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Old 08-01-2020, 01:14 PM   #1
Mason Malmuth
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PLAY OPTIMAL POKER 2: RANGE CONSTRUCTION

Hi Everyone:

I know there's interest in Andrew Brokos' latest book and have only read a small amount of it so far. But what I have read is very good.

However, he does state "This book will not help you get dealt Aces or flop sets any more often than you already do." which I found disappointing.

Best wishes,
Mason
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Old 08-01-2020, 01:27 PM   #2
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Re: PLAY OPTIMAL POKER 2: RANGE CONSTRUCTION

Where can one find a link to your review of part 1? Thanks in advance.

Also, why no reviews of sites? There are a lot of them out there. Surely they’d allow a credible reviewer like yourself access to give feedback if they believe in their products.
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Old 08-01-2020, 01:34 PM   #3
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Re: PLAY OPTIMAL POKER 2: RANGE CONSTRUCTION

Hi RodionRaskolnikov;

Quote:
Originally Posted by RodionRaskolnikov View Post
Where can one find a link to your review of part 1? Thanks in advance. .
See Post #67 in this thread:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/3...views-1663503/

Quote:
Also, why no reviews of sites? There are a lot of them out there. Surely they’d allow a credible reviewer like yourself access to give feedback if they believe in their products.
First, I don't have the time and second, this is something where my interest isn't there. Part of the reason I read and review so many books is that I learn from them, and what is there to learn from reviewing poker sites?

Best wishes,
Mason
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Old 08-02-2020, 05:45 AM   #4
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Re: PLAY OPTIMAL POKER 2: RANGE CONSTRUCTION

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
Hi RodionRaskolnikov;



See Post #67 in this thread:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/3...views-1663503/



First, I don't have the time and second, this is something where my interest isn't there. Part of the reason I read and review so many books is that I learn from them, and what is there to learn from reviewing poker sites?

Best wishes,
Mason
I was referring to training sites.
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Old 08-02-2020, 04:01 PM   #5
Mason Malmuth
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Re: PLAY OPTIMAL POKER 2: RANGE CONSTRUCTION

Quote:
Originally Posted by RodionRaskolnikov View Post
I was referring to training sites.
Hi Rodion:

That's not going to happen. To do this right I would have to watch a large number of videos and that's some for which I don't have the time.

Best wishes,
Mason
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Old 08-08-2020, 04:52 PM   #6
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Re: PLAY OPTIMAL POKER 2: RANGE CONSTRUCTION

Isn't the Kindle version available?
I'm getting a strange error on Amazon
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Old 08-08-2020, 06:45 PM   #7
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Re: PLAY OPTIMAL POKER 2: RANGE CONSTRUCTION

Sorry about that. Amazon asked me to fix some typos, and I'm waiting for them to confirm that they're fixed.

I don't think I'm allowed to post the link here, but the e-book is still available from my personal site, which is called the Nitcast Store.
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Old 08-08-2020, 07:24 PM   #8
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Re: PLAY OPTIMAL POKER 2: RANGE CONSTRUCTION

Hey... ty for the reply.
I'll wait (eagerly) for the kindle version though, your first book was very impressive.

Best of luck with the new one
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Old 08-09-2020, 12:51 AM   #9
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Re: PLAY OPTIMAL POKER 2: RANGE CONSTRUCTION

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foucault View Post
Sorry about that. Amazon asked me to fix some typos, and I'm waiting for them to confirm that they're fixed.

I don't think I'm allowed to post the link here, but the e-book is still available from my personal site, which is called the Nitcast Store.
Posting the link should be fine.

Best wishes,
Mason
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Old 08-09-2020, 04:45 PM   #10
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Re: PLAY OPTIMAL POKER 2: RANGE CONSTRUCTION

Appreciate that, Mason.

This will include PDF, Kindle, and EPUB formats. You just have to transfer to your Kindle via USB rather than Amazon doing it automatically via Wi-Fi.

Play Optimal Poker 2
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Old 08-13-2020, 02:34 PM   #11
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Re: PLAY OPTIMAL POKER 2: RANGE CONSTRUCTION

Thank you Andrew,

Just wondering why there is a big price discrepancy between POP 1 and POP 2. Is POP 2 a bigger volume book?
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Old 08-13-2020, 02:56 PM   #12
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Re: PLAY OPTIMAL POKER 2: RANGE CONSTRUCTION

Hi Foucault:

So far, I think this is a better book than Voluke I even though I thought Volume I was outstanding. But I have a question.

ON page 110 where Ivan has checked o the flop you write: "The average amount of money that goes into the pot by the river should be roughly the same whether Ivan bets or checks." Won't this sometimes cause the pot to be overbet since there are now only two rounds of betting and not three?

Best wishes,
Mason
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Old 08-14-2020, 09:42 AM   #13
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Re: PLAY OPTIMAL POKER 2: RANGE CONSTRUCTION

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Thank you Andrew,

Just wondering why there is a big price discrepancy between POP 1 and POP 2. Is POP 2 a bigger volume book?
You must be looking at the e-book prices. I lowered the price on the POP 1 e-book to give more people a chance to read it, after it had been out for a while. FWIW I don't plan to do the same with POP 2. It's a somewhat longer book and contains more advanced information.
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Old 08-14-2020, 09:48 AM   #14
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Re: PLAY OPTIMAL POKER 2: RANGE CONSTRUCTION

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
Hi Foucault:

So far, I think this is a better book than Voluke I even though I thought Volume I was outstanding. But I have a question.

ON page 110 where Ivan has checked o the flop you write: "The average amount of money that goes into the pot by the river should be roughly the same whether Ivan bets or checks." Won't this sometimes cause the pot to be overbet since there are now only two rounds of betting and not three?

Best wishes,
Mason
Thanks Mason, that means a lot coming from you. And yes - in the paragraph before that one, I do mention that Opal has a small overbetting range on most turns.
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Old 08-21-2020, 01:08 PM   #15
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Re: PLAY OPTIMAL POKER 2: RANGE CONSTRUCTION

Thanks Andrew,

I live in Canada and prefer to purchase books from Chapters Indigo (equivalent to Barnes and Noble in US). I don't see any of your books listed there. Is there a particular reason why?
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Old 08-21-2020, 05:11 PM   #16
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Re: PLAY OPTIMAL POKER 2: RANGE CONSTRUCTION

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Thanks Mason, that means a lot coming from you. And yes - in the paragraph before that one, I do mention that Opal has a small overbetting range on most turns.
Hi Foucault:

I'm still reading the book and it's still excellent. But on page 222 there is either an error or I don't understand something. Perhaps you could clarify.

It says: "Ivan bets most frequently on cards like the 7♥ that complete the flush draw or open-ended straight draw." But the flop is the 976. So, how does the 7 complete any draws and is the conclusion still accurate?

Best wishes,
Mason
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Old 08-22-2020, 09:55 AM   #17
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Re: PLAY OPTIMAL POKER 2: RANGE CONSTRUCTION

Thanks, Mason. When I mentioned correcting typos in the Kindle version, this is the main thing. A few of the image headings incorrectly list the flop as 9 7 6. But the preceding text correctly gives it as 9 7 6, which is what all of the actual results and analysis (including in the improperly labeled images) assume.

Sorry for the confusion. I believe the labels are correct in all versions of the paperback. The e-book on nitcast.com already reflects this correction, and Amazon has had a corrected version of the Kindle book for weeks now - I don't know what is taking them so long to review it.
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Old 08-22-2020, 09:58 AM   #18
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Re: PLAY OPTIMAL POKER 2: RANGE CONSTRUCTION

Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar77 View Post
Thanks Andrew,

I live in Canada and prefer to purchase books from Chapters Indigo (equivalent to Barnes and Noble in US). I don't see any of your books listed there. Is there a particular reason why?
I published the book through Amazon, and the ISBN I got from them is only valid for sales on Amazon. I can sell the e-book elsewhere, but to sell the paperback elsewhere would require, among other things, acquiring a new ISBN. If you don't know what that is, don't worry about it. Long story short, there's some extra expense and hassle required to sell the paperback elsewhere that I haven't yet undertaken. I appreciate this feedback, though - it's helpful knowing that there's interest in buying the book elsewhere. May convince me to take the necessary steps.
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Old 08-22-2020, 04:48 PM   #19
Mason Malmuth
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Re: PLAY OPTIMAL POKER 2: RANGE CONSTRUCTION

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foucault View Post
I published the book through Amazon, and the ISBN I got from them is only valid for sales on Amazon. I can sell the e-book elsewhere, but to sell the paperback elsewhere would require, among other things, acquiring a new ISBN. If you don't know what that is, don't worry about it. Long story short, there's some extra expense and hassle required to sell the paperback elsewhere that I haven't yet undertaken. I appreciate this feedback, though - it's helpful knowing that there's interest in buying the book elsewhere. May convince me to take the necessary steps.
Hi Foucault:

I'm not sure this is correct even though from a publisher's perspective Amazon does some confusing things. Anyway, my understanding is that if you're letting Amazon print the book they can then sell it to other retailers. Of course, you get a lower royalty when they do this, but if there is enough interest in your book Amazon will take care of sales to other sellers.

You may want to check into this because it might be that you did not give Amazon permission to do this (and their rules seem to frequently change).

Best wishes,
Mason
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Old 08-22-2020, 04:52 PM   #20
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Re: PLAY OPTIMAL POKER 2: RANGE CONSTRUCTION

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foucault View Post
Thanks, Mason. When I mentioned correcting typos in the Kindle version, this is the main thing. A few of the image headings incorrectly list the flop as 9 7 6. But the preceding text correctly gives it as 9 7 6, which is what all of the actual results and analysis (including in the improperly labeled images) assume.

Sorry for the confusion. I believe the labels are correct in all versions of the paperback. The e-book on nitcast.com already reflects this correction, and Amazon has had a corrected version of the Kindle book for weeks now - I don't know what is taking them so long to review it.
Hi Foucault:

After posting this I noticed that a couple of pages later, whcxh I read a number of hours later, that the flop did return to two hearts. So, it looked like a type-o to me and that's something I'm very familiar with.

Best wishes,
Mason
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Old 08-25-2020, 10:26 PM   #21
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Re: PLAY OPTIMAL POKER 2: RANGE CONSTRUCTION

Since you are both in this thread, I will ask a few questions.

I've heard reviews and read reviews about POP, notably how it compares to modern poker theory by Acevedo. Everything I've read about POP is good, but I want to ask the author about the level of difficulty in his books and whether my understanding and knowledge of poker is at the level required for me to properly understand everything he covers.

I'm a hobbyist micro stakes grinder, and I use a solver to study and understand poker. I have some limited academic background in statistics and therefore understand most basic poker concepts, but my mathematical knowledge is capped around more complicated algebra and towards calculus. Hopefully Brokos can give me some insight on whether he thinks the first book would be too complicated for me at this point. I had started reading mathematics of poker, but haven't continued much as I've instead focused want actually studying more practical poker theory, and I think hopefully maybe his book will bridge both of these for me.

Is it possible that he would offer a discount to people buying both POP and POP2 when it is published?

Mason I have greatly appreciated your in-depth reviews of various poker books since I started playing poker seriously.

I was able to get my first actual poker books through the 2+2 book deal, but I see that it is now suspended. Can you give me any insight on this, and specifically if it were to become on suspended would I be able to make another account at another site to earn more 2+2 books?
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Old 08-25-2020, 11:14 PM   #22
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Re: PLAY OPTIMAL POKER 2: RANGE CONSTRUCTION

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRUSTtheDRAWCESS View Post
Since you are both in this thread, I will ask a few questions.
Hi Trust:

Since I've now finished reading POP2 I'll go ahead and answer your questions as best I can.

Quote:
I've heard reviews and read reviews about POP, notably how it compares to modern poker theory by Acevedo.
While I consider
Quote:
Modern Poker Theory
to be a good book, in my opinion it does have a few flaws, and thus it's my opinion that Play Optimal Poker 2 is the better book. (Play Optimal Poker 1 is basically a book on Game Theory and Optimal Poker 2 is the book that focuses on poker. My reviews of Modern Poker Theory and Play Optimal Poker 1 can be found here:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...2&postcount=67

Quote:
Everything I've read about POP is good, but I want to ask the author about the level of difficulty in his books and whether my understanding and knowledge of poker is at the level required for me to properly understand everything he covers.
While I think the book that both of the Play Optimal Poker books are well worth reading, be prepared for a slow read that will require a fair amount of thinking.

Quote:
I'm a hobbyist micro stakes grinder, and I use a solver to study and understand poker. I have some limited academic background in statistics and therefore understand most basic poker concepts, but my mathematical knowledge is capped around more complicated algebra and towards calculus. Hopefully Brokos can give me some insight on whether he thinks the first book would be too complicated for me at this point. I had started reading mathematics of poker, but haven't continued much as I've instead focused want actually studying more practical poker theory, and I think hopefully maybe his book will bridge both of these for me.
While the Play Optimal Poker books require slow reading, it's not because of the math. The main reason is that some of the discussion is counter-intuitive because that's the way poker is.

Quote:
Is it possible that he would offer a discount to people buying both POP and POP2 when it is published?
Both books are already published and you can get them on Amazon. As for what the author might do, I can't answer that.

Quote:
Mason I have greatly appreciated your in-depth reviews of various poker books since I started playing poker seriously.
I do my best.

Quote:
I was able to get my first actual poker books through the 2+2 book deal, but I see that it is now suspended. Can you give me any insight on this, and specifically if it were to become on suspended would I be able to make another account at another site to earn more 2+2 books?
You don't earn 2+2 books, you have to buy them. They're all available on Amazon. However, our 2+2 Special Book Deals are still available (if you live in the United States) and you can find them here:

https://www.twoplustwo.com/store/

Also, we try to change these every four to six weeks. So, if you don't see the book you want, it may become available at these discount prices sometime in the future. Also, a complete list of 2+2 books can be found here:

https://www.twoplustwo.com/books/

Best wishes,
Mason
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Old 08-25-2020, 11:35 PM   #23
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Re: PLAY OPTIMAL POKER 2: RANGE CONSTRUCTION

Hi Mason, thank you for the prompt and detailed reply.

What I am referring to with regards to the book deal, is several years back I was able to make a different two plus two account as a Canadian and link it with newly made 888 account.

I then had to earn (pay to 888) X amount of rake. After which I got to pick 5 free poker books that you sent.

Any chance that comes back and I get five new books on a new site?

I've specifically not registered new accounts on poker sites until I feel like I can maximize whatever available incentives are available.

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk
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Old 08-26-2020, 10:22 AM   #24
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Re: PLAY OPTIMAL POKER 2: RANGE CONSTRUCTION

Hi Trust, thanks for your interest in the books (and thanks to Mason for fielding these questions already).

The math is not complicated, nowhere near what you'd find in MoP. Mathematical reasoning is important, but computation is not. I sometimes use algebra to demonstrate the proof of a concept, but even that is not essential if you're willing to take my word for it :-)

As Mason, it's a dense book, but I don't think a lot of background knowledge is required other than rudimentary math (high school algebra is plenty) and poker/hold 'em familiarity. The original POP especially is more about explaining things conceptually than getting into the details. There's more detail in POP 2, but even there the conceptual is front and center.

This is also, I think, the fundamental difference from Modern Poker Theory. I think MPT is a great book. I reference it often for my own playing purposes, and I cite it in POP 2. But MPT emphasizes the details much more than the concepts. You'll get fewer pie charts and more explanation of the "why" in the POP books.

I reduced the price of the POP e-book by 67% when POP 2 came out, so essentially, the answer to your question about a discount is yes. In fact, you get the discount even if you don't buy POP 2 :-)

The paperbacks are only available through Amazon, so I'm not able to offer a unilateral discount on those.
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Old 08-26-2020, 01:31 PM   #25
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Re: PLAY OPTIMAL POKER 2: RANGE CONSTRUCTION

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRUSTtheDRAWCESS View Post
Hi Mason, thank you for the prompt and detailed reply.

What I am referring to with regards to the book deal, is several years back I was able to make a different two plus two account as a Canadian and link it with newly made 888 account.

I then had to earn (pay to 888) X amount of rake. After which I got to pick 5 free poker books that you sent.

Any chance that comes back and I get five new books on a new site?

I've specifically not registered new accounts on poker sites until I feel like I can maximize whatever available incentives are available.

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk
Hi Trust:

I now understand what you meant by earning the books. Unfortunately, those days are over. We wish that wasn't the case but we have no control over it.

Best wishes,
Mason
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