Quote:
Originally Posted by sisyphusonroids
I get a That. However, the chapter suggests something that cannot be put into practice. It says (simplified): 2:1 (bluff to value) if 3 streets of value and 1:1 if 2 streets of value... for our flop betting range.
To give an oversimplified example... assume on the flop of Ks9c3h that our range is 9h9s, KhJc, QhTh/Th8h. That’s it. Ok. Now we decide we probably want 3 streets of value with 99 and two streets of value with KJ. When we have 99, we will want to bet both of our bluff combos. When we have KJ, we will only want to bet one of our bluff combos.
That’s good in theory, but it’s impossible in practice. Why? Bc when we are in the hand with T8... do we bet it or not? You have no idea (based on what’s in the chapter)... the answer of “well, if you have 99 then yes. If you have KJ then no” isn’t actionable... because you have neither... you have T8!!!.... if you bet it, you’re overbluffing for when you have KJ. If you check it, you’re underbluffing for when you have 99.
Disclaimer: yes, I know that this example is too simplistic and has too few overall combos to play multimstreet. The principle problem is easily described however.
Unfortunately, I don't like the terms "value bet" or "bluff" much anymore. I still think these sections are useful for emphasizing how aggressively you can bet weak hands when there are many streets left to act, and how most of your betting range needs to be strong hands when you're on the river, but the terms "value bet" and "bluff bet" stop being useful once you get relatively good at NLHE (at least form a theoretical standpoint).
But keep in mind this book is pretty old at this point, and looking at bets as "value bets" or "bluff bets" is as older than NLHE itself.
The newer book is much more updated in this regard of how to tell whether to bet or not, and what size to use. It specifically addresses how the terms "value bet" and "bluff bet" don't work in much more detail than here.
I'm not trying to get you to buy another book as I get it sucks being told "the in depth answer to your questions lie in another book," but unfortunately I think that's largely the case.
P.S. Whether you'd bet Th8h or check it on the flop really just depends on your overall range strength relative to your opponents, and if your range is reasonably strong you'll want to bet it because it has super robust equity in the form of 3-to-a-flush and 3-to-a-straight while not having any showdown equity. So in practice if I opened with Th8h and one of the blinds called I'd always CB this hand without doing any calculation.