last post for real this time, the following was just too good not to point out!

you've edited the post 3 times now in less than 3 minutes. first it was just:
then it was:
and now it's:
do you know why you keep having to edit your posts? it's because you're so ****ing upset that you're slamming the keyboard as you type then posting it in a fit of rage. uncontrollably upset! hilarious.

i have not mentioned the book nor its price. i also have not spoken for anyone but myself.

as i mentioned in the other thread, before your posts ITT you were one of my favorite posters so little resentment is to be found. nothing i've posted ITT has generated addition sales for the book. you are paranoid and delusional.

just like every drama queen in the world who says 'im done!', you're never ****ing done.

thanks for making this thread more of a shitshow tho with your absolutely useless contributions

probably get a bunch more comments from the peanut gallery now that you cross posted it in a completely different thread, good job

Considering you saying this and claiming one can beat 2k zoom for 10bbs by just reading and working with this book. Since you are the one selling this i assume you claim you can beat it for even a bigger wr?

How much are you willing to spot someone for a hu match? Assuming the person isn't a hu plo reg. Is 10/25 the biggest you would play?

Again, I'm being misquoted. I said anyone who read the book (not just skimming it once, but really studying it) would beat the games. I didn't say 10bb/100. I estimate I'm beating the games for low double digits. Will post more results as I get them, but like I said, people aren't that eager to play me and I'm a bit limited on site selection at the moment due to my location. Hopefully that will be fixed soon.

I already offered a match at 15-30. How many bb/100 I'd lay would depend on various factors and I can't just quote you a number, nor would it be in my best interest to do so.

Very much enjotiythe **** show but why is this in NVG?

Good edits Mason.

You mean NVGB, don't you?

So, I have read Corys book, and I've talked to him in private about what I think was good, bad and could be done to improve the product.

I want to start off by saying that I am:

a) Not a HU-regular
b) Not a short-stacker
c) I would not be interested in playing Cory HU or doing a challenge

I have full respect for his game, and I am sure that especially short I would be smashed in such a format. I also have faith in his coaching abilities after having talked to him for a bit, and no doubt some of his students have gone on to have good results at 2k HUPLO.


What I liked about the book:

I think the short stack material as well as general population work was very good. I think his way of teaching, using a lot of theory and applying rules to form strategies work very well for creating a well balanced and strong strategy when the game tree is smaller.

The book has some great visualisations, I especially liked the way structured preflop ranges over different stack sizes to give an overview and easy comparison between 10, 15, 20, 30bb etc.

It is very dense in information, and I think it is important that anyone who reads it utilizes it as a tool and does not view it as a book you simply read through and expect to learn the stuff. I would view it as a series of coaching sessions where you need to put the work in between the different chapters in order to be able to move further.

Cory is 100% correct about the fact that most people even in the 2kHUPLO pool on stars play very poorly preflop at short stacks. I think he may however disproportionally value preflop skill compared to postflop skill.

What I did not like:

Cory and I definitly have our differences when it comes to the faith and work ethic of the average poker player.

A lot, I would say a majority, of my critisism has been that it requires so much work from the reader to apply this information.

I definitly lack the work ethic to have been able to make the most from it, and I think expecting people who buy the book to run the sims, practice them and learn to apply it in game is very optimistic.

I also think a majority of poker players, even if they were coached by Sauce or someone like Grazvis, would not become winners at 2kPLO, where as Cory disagrees with me on this.

I believe Cory is more than capable enough to coach a mid stakes regular to 2k HU, and in my opinion from reading the posts and talking to him, he belives the book provides a similar value. I disagree with this, having coached a lot of people myself, I believe the interaction and repetition that you get with 1-on-1 or even with a group of people is worlds away from simply working alone with a framework provided from a book.

As the game tree grows, so does the amount of rules and generalisations required to formulate strategies of the game. A lot of the deep stack material I did not like because it is simply not possible to view the game based out of memorized rules once it reaches such a size.

My personal belief is that once you are 100bb Deep SRP, or even 40bb SRP or 100bb 3BP, the game tree is already too big to memorize and generalize a strategy. Strategies need to be derived more out of first principle and not from a somewhat strict framework. I offered to illustrate some spots to Cory which I think proves this very clearly but he didn't really seemed interested to pursue it further so I will just leave it at that, my opinion.

I take some moral issues with the preflop charts showing strategies for other than unopened pots which seems to be becoming the norm in sites TOS. I allerted Cory to the fact that most of these charts are not allowed in PokerStars TOS for instance, and he told me he would clarify this in the updated version of his book. I think charts are pretty rubbish overall in PLO, and I can reach pretty decent results and improvement by simply practicing them off-table instead of using the charts in-game.

What I believe could be improved for me to buy the book:

I had one request, which Cory did not seem to interested in pursuing, which I think would have made the book a very well worth investment for most people looking to play HU.

Because of the memorisation and work required to apply all the dense amounts of information to practice, I suggested Cory add Trainer Files, Links or simply the ranges of each strategy graph he has created as an appendix to the book. The reader could then finish reading a chapter, simply load up the files in either Vision or PLOTrainer and learn to apply the concepts in practice. This would in my opinion, bridge my main issue with the book, which is the issue of implementing what you read.

Cory did not share my opinion on this, as he believed that most people who buy the book will have the motivation and know-how to run the sims themselves and run them through whatever study tool they prefer. Even if this was true, I believe the value of saving the people who purchase these books all of that time, would tremendously improve the product. (To be fair, Cory did offer me the Monker-sims he used to create the book, but perhaps this could be included as standard when you buy it).

Overall conclusion:

Imo better value than most sub-based training video sites and courses (this stuff I believe is more entertainment and people who want to feel like they study but lack the energy to actually study).

If you are looking to invest money in something else than coaching or trainer-products, I believe the book is second to those alternatives in terms of resources.

Good short stack stuff.

Too much information and theories to apply for deeper stack, perhaps I am too synical about the average poker players work ethic and ability to remember stuff (perhaps because Cory obviously has a tremendous work ethic writing these books, while mine is far from tremendous), but I find this close to impossible to implement over 1500 boards, in SRP & 3BP pots, over turns and river lines.

Add the ranges for all spots as an appendix and I would happily pay the $1600. If not, I believe the disconnect between theory and practice is too large to bridge for a vast majority of players, including myself, to be practical.

I wish more people intended to create such content where the intent is not to lure people into affiliates programs or keep them on the hamster wheel and milking them for subscription money.

I don't think everyone who studies the book will beat 2kPLO, I think the statement is a sales pitch and not really founded in reality,

but I also don't think everyone who is coached by the best player in the world will beat 2kPLO so it isn't really a testiment to the book itself.

To be fair to Corys later statement, that anyone who works hard and studies the book, will be able to beat 2k, I belive this is closer to the truth but once you view the book as a rather complicated tool you could make similar claims for something like MonkerSolver which is priced at $400 or something like that. It gives you the possibility to learn a lot of things, but a majority of people can't utilize it to reach high stakes.

My credentials:

Play HSPLO (ytd graph for all tracked stuff so +rep wont come in here calling me a shill for saying something positive about Cory and his book, https://gyazo.com/3be8ad6dbc85474dd4d43d34741a1c3f)
Have coached a bunch of people to HS
Not top 10 in theory or anything to do with poker

Thanks for your thorough and thoughtful response! Yes, we have some substantive disagreements, but I appreciate your time, energy and willingness to give an objective review as you see it.

One disagreement that was not mentioned (possibly because Rahm93 wasn't aware of it) is that I don't believe in tons of memorization. Actually, I excluded exact frequencies on the post flop charts to help myself and other students avoid the trap. The way I've used them is to look for trends and heuristics that tell me something universal about optimal play. In the book, I tried to provide the heuristics I generated (see the free chapter for an example) as well as give the reader all the materials to generate their own.

Also, thanks for giving me credit for actually believing what I say regarding people beating high stakes. It's certainly possible that I am incorrect about it, but it is not something I've said just to draw attention to the book. I believe that with the right systems, a motivated person can do a lot more than most expect.

that was kind of you to throw OP a bone w the whole buy/read-on-contingency scheme, but i'd like to point out i've never once taken the position that OP's book contains *nothing* of value, because 1) i haven't read it, and 2) that would be silly.

almost all of my criticisms of OP stem from what OP has posted or not posted itt.

so this is pretty much what i expect, it's a waste of time/money/resources from a bummy ass reg. buyers beware the FREE MARKET

Rahm93, thanks for the review.

I've stayed out of this so far. Some of Cory's claims went too far in one direction and some of +reps went too far in the opposite. And to disagree with one of them made it seem I would be implicitedly agreeing with the other when in fact I simultaneously disagreed with both Cory and +rep. Rahm93 has provide a voice of reason in the middle.

thanks rahm!

I'm very interested in the book but as a low stakes player, $1500 is just WAY out of the ballpark for me. If you could bring it down to something far more reasonable - as in under $100 - I'd buy a copy.

Check out my latest video on RIO where I demonstrate some of the exploits discussed in the book against a typical 2k zoom stars reg.

As I stated earlier in the thread, the problem with making the book very cheap is that the players who could only pay $100 for it, won't be able to use it because it's far too advanced.

that sounds like a really weird take

I watched the video and you made so many postflop mistakes that I had to quit in the middle of video. Few preflop mistakes also.

Those were simply high level exploits that a lowly wizard like yourself could never comprehend without Cory's help. Maybe he will offer you a super exclusive promotional deal on the book + an in depth training package? The fact this thread is still up is a testament to how far 2+2 has fallen over the years. I must take some solace in the fact that it appears the verbal diarrhea passing as a sales pitch has earned him exactly as many sales as he deserves

You should write a book mate.

So I'm assuming you've run multiple short stacked sims, nodelocked to represent a player opening way too wide preflop and who is overly aggressive postflop? Barring that one would struggle to assess the implications of an opponent playing a wildly suboptimal strategy.

who's graph is that? impressive

Rahm95 who did the review of book in Post #232 of this thread. He listed graph in his credentials.

You were trying to be ironic, but actually this is true lol. I watched the video and all the preflop "mistakes" are exploitive adjustments I've worked out ahead of time and I explained pretty much all the postflop exploitive adjustments based on his stats. If only there was a book where all of this information was laid out

Echoing Rahm95's post, trainer files/ranges would make this a much more attractive buy at this price point.

Okay, that can be arranged. It will take some time, but I can do this and share them as part of the third edition (which the previous purchasers will also receive).

LMAO at his Yosemite Sam levels of rage. Classic.