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Old 06-06-2015, 04:51 AM   #1
avatar77
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Donkey Poker - Crushing Low Stakes Live NLH

I noticed that Steve Selbrede has another new book out

Donkey Poker

I thought his book 'Beat the Donks' is one of the better books out there for live NL Holdem. Does anyone know if this is actually a new book or a rehash of Beat the Donks?
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Old 06-08-2015, 06:57 PM   #2
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Re: Donkey Poker - Crushing Low Stakes Live NLH

I'm looking for the same answers that you are. I enjoyed Beat The Donks as well, and am hoping this is a follow up and not a rehash!
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Old 06-08-2015, 09:22 PM   #3
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Re: Donkey Poker - Crushing Low Stakes Live NLH

I haven't read any of his books as of yet, but enough people have said they are good to have gained my interest. I've looked at the TOC and it looks different to BtD.

This new book looks to be the first of two volumes - the first on preflop, and the second covering postflop.

I've just purchased it and will post more details when it arrives
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Old 06-09-2015, 12:04 AM   #4
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Re: Donkey Poker - Crushing Low Stakes Live NLH

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Originally Posted by StrtOvR View Post
I haven't read any of his books as of yet, but enough people have said they are good to have gained my interest. I've looked at the TOC and it looks different to BtD.

This new book looks to be the first of two volumes - the first on preflop, and the second covering postflop.

I've just purchased it and will post more details when it arrives
Awesome, keep us informed.
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Old 06-09-2015, 03:59 PM   #5
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Re: Donkey Poker - Crushing Low Stakes Live NLH

I am under the impression that it is a more thorough book than his original Beat the Donks. I am sure he covers a lot of the same concepts but in a more thorough way over two volumes.

I just find it a bit odd that he does not have a website nor does he take the time to promote his books on the various poker sites... he's not making it easy for people to find his books which I guess is not a bad thing for players but maybe not so much for his book sales.
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Old 06-09-2015, 10:33 PM   #6
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Re: Donkey Poker - Crushing Low Stakes Live NLH

I've been thinking the same thing myself. I was wondering if he'd participated here at all, but couldn't find anything in previous threads. Tbh, I haven't found a great deal of info on some quick searches that I've run.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for the books to be dispatched. When they get here, I'll go through them and post some details on how they compare.
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Old 06-20-2015, 09:04 PM   #7
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Re: Donkey Poker - Crushing Low Stakes Live NLH

I'm surprised he only recommends buying in for 50 BB instead of the usual 150.
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Old 07-12-2015, 01:18 PM   #8
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Re: Donkey Poker - Crushing Low Stakes Live NLH

Got this from Amazon and I would like to print the final Starting Hand Chart from the book. Do you know of any way to do that since Amazon doesn't allow one to print pages? Thank you
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Old 07-12-2015, 10:47 PM   #9
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Re: Donkey Poker - Crushing Low Stakes Live NLH

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Originally Posted by maidenguy View Post
Got this from Amazon and I would like to print the final Starting Hand Chart from the book. Do you know of any way to do that since Amazon doesn't allow one to print pages? Thank you
Use google to figure out how to take a screen shot from whatever device you are using. Crop it nice and pretty. Print it. Probably can't do this from an actual kindle, so use the kindle cloud reader on your PC.
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Old 07-13-2015, 09:18 AM   #10
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Re: Donkey Poker - Crushing Low Stakes Live NLH

I did just that. Took a screenshot and printed it , Thanks
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Old 07-13-2015, 01:40 PM   #11
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Re: Donkey Poker - Crushing Low Stakes Live NLH

I was going to suggest using the Kindle app on your tablet and then doing the same thing. Do a screen shot.

I just got my copy of this book in the mail - how do you like it so far?
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Old 07-25-2015, 03:35 PM   #12
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Re: Donkey Poker - Crushing Low Stakes Live NLH

I really liked the book. I was just curious, for others who have read it, if they liked his idea of starting with 50BB.
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Old 07-27-2015, 05:59 PM   #13
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Re: Donkey Poker - Crushing Low Stakes Live NLH

I'm a little confuse if I buy the "Donkey Poker" or "Beat The Donks". I'm gonna start to play 1/2 live and I was thinking that one of these books should help me a bit.
What book should I choose?
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:35 PM   #14
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Re: Donkey Poker - Crushing Low Stakes Live NLH

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I'm a little confuse if I buy the "Donkey Poker" or "Beat The Donks". I'm gonna start to play 1/2 live and I was thinking that one of these books should help me a bit.
What book should I choose?
I'd go with Beat The Donks to start. All hand histories came from live 1/2.
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Old 07-28-2015, 01:37 PM   #15
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Re: Donkey Poker - Crushing Low Stakes Live NLH

Is here anyone who read the two books to tell the differences?
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Old 07-31-2015, 07:44 PM   #16
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Re: Donkey Poker - Crushing Low Stakes Live NLH

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I'm surprised he only recommends buying in for 50 BB instead of the usual 150.
What reason does he give for this?
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Old 07-31-2015, 07:51 PM   #17
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Re: Donkey Poker - Crushing Low Stakes Live NLH

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I really liked the book. I was just curious, for others who have read it, if they liked his idea of starting with 50BB.
This sounds so patently absurd I cant imagine this book is of any real value. Most live games end up pretty deep anyway, so all you're doing is delaying the inevitable. You're going to get it allin and double up that 50BB so why not do it when you have 100BB.
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Old 08-04-2015, 05:13 AM   #18
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Re: Donkey Poker - Crushing Low Stakes Live NLH

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This sounds so patently absurd I cant imagine this book is of any real value. Most live games end up pretty deep anyway, so all you're doing is delaying the inevitable. You're going to get it allin and double up that 50BB so why not do it when you have 100BB.
Actually in Vegas 1-2 NL games I'd say that most live games don't end up pretty deep unless maybe you're playing at the Venetian or maybe Caesars Palace. This is why I'm not sold on the idea that the softest 1-2 NL games are the most profitable. Often a table with a lot of really bad players will have a lot of short stacks.

But yeah I agree that it sounds absurd and that better players should buy in for the max. I had a hard time believing my eyes when I saw the recommendation to buy in for 50 BB.
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Old 08-04-2015, 05:46 AM   #19
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Re: Donkey Poker - Crushing Low Stakes Live NLH

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What reason does he give for this?
I didn't get the book. I only downloaded the free sample on Kindle lol. But in that sample he does give reasons why. To be fair, it sounds like he hints that a great player should buy in for the max, but then again he also admits that he tends to buy in for 50 BB (which shocked me).

He thinks he doesn't "need a particularly deep stack to generate sufficient implied odds for speculative hands."

He also says:

A smaller stack makes it easier for him to play disciplined, tight poker


Some people will see it as weakness when he buys in short


He can size raises to make set mining unprofitable for opponents who call his raises to set mine


Bad players who call loose PF for implied odds (with speculative hands) won't have those implied odds as often against him


His stack size will usually increase which means he will widen his range during the session which can help him when his opponents still assume he is playing tight


Postflop play is simpler with a shorter stack (He uses pocket aces postflop as an example of playing too aggressively postflop and having it backfire when you have a bigger stack; with a smaller stack he will lose but not enough to counter his winnings)


Position is not as important when stacks are shorter; with deeper stacks you will have to play every round carefully


If you're not that good of a player, a deep stack will only be more costly to you because you'll lose more when you make mistakes. Stacks that are not deep give those players less variance. Deeper stacks require more skill which these players won't have.




This is all under section 1.4 titled "Stack Sizes: Choosing Your Buy-in." I don't own the book so I don't know what he says later on.
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Old 08-04-2015, 05:54 AM   #20
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Re: Donkey Poker - Crushing Low Stakes Live NLH

I actually do think that some of the weaker players should not buy in for the max so quickly. And it can make sense if you have bankroll issues or tilt issues with 150 BB stacks. But I'm not thrilled with the reasoning above. I'm tempted to criticize that but I'm curious what others think.
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Old 08-04-2015, 10:29 AM   #21
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Re: Donkey Poker - Crushing Low Stakes Live NLH

Thanks Steve,

Interesting list, kinda feels like he is talking to good-ish but not great players, where buying in short can protect them somewhat . I think if we can have a clear skill edge over the table, all the arguments can be countered.
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Old 08-05-2015, 01:39 AM   #22
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Re: Donkey Poker - Crushing Low Stakes Live NLH

It seems like buying in short magnifies good preflop decisions while concealing postflop deficiencies. Rarely do you get it all in preflop with a full 100 BB stack, but with a shorter stack, hands tend to play themselves after the flop.

Also, an argument could be made that a 50 BB buy in could be smart if you are unsure of the quality of the competition. Maybe stick to a short stack for a couple orbits and then rebuy to a full stack once you have a feel for the table. If you're a good player, then you should obviously just make a full buy in right off the bat, but if you think you might not play optimally after the flop against unknowns, this could be a reasonable strategy.
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Old 08-06-2015, 01:49 AM   #23
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Re: Donkey Poker - Crushing Low Stakes Live NLH

The problem with 50BB is that it puts you in really dumbass spots on the flop where you're basically having to just jam with any equity. You have $100 with AKo, you raise $15 and get 2 callers, the flop is 237, what do you do? Or you raise QJo OTB and the flop is 56Q. I dont agree that your effective stack is 50BB on average. Sure fish buy in short, but eventually they get in some big multiway pot and one of them wins and is sittin on 300BB now. Those big multiway pots are the pots you want to be in with your suited connectors and small PP's, which are precisely the kinds of hands you cant raise or call preflop with 50BB in your stack. It's just all around bad bad bad. Play deep vs fish, play as deep as you can.
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Old 08-09-2015, 07:31 PM   #24
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Re: Donkey Poker - Crushing Low Stakes Live NLH

The extremely detailed starting hand analysis which takes up most of this book is quite interesting. Though I don't necessarily agree with some of his conclusions, it did get me thinking. I don't regret the purchase at all.
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Old 08-10-2015, 08:11 AM   #25
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Re: Donkey Poker - Crushing Low Stakes Live NLH

Cliffs:

Play Poker Like the Bots, by Phil Botmuth.
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