decision is fantastic. I couldn't be more pleased with the purchase.

Except there's no stealing in live 1/2. For one thing, it almost never folds to the button. My last 2 or 3 Vegas trips, I think it folded to the button maybe 5 times TOTAL. Who wants to risk 10 dollars to steal 3 bucks anyway?

In live full ring games against horrible, clueless players where there are constant family pots you can get by playing fit or fold and just waiting until you flop a monster and then get the money in. If you think you will be able to do that playing online 6 max and be a winning player you will get eaten alive. You will have zero chance of being a winner.

Think the book is excellent so far, picked it up after seeing Ed's video's on Stox and it builds very nicely on those.

I read about 1/4 of the book but then paused as I had ordered PNLHE from 2+2 and that arrived last week so decided to read that before continuing so I had concepts such as REM locked down.

$100, worth it for a 50NL 6max player? or should I wait til i'm playing 200NL or 100NL?

well from what i've read so far, the book says that if you can learn to beat a 1/2 6 max game online, then you can beat 99% of all NL games.

If you can afford the two BIs I say get the book. You'll most likely move up faster than you would naturally.

Do any of the authors publish their results from 200 NL? I know billyjex posted his results at his website that sold his e-book. Good idea imo. Not so much that I question the ideas in the books, but would like to see much these guys are playing the games they write about.

I don't care about online 6 max. I'm never going to play it. I've been asking about live play, and how this book applies.

yeah agreed

This book teaches how and why you should adjust to different players in different situation to exploit their stereotype tendencies, and not telling people you should be folding 7-2 off suit or shoving with pocket Aces preflop no matter what. That's alone makes it universally applicable to any games you play, live and online, from micro to nosebleed stakes.

I don't know why you think this. Mason made it clear earlier in this thread that Dan Harrington is playing six max and others have said it is almost the only on-line game he is playing now.

i appologize if anyone asked this question before me i haven't read all the pages of this thread, but is the book going to be printed the classic way ? or e-book is the only way to get it / read it ?

There's some controversial advice in the Miller et al book. The book says if you play the way they say you should will likely end up with LAG 29/24 stats (p55) and it also says to continuation bet (cb) 100% in HU pots (p67). Harringtion on Cash 2 implies that tighter is better and says that 60% cb is the maximum for good play.

That's the only major problem I've had with the book so far. 100% cbetting with a superwide button range is begging to be floated and taken off hands over and over.

It's light on playing a raiser IP too I think.

To be fair, haven't read it all tho.