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Review: Peter 'Carroters' Clarke - The Grinder's Manual Review: Peter 'Carroters' Clarke - The Grinder's Manual

10-16-2017 , 04:23 AM
Written in October:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carroters
Looking at September-October as a release date for both kindle and PDF versions.
Pretty impressed that an author has actually managed to correctly forecast when he will get his book out.

Listening to the podcasts, I've noticed you talk a lot more on about game theory and solver-type thinking than in older episodes. Have you changed you mind on how much it's important or do you think the games have changed?

In TGM you have:

Quote:
The Offensive/Defensive Rule
When Hero has a good idea whether or not he is likely to meet either RE on a call or RFE on a bluff, he should play his range offensively/exploitatively post-flop and look at the maths from his own perspective. When Hero is unsure whether or not he is likely to meet either RE on call or RFE on a bluff, he should play his range defensively/balanced post-flop and look at the maths from Villain's perspective.
You still think that's correct, right?
Review: Peter 'Carroters' Clarke - The Grinder's Manual Quote
10-16-2017 , 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LektorAJ
Written in October:



Pretty impressed that an author has actually managed to correctly forecast when he will get his book out.

Listening to the podcasts, I've noticed you talk a lot more on about game theory and solver-type thinking than in older episodes. Have you changed you mind on how much it's important or do you think the games have changed?

In TGM you have:



You still think that's correct, right?
Absolutely. This is always going to be super solid advice.

I talk more about GTO based thoughts now because 100 Hands is a more advanced text that is far more GTO conscious. I find exploitative play a little more basic and easy to understand, plus I covered it very fully in TGM. 100 Hands focuses on both offensive and defensive thought processes and aboslutely adheres to the quoted rule.

As I was announcing that the book would be ready around this time, I too doubted that it actually would be! I somehow managed it! Don't count on such accurate predictions every time though
Review: Peter 'Carroters' Clarke - The Grinder's Manual Quote
10-16-2017 , 11:33 AM
ETA for kindle version?
Review: Peter 'Carroters' Clarke - The Grinder's Manual Quote
10-19-2017 , 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4-Star General
ETA for kindle version?
I'm hoping it should be ready in about a week's time.
Review: Peter 'Carroters' Clarke - The Grinder's Manual Quote
10-19-2017 , 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carroters
I'm hoping it should be ready in about a week's time.
Ty a lot, gonna snapbuy also this one.
Cheers
Review: Peter 'Carroters' Clarke - The Grinder's Manual Quote
10-19-2017 , 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4-Star General
Ty a lot, gonna snapbuy also this one.
Cheers
I've read through the first 11 hands ... very solid, and blends in perfectly actually with the thought processes taught in TGM
Review: Peter 'Carroters' Clarke - The Grinder's Manual Quote
10-23-2017 , 06:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carroters
On Page 42 the author gives his definition of a value bet. I think this definition is outdated and doesn’t capture the true nature of what makes a bet a “value bet” today in NLHE. The author gives two definitions of what makes a bet for value.

The intention that makes a bet for value is given as:

“To get more money in the pot with presumably the best hand”

Today this intention is misleading. A thin value bet could be made with as little as 53% equity vs. Villain’s calling range. Our hand is not anywhere near to presumably best. The modern definition therefore thinks much more in terms of ranges than likelihood of having the best hand as does general poker strategy. Today we would expect to read something more to the effect of: “Our hand has more than 50% equity when called” We certainly don’t presume it’s the best hand.

The second thing that defines a value bet is given as:

“Discouraging your opponents from drawing to beat you.”

Today competent players call this ‘protection.’ Making a bet, the primary purpose of which is to fold out worse hands that may have significant equity, is now known as a protection bet and is a totally separate reason. The notion of protection correctly applied was less prominent in poker thinking in 2010. This is just a natural evolution of the way we differentiate reasons to bet today (bluff, value and protection are now the main three).
So what do u think about Janda's opinion there are only 2 reasons to bet (similar as Beluga stated in his 3rd edition of Easy game):

1. We bet or raise to make the pot bigger in case we win.
2. We bet or raise to deny our opponent the ability to realize his equity.

?
Review: Peter 'Carroters' Clarke - The Grinder's Manual Quote
10-23-2017 , 08:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4-Star General
Ty a lot, gonna snapbuy also this one.
Cheers
It's now being reviewed by amazon and should be up in the next day or two.
Review: Peter 'Carroters' Clarke - The Grinder's Manual Quote
10-23-2017 , 08:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by +VLFBERH+T
I've read through the first 11 hands ... very solid, and blends in perfectly actually with the thought processes taught in TGM
Thanks for the kind words and really happy to hear about people enjoying it at this very early stage
Review: Peter 'Carroters' Clarke - The Grinder's Manual Quote
10-23-2017 , 08:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dissection
So what do u think about Janda's opinion there are only 2 reasons to bet (similar as Beluga stated in his 3rd edition of Easy game):

1. We bet or raise to make the pot bigger in case we win.
2. We bet or raise to deny our opponent the ability to realize his equity.

?
As poker terminology has only been around for a tiny amount of time relative to the rest of our language, I think that we have to be very careful about semantic confusions.

I think that the notions of bluffing and semi-bluffing are distributed within both of the above reasons to bet. Of course reason 2 can basically cover any kind of bluffing scenario, but for newer players I find it much clearer to differentiate betting with a hand that is likely best to deny equity and betting with a hand that is very often worse against Villain's folding range to win a pot that we cannot often win by not betting.

I think the three tier approach (value bluff and protection) makes a far more applicable impact on the student's understanding. There are times when protection is unnecessary but bluffing is necessary or vice versa and so being able to separate these things in your tool kit is a worthwhile skill, even if there is a lot of crossover between all of the reasons to bet in temrs of pure EV gained and lost.
Review: Peter 'Carroters' Clarke - The Grinder's Manual Quote
10-23-2017 , 09:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carroters
As poker terminology has only been around for a tiny amount of time relative to the rest of our language, I think that we have to be very careful about semantic confusions.

I think that the notions of bluffing and semi-bluffing are distributed within both of the above reasons to bet. Of course reason 2 can basically cover any kind of bluffing scenario, but for newer players I find it much clearer to differentiate betting with a hand that is likely best to deny equity and betting with a hand that is very often worse against Villain's folding range to win a pot that we cannot often win by not betting.

I think the three tier approach (value bluff and protection) makes a far more applicable impact on the student's understanding. There are times when protection is unnecessary but bluffing is necessary or vice versa and so being able to separate these things in your tool kit is a worthwhile skill, even if there is a lot of crossover between all of the reasons to bet in temrs of pure EV gained and lost.
I couldn't agree more. So far I have read free sample and it looks good. Definitely gonna buy the book. I have a question: in case there will be newer version (correcting mistakes for example) do I still get the copy once I bought it? Thanks !

Last edited by dissection; 10-23-2017 at 09:10 AM.
Review: Peter 'Carroters' Clarke - The Grinder's Manual Quote
10-23-2017 , 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dissection
I couldn't agree more. So far I have read free sample and it looks good. Definitely gonna buy the book. I have a question: in case there will be newer version (correcting mistakes for example) do I still get the copy once I bought it? Thanks !
Yes absolutely. An updated version (if one is required) will be free to anyone who has purchased the first edition. So far, I'm quite happy with the level of accuracy of this edition, but time will tell
Review: Peter 'Carroters' Clarke - The Grinder's Manual Quote
10-25-2017 , 10:15 AM
Hey guys. Kindle version of 100 Hands now available on the Amazon store. As always, if you are wanting both versions please buy the PDF from my webstie and receive a free kindle book by emailing me afterwards. This helps me make my living from teaching and writing about poker. Thanks guys
Review: Peter 'Carroters' Clarke - The Grinder's Manual Quote
10-25-2017 , 10:40 AM
Just bought and sent you an email, thanks, looking forward to it!
Review: Peter 'Carroters' Clarke - The Grinder's Manual Quote
10-25-2017 , 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gila
Just bought and sent you an email, thanks, looking forward to it!
Thanks for buying a copy. I've sent the kindle version over. Enjoy!
Review: Peter 'Carroters' Clarke - The Grinder's Manual Quote
10-25-2017 , 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carroters
Thanks for buying a copy. I've sent the kindle version over. Enjoy!
Thanks for the quick response and Kindle copies, I look forward to reading soon!
Review: Peter 'Carroters' Clarke - The Grinder's Manual Quote
11-01-2017 , 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carroters
Thanks for the kind words and really happy to hear about people enjoying it at this very early stage
Finished reading it, still loving it and will need to read and work through TGM and 100 Hands several times over ... if only someone could write a book on poker tournaments that comes even close to this
Review: Peter 'Carroters' Clarke - The Grinder's Manual Quote
11-02-2017 , 05:36 PM
TGM was great, i went ahead and ordered 100hands for kindle a few days ago.


Hand 28: is this a troll? Call KJo from BB after a raise and call, flop JJ9, decide to lead it, get raised, call flop, call turn, fold river on brick brick??!? Why lead at all then? Why call pre when you flop the best possible hand for your two hole cards just about?
Review: Peter 'Carroters' Clarke - The Grinder's Manual Quote
11-04-2017 , 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tapeitup
TGM was great, i went ahead and ordered 100hands for kindle a few days ago.


Hand 28: is this a troll? Call KJo from BB after a raise and call, flop JJ9, decide to lead it, get raised, call flop, call turn, fold river on brick brick??!? Why lead at all then? Why call pre when you flop the best possible hand for your two hole cards just about?
Getting raised after leading is a fairly rare occruence so it would be a mistake to evaluate the decision to lead based only on how we play or feel after getting raised. Our EV when we get raised here will never be good, but nor will it be great if we check/call down three times to a triple in a pot that was three way on the flop. essentially when our opponents take lines that rep better hands than ours, they will often have those hands in this situation and so none of these worlds are good for us regardless of how we played the flop.

Correct me if I'm reading your post wrong, but you seem to be making a very shaky assumption here that our calling ranges shouldn't narrow if the board texture doesn't change. Optimal play actually requires that we have some hands that fold to the flop raise, others that call flop fold turn; another group that call flop and turn and then fold river; and lastly a group that calls down. To want to call all of your bluff catchers because of no change in board texture is to assume that Villain is overbluffing (bluffing more than is balanced) We do not have reason to suppose this is true here.

We do not know what Villain's range is. Rather than guess what street to fold, we decide where this hand falls in our range and if population reads may guide us to fold less or more than is balanced. The third barrell is very rarely fired in these games, especially on non changing run-outs, hence the suggestion that we should fold on the river and overfold the range with which we arrive there.

Lastly, no I don't try to troll my readers and I am happy for them to disagree. It can only generate healthy discussion.
Review: Peter 'Carroters' Clarke - The Grinder's Manual Quote
11-04-2017 , 08:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by +VLFBERH+T
Finished reading it, still loving it and will need to read and work through TGM and 100 Hands several times over ... if only someone could write a book on poker tournaments that comes even close to this
Thanks very much and glad that you have enjoyed both books
Review: Peter 'Carroters' Clarke - The Grinder's Manual Quote
11-04-2017 , 08:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tapeitup
Why lead at all then? Why call pre when you flop the best possible hand for your two hole cards just about?
Also be careful here. There are thousands of different branches on which we flop trips each with it's own action sequence, texture and EV. Don't assume that because we folded a very strong hand on one branch that calling pre-flop is bad. This is the worst sequence of events for us to have trips, what about all the other thousands of situations where we don't face someone repping a stronger hand than ours and we make a few bets? What about winning some pots without a made hand by semi-bluffing? What about the pot odds and the reasonable standards they set us for how well we need to do on average post-flop in the first place?

Poker is a game of many potential realities. I always advise my students to zoom out and consider the combined picture of these realities.
Review: Peter 'Carroters' Clarke - The Grinder's Manual Quote
11-19-2017 , 06:34 AM
I also bought your new book and sent an email.
Review: Peter 'Carroters' Clarke - The Grinder's Manual Quote
11-23-2017 , 02:27 PM
I just got the copy of the Kindle version from Pete, but I'm having an issue opening it on my Kindle devices. I'm curious if anyone else has run into something similar.

I can open the file on my PC and view with the Kindle PC app... But it won't sync to Amazon via the Manage My Content page.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Review: Peter 'Carroters' Clarke - The Grinder's Manual Quote
11-30-2017 , 10:07 PM
Being new to NLHE but having some Limit experience: A week in, I'm loving this book. It's super easy to read and follow along with. The concepts seamlessly build upon each other, just like how a text or any instructional manual intends to. I feel that if I had just purchased this book, that I wouldn't have needed to purchase all the others. If someone were to ask me how to learn NLHE by reading books, id tell them to start here. I'll definitely be picking up Peter's other book(s).

Sent from my KFDOWI using Tapatalk
Review: Peter 'Carroters' Clarke - The Grinder's Manual Quote
12-01-2017 , 02:15 AM
^ Are you talking about the Grinder's Manual or the new book? You mean someone who already played some other form of poker and wanted to learn NLHE I assume.

If the grinder's manual (and probably the new one too) then you need to side-load it to your kindle - i.e. connect by USB to PC, browse file structure of kindle, copy it to somewhere on Kindle. I don't think amazon will sync things you haven't bought from them but I might be wrong about that.
Review: Peter 'Carroters' Clarke - The Grinder's Manual Quote

      
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