If mental fatigue only affects your coordination, reflexes and timing, how do you explain interrogation techniques, or even the existence of the idea of interrogating somebody? What reason would you attribute to people making false confessions, when they know the right answer and that giving the wrong answer carries serious repercussions that they are aware of?

Come on? That's not what I'm talking about. No one is advocating that it's good to stay awake for three days.

MM

So when somebody is tired and makes a poor decision at the poker table, how is that any different than if they are tired and make a poor decision in another situation? I'm not saying poker should be treated like a sport that requires you to be in great shape and at your best during a competition, but like any other decision making, it's affected by your mood and perspective at the moment. You may be in a game where you are simply not capable of making the kind of errors that your opponents can justify, but this doesn't mean that your decision making abilities are not deteriorating due to fatigue or bad dietary choices, even if this deterioration isn't enough to have much impact on your expectation. In a game where you are the better player by far, you may not have to make any difficult decisions and in this situation your mindset and physical state would be inconsequential. If your edge is small and you are facing a lot of decisions that you need to think through, being hungry or tired reduces your ability to maintain a logically accountable, detached perspective which helps to prevent you from rationalizing decisions for the sake of satisfying emotional whims.

So what's your point? You seem to be saying exactly what I've been saying and that's if you're a good player and have a high expectation in a particular game this will be true whether you're tired or not since poker has a small execution component (where things like speed, timing and coordination are important) and a large knowledge component.

You also seem to be saying that in tough games where your expectation is small at best, it will still be small if you're tired. And that's the way it should be.

Best wishes,
Mason

I can only assume you know very little or have very little respect for the focusing effect of meditation, for example.

Why do you feel the need for cheap shot non sequiturs?

If you're playing an athletic sport where the execution component is high (and this is where things like speed, timing, and coordination come in) then I'll take your word for it that "the focusing effect of meditation" can be of much value. But in poker, which is a game driven by knowledge and not by execution, it's my opinion that meditation and focusing should have little value.

In Real Poker Psychology the subject of meditation is not addressed in any way. But there is a chapter called "Focus" and it's dismissed as an idea that has little value in poker.

Why not? You insulted me. But more importantly. Whether it's a hot shower, toothpaste, or something else somehow related to gratitude, it won't help you to play your poker hands better. But increasing your understanding of all things poker, and this includes the strategic concepts that govern play, will certainly do just that.

MM

Thanks for your responses Mason, I really enjoyed and learnt a lot from "Real Poker Psychology" which I think is an excellent book, and am a big fan of this site and I have also really enjoyed and learnt a lot from the books 2+2 has published.

While I agree that past the point of basic well being and comfort, diet and exercise wont help you play any better, I do still believe that ignoring these needs can cause people to play substantially worse, for the same reason that people make mistakes in an interrogation.

I also agree that becoming an expert at poker is the only way to truly get better at poker and have better results, but, in my experience, your level of expertise needs to be much higher than your opponents to be able to compensate for having to endure distractions such as hunger, fatigue or a bad mindset.

I believe that a relative expert can play while hungry, tired and in a bad mood, but that it is a significant mistake to do so unless you have a very clear and substantial edge.

Hi Thrust:

One thing for sure. Proper diet, good sleep habits, exercise, and so on is good for you. So there's no reason not to try to do this stuff.

As for poker, to be an expert, which is what most of us who participate here strive for, "your level of expertise needs to be much higher than your opponents" anyway. So again, this is another argument as why the real answer is knowledge of all things poker and this of course includes the strategic concepts that govern play.

Glad you enjoyed the book.

Best wishes,
Mason

I was going through the pages of threads I had never seen and I came across a LOT devoted to the Cardner/Malmuth discussion. It is almost like there should be a containment thread.