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Old 01-24-2019, 10:12 AM   #1
pcarfan
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Ed MILLER’S ‘The course’ or ‘Small stakes NLH’ for Vegas 1-2 NL

I see ‘the course’ recommended here for low limit live play. I loved “Beat the Donks’, which helped my game tremendously.

Course was published in April, 2015, but I see Small stakes NLH published feb/2016. The latter is co-authored by Mehta and Flynn too

Which of these two book should I get?

I have “Small Stakes Hold 'em: Winning Big with Expert Play” by Ed Miller published in 2004. Is it worth reading that again? I am doing fairly well after reading “Beat the Donks” and don’t want to go back to old strategies. I’dont Remember a specific thing from the book, as I read about a dozen books starting out and can’t recall which book taught me what (Brunson, Harrington etc etc)...

Thanks!
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Old 01-26-2019, 08:53 PM   #2
jjb511
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Re: Ed MILLER’S ‘The course’ or ‘Small stakes NLH’ for Vegas 1-2 NL

The Course > Beat the Donks.
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Old 01-26-2019, 09:15 PM   #3
DafarginNuts
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Re: Ed MILLER’S ‘The course’ or ‘Small stakes NLH’ for Vegas 1-2 NL

The beat the donks series is three books. Very insightful. Has numerous stats as well comparing online to live
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Old 01-27-2019, 12:13 PM   #4
pcarfan
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Re: Ed MILLER’S ‘The course’ or ‘Small stakes NLH’ for Vegas 1-2 NL

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Originally Posted by jjb511 View Post
The Course > Beat the Donks.
Did you read both? You play $1-2 live?

Thank you so much...
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Old 01-27-2019, 12:16 PM   #5
pcarfan
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Re: Ed MILLER’S ‘The course’ or ‘Small stakes NLH’ for Vegas 1-2 NL

Quote:
Originally Posted by DafarginNuts View Post
The beat the donks series is three books. Very insightful. Has numerous stats as well comparing online to live
I didn’t know that the same author published a different 3 series book until yesterday.

Those three are the Donkey poker series. Beat the Donks was stand alone and older...

I am thinking of getting volume 2 and if good, 3 as well, of Donkey poker...but only after my next Vegas trip in 4 weeks. Don’t want to jam my brain and cause paralysis by analysis in the mean time. My current game is good enough until then...

Thanks!

Last edited by pcarfan; 01-27-2019 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 01-27-2019, 12:22 PM   #6
pcarfan
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Re: Ed MILLER’S ‘The course’ or ‘Small stakes NLH’ for Vegas 1-2 NL

To know where I’m coming from...Beat the Donks helped me understand typical Vegas players...

I was over-analyzing...assuming they know what they were doing. Working on my image, trying to figure out what they think I have etc...that book showed I was out playing myself. Most play ABC poker and most have no clue what’s happening or happened around the table - absolutely clueless.

Once I realized the mind set of a rec $1-2 player or even Vegas regulars, it got so much easier.
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Old 01-27-2019, 10:27 PM   #7
DafarginNuts
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Re: Ed MILLER’S ‘The course’ or ‘Small stakes NLH’ for Vegas 1-2 NL

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcarfan View Post
To know where I’m coming from...Beat the Donks helped me understand typical Vegas players...

I was over-analyzing...assuming they know what they were doing. Working on my image, trying to figure out what they think I have etc...that book showed I was out playing myself. Most play ABC poker and most have no clue what’s happening or happened around the table - absolutely clueless.

Once I realized the mind set of a rec $1-2 player or even Vegas regulars, it got so much easier.
True there was a separate stand alone book on beat the donks. Havent read it though
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Old 01-28-2019, 08:44 AM   #8
pcarfan
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Re: Ed MILLER’S ‘The course’ or ‘Small stakes NLH’ for Vegas 1-2 NL

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Originally Posted by DafarginNuts View Post
True there was a separate stand alone book on beat the donks. Havent read it though
Have you read the three donkey series books? And what did you think of them separately?

Thanks
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Old 02-09-2019, 12:19 PM   #9
pcarfan
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Re: Ed MILLER’S ‘The course’ or ‘Small stakes NLH’ for Vegas 1-2 NL

I ended up ordering volume II of the donkey series...hopefully it has more info than the same author’s book from 2 years prior.
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Old 02-13-2019, 01:57 AM   #10
the pleasure
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Re: Ed MILLER’S ‘The course’ or ‘Small stakes NLH’ for Vegas 1-2 NL

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Originally Posted by pcarfan View Post
I ended up ordering volume II of the donkey series...hopefully it has more info than the same author’s book from 2 years prior.
let us know how it is

also the course is for FR and the other is for 6 max i thought?
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Old 02-15-2019, 10:05 AM   #11
pcarfan
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Re: Ed MILLER’S ‘The course’ or ‘Small stakes NLH’ for Vegas 1-2 NL

I’ve had a few hours and my initial impression -

It’s not as revolutionary as “Beat the Donks”, but definitely many concepts that will help, many that makes you think and many you won’t agree with...

He has a summary of volume 1 (preflop) and is based on quantitative analysis (like almost every concept in ‘Beat the Donks’), But this volume 2 is more conceptual. But most aspects definitely catered to Vegas 1-2NL.

A beginner will get a whole lot out of this...but like I said most rec players like me should gain at least a few tidbits.

So, a good book only shadowed by the amazing ‘Beat the Donks’ written by the same author. But, of the few low limit live game books I’ve read, this clearly stands above them (Jonathan Little and a couple of others). Haven’t read “The Course”.

P.S: Most books labels each Villian and suggests how to play with each type - to me this basically boils down to, if you want him to fold and knows he will fold then bet/raise, if he won’t then don’t etc.
When filtered out, most advice presumes villains actions based on labels we’ve given them...duh!
This guy studied the players and when you don’t have enough data, still shows you how a typical Vegas low limit player plays...powerful data (even though most of volume 2 is not Data based - at least based on years of experience)

Last edited by pcarfan; 02-15-2019 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 02-18-2019, 02:45 AM   #12
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Re: Ed MILLER’S ‘The course’ or ‘Small stakes NLH’ for Vegas 1-2 NL

so theres a preflop section?

can you list the book ? is it volume II?
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Old 02-18-2019, 03:59 PM   #13
pcarfan
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Re: Ed MILLER’S ‘The course’ or ‘Small stakes NLH’ for Vegas 1-2 NL

Quote:
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so theres a preflop section?

can you list the book ? is it volume II?
He has a section on pre-flop and published his starting hand recommendations. Very different from his suggestions in 'Beat the Donks'...yes, vol 2

I think I can say this...he took a 360 when it comes to pre-flop limping. In 'Beat the Donks' he was against it. In this he recommends limping - a lot of limping. From what I gather, he says that because these games have very low PFR, that many limps will go through to make it positive EV. But the typical limping stuff like suited connectors, low pair but he includes a heck of a lot of them...and even two gappers in late position.

I don't buy it entirely ... He admits his live game data is very limited.

Unfortunately, the whole of vol 2 relies on this pre-flop assumption.

He is basically giving strategy for a complete beginner...he in fact says, his various recommendations are not totally ideal, but r given for newbies to make it easier to play the game.
P.S: If you buy volume 1(pre-flop) or 2 (post-flop, with pre-flop summery), I would love to discuss it further.

Last edited by pcarfan; 02-18-2019 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 03-05-2019, 12:15 AM   #14
todduf98
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Re: Ed MILLER’S ‘The course’ or ‘Small stakes NLH’ for Vegas 1-2 NL

I have both Volume 2 (Post Flop) and Volume 3 (Hand Reading) of Selbrede's books. I have found both to be of value. I read Volume 2 for the first time about a year ago, then read both of Janda's book's and then went back an re-read both volumes again. I was surprised how much more I picked up after having read the much more theoretical books (the additional playing time probably helped as well)

As for Ed Miller's The Course I found to be very helpful as well. I am currently re-reading it right now.

Other books I have found relevant to $1-2 live no-limit include:

Millers Playing the Player and Miller's How to Read Hands at No Limit.
Johnathan Little's Small Stakes Poker Cash Games.

For perspective I only play live $1-2 no-limit and started playing a little over a year ago after not playing for about a decade.
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Old 03-06-2019, 08:40 AM   #15
pcarfan
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Re: Ed MILLER’S ‘The course’ or ‘Small stakes NLH’ for Vegas 1-2 NL

Quote:
Originally Posted by todduf98 View Post
I have both Volume 2 (Post Flop) and Volume 3 (Hand Reading) of Selbrede's books. I have found both to be of value. I read Volume 2 for the first time about a year ago, then read both of Janda's book's and then went back an re-read both volumes again. I was surprised how much more I picked up after having read the much more theoretical books (the additional playing time probably helped as well)

As for Ed Miller's The Course I found to be very helpful as well. I am currently re-reading it right now.

Other books I have found relevant to $1-2 live no-limit include:

Millers Playing the Player and Miller's How to Read Hands at No Limit.
Johnathan Little's Small Stakes Poker Cash Games.

For perspective I only play live $1-2 no-limit and started playing a little over a year ago after not playing for about a decade.
This is very helpful. Do u think u can rank them or give them scores from 0-10?
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Old 03-06-2019, 08:45 AM   #16
pcarfan
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Re: Ed MILLER’S ‘The course’ or ‘Small stakes NLH’ for Vegas 1-2 NL

Now that I am back after a trip to Vegas, the donkey poker book makes a lot of sense.

The hand examples are brilliant...limping based on limp percentage makes sense (can add in player types too)...

Anyhow, now I will strongly recommend Donkey poker volume to any Vegas low limit player...I give it a 9.7/10.
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Old 03-06-2019, 10:08 PM   #17
jjb511
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Re: Ed MILLER’S ‘The course’ or ‘Small stakes NLH’ for Vegas 1-2 NL

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Originally Posted by pcarfan View Post
Did you read both? You play $1-2 live?

Thank you so much...
Yes and yes.
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Old 03-09-2019, 05:45 PM   #18
todduf98
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Re: Ed MILLER’S ‘The course’ or ‘Small stakes NLH’ for Vegas 1-2 NL

I would rank them by groups:

Group 1:

The Course - Miller
Donkey Poker Volume 2 - Selbrede
Small Stakes Poker Cash Games - Little

I would recommend reading all 3 of these books first as they all specifically apply to live low limit no-limit holdem. Here are the basic differences in the books.

The Course - setting an overall basic foundation that will enable a player to eventually move up in stakes.

Donkey Poker - Detailed strategy to play at $1-2 live no-limit, not meant to help a player move up in states.

Small Stakes Cash Games - Basic strategy with some specific examples of how to exploit common player mistakes at this level.

From there depending on which author you found more beneficial to your specific games, I would look at their other books.
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