Is there any way I can ignore specific 2+2 members, so I won't have to come across and read their pathetic posts?

Listen. We know you want everyone to post their screen names and results. We know why you ask for this. But saying it over and over again, every time their name is mentioned, isn't likely to make it happen.

Well do you agree?

No they don't need to post them.

However, if you are interested in getting coaching from someone you can ask and I'm sure some coachs will provide that information and some won't. If that is what interests you the most and is most important to you, well then go with the coach who has a great PTR.

Personally, I'd be more interested in getting references from previous clients and reviewing any strat posts they've made or videos they've done. Becuase, as has been stated over and over again; being a good player does not make someone a good coach.

Okay, now that we've established that, stop posting all over 2+2 demanding people post their graphs all the time, please and thank-you.

Well how can we tell whether the coaching is worth anything then?There is a related thread on the coaching forum.

I disagree.Everybody's got mates who can provide references and if youre not winning you are in all probability making strategy mistakes which will be passed on in coaching.

"We've" established nothing.You've given your opinion in an overbearing manner that's all.

You completely and conveniently ignored the fact that I said you can always ask a prospective coach for their info and go with coaches who'll provide it. Again, if it's something that clearly concerns you so much that you post over and over about it; if a coach won't provide you their SN/Graph clearly that’s not a coach for you! Go with the one who will. It's really not that complicated.

Yes I saw the thread in the coaching forum and also noticed that as far they've ignored you're latest troll post in there.

While this is a possibility, I think if you hang around 2+2, Leggo, DC, CR long enough, you get somewhat of an idea who knows their sh*t and who is a respected poster and who's opinions are valued by the masses. Failing that, I would personally solicit the opinions of other forum posters who's opinions I value or if you have other poker friends, ask them who they've used. Essentially this comes down to a lot of basic common sense and if someone doesn’t have enough common sense to do some background work on a perspective coach, well they they’ll likely never be a winner anyhow, so it’s best they lose their rolls as fast as possible and find a new hobby/profession.

It's sort of like looking for a good Garage/Mechanic to take your car to. You should check with the Better Business Bureau, ask your friends/family/co-workers/classmates who they've gone to in past and who has done a good job and been honest, etc. Maybe start off with taking your car there for an oil change and see how they customer service is, etc, and then move onto more serious repairs. Again, as always whether its coaching or otherwise, the onus is on the person seeking the service to determine if the person/business they're going to is credible and provides a good value for their money.

On top of (moving back to graphs), even if all coaches posted their SN/Graphs, it still doesn't address the issue that some winning players are NOT going to be good coaches; while some players who are break-even or losing at their current stakes might be excellent coaches because they understand all of the theory and are good teachers, etc, but can't apply it themselves in game conditions for whatever reason.

Perhaps with the previous post I didn't hash it all out, but I've certainly addressed many points I think with this. Yes, I was overbearing. Because, like many members of 2+2, I am generally sick of seeing you troll/rant on and on about this. But, hey whatever, if it really turns your crank, keep going.

Having said that, I’d push 2+2 hard to come up with a filter as a poster above has suggested, so that we don’t have to read posts from people who just rant on and on about the same things.

bigblue1ca

Once again you have failed to be civil.The OP in the thread about 'Predatory coaching',cftw, expressed the reasons why coaches should be open and transparent very well.Part of the package here is coaching by Improva.He should publish his results so we can get some idea of what it's worth.

he said "Jerry Yang" LOL

I rather clearly laid out practical options for you or anyone else to help make an infomed decision in selecting a poker coach; if that's not civil so be it.

Speaking of civility, you have chosen to not ackowledged anything I've said and merely continued on with your mantra.

I read the OPs post in the coaching thread, so be it, that's his opinion. However, off the top of my head, you have been going on about this issue long before he made his post, so I'm discussing it with you, not him.

The bottom line is, if you want a graph, ask for one. If you don't get it, take your business elsewhere. Lastly, what does a graph ultimately prove about someone's ability to coach? It may prove they are a winner or a loser, but it does not help define their coaching ability.

It's like a bunch of school girls fighting in here. You can't even have a decent thread anymore without it devolving in to a flamewar. Pitiful.

Actually, I wouldn't call it a flame war at all; at least based on real flame wars I've seen over the years. I'd just like Cwocwoc to answer my last question I asked and I'm done with it. If he chooses to answer it great, if not, so be it. That's his right of course. Just like I believe he has the right to ask a prospective coach for their graph because he values that information and conversely coaches have the right not to provide it, but at the risk of losing him as a client.

Now if this was a flame war, this would devolve into belligerence, threats, etc, which I'm certain it won't.

Getting back on topic, who here has actually purchased Improva's book (sorry pirated copies don't count) and his coaching? Was it a good value for your dollar, did it help your game, was he helpful?

Can we stop this non sense and actually start comparing the books themselves?

Ex: Easy game Volume 2 to Poker Puzzle, etc.

this made me lol



can anyone explain to me how anyones winrate has anything to do with ones quality as a coach? i know many people that, know/understand/can explain concepts well, that are effective/ that work etc, yet are unable to apply them to their own game. ever heard of the phrase "do as i say, not as i do" imo, this is very applicable in poker. a lot of people away from the table can rationalize the game, yet sitting at the table they cant for whatever reason.
i dont care if a player is a winner or not, if their concepts/teachings help me win in the long run, i could care a less if they cant follow their own advice..
i get some of the posters comments in this thread about ones advice and how it correlates to ones winrate, however i believe they are looking at this in a somewhat narrowminded way.

Idk if it's been mentioned but his appearance on DC's podcast was pretty cool. It's basically a three hour coaching session from him. Whether or not you know his screen name doesn't change the fact that he is a great teacher and knows his stuff.

In the first episode he gives a brief description of his introduction to the game. It seems like there is a misconception on the forums about him going busto or some nonsense.

Listen to the podcast and therein lies the explanation for his jump from 1000NL to 200NL. If some of you don't have access to the podcast I will summarize it for you if it's requested. I just thought I would defend the guy bc he seems to be taking some unwarranted heat around here lately. The guy has a great poker mind no doubt. Just listen to him.

By his own admission, he went busto.
http://www.pokersavvy.com/plus/Hi-Im-Oliver

I don't question that he is articulate. I wonder how he went from dead money to noted poker authority in a matter of weeks. It seems unusual. Dozens of smart 2+2 regs have been working hard for years and never made it passed micros. (See here, here and here.)

I know you are just trolling but.. you don't have to be dead money to lose a bankroll. Just PTR RolandThetrault on FTP. I know that a while back, before PTR ever existed he bust his whole roll too. So did a tons of sucessful midstakes & highstakes players.

According to Improva on the podcast, he had alot of friends that played poker seriously while he was at uni and used to help them with EV calcs and stuff since he was a math major. He said his friends constantly talked poker strat, even when out at bars and stuff so even tho he didn't play he was exposed to poker on a daily basis

After uni he opened a successful business and only then, years later did he start to play. One of his friends he still contacted over the years convinced him to give it a shot bc of his strong math background. Since he had a couple stacks laying around from his business, he went straight to 5/10 and just played ABC TAG on Party.

Once the game evolved and he felt like his edge was lessened, he dropped down to 1/2 to work on his game before moving back up.

Unless he lied on the podcast, he never made mention of going busto once on the show. So obviously someone has it twisted, Improva or the rumor mill on the Interwebs.

Improva's book is ok but he should stick his cards and the table and out his screen name so we can see how good he is and whether he's playing regularly.I'd expect that of any coach.

I don't really get the point of all the people trolling around and dickwaving who knows better that one doesnt know although most of you dont know Oliver at all.

There are so many people judging / assuming / trolling while noone is really dealing with OP.

Is the book worth its money?

Yes, it is. It is worth way more in my honest opinion.

I started working with Improva 9 months ago and in the past months I progressed the most as a poker player. Back in June I was playing NL50 and NL100. My goal for end 2009 was to play regularly at NL400. I exceeded my goal and managed to play a mix of games between NL400 and NL1k in December!

If you are looking for a coach, that tells you moves, I assume you will find coaches that fit you better. Oliver is the kind of guy that teaches by asking. So you will be in the guided duty of developing a mindset / a basic understanding / new ideas on how to beat the games you play in.

I had several coaches before but my personal breakthrough happened to coincide with my coaching by Improva.

So if you are like me, and are more the Danielsan type, that is looking for Mr. Myagi, I can recommend Oliver.

If anyone wants to know more about Oliver, feel free to PM me.

BTW look in the chat box during that dc video u will see improvas screen name

Keep reading ur Ken Warren Poker books u got at the b&n sidewalk sale for $1.99

Ah, so you have already read and paid for the book.

I assume you asked these questions during your coaching with Oliver? His ebook is only available to paying customers as part of a coaching package, unless I'm mistaken he does not sell it separate (if you did pay for it this way please correct me).

How did you find the book complemented this part of the package you paid for?
Did you feel that you got good value for money for what you paid for?
Did you let Oliver know how you felt about the value for money during the coaching sessions that you paid for to get the book?
During the coaching sessions that you received (since you paid for the book) were you able to point out any flaws or gaps in the understanding? What was Oliver's response?

Lol. +1

anyone know if this is his real SN?