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Ace on the river- ques Ace on the river- ques

01-20-2010 , 11:12 AM
Hello!


I have some ques about some of the 8 tourn hands discribed in the last part of the book, ill be glad to get your help:


1) Hand_3:

FLOP-
As mentioned, in case of check-raise on the flop-
first- the raise has to be all-in?
if not, and the opp re-raise, is there a reason to call or to go all in? or its depand on the raise and the re-raise amounth?

RIVER-

is there must to be a value bet?
why not to check-call?
isnt it possiable for hunssen to play the same with (A8? 10J ?)
and by betting there is only a risk he will make a move with nothing?
or that his bet-call on the turn, implies on the medium hand he has, a range of hands that well pay our value bet?


2) HAND_4


amaiznig fold, but is it still relevant today?
players wont play the same with AK? AQ?
(specially on early stage of medium tourn)



3)HAND_5


TURN-

is it really smart to bet all -in on the turn?
todays players wont pay with mergenal hands like KQ? QJ?
and what about the 88/22 option that he says "they arent likely to hold"


4) HAND_9


in general, m=9 (by harrington) dosent mean fold those mergenal hands?
Ace on the river- ques Quote
01-24-2010 , 01:59 AM
See no one else has tried to answer, figure ill give it a go.

Couple things of note out of all these hands, Barry's primary game is high end CASH games, which alters the way he would approach something that a strictly TOURNAMENT player would do differently for different reasons. Hands he has listed also play much different with different reads and against different villains.

hand3:
Quote:
As mentioned, in case of check-raise on the flop-
first- the raise has to be all-in?
if not, and the opp re-raise, is there a reason to call or to go all in? or its depand on the raise and the re-raise amounth?
First I see him planning for a check-raise, he doesn't say anywhere that he is going to make an AI raise? not sure where your getting that from. He mentions he will make a sizeable raise, like if Hansen cbets for 30k, Barry might make it 90k. And yes if Gus shoves over the top he is probably folding it on this board, but there are a lot of factors that go into it, Gus is a smart player, he knows how the texture of this flop is and how likely it could hit a range, for him to shove over a raise he has to have a monster draw/monster hand. 79s is definitely in Gus's Range.

River: the part here about betting is part value, part defensive bet. Remember this hand is against a world class player, a board like this for him to raise your bet he would most likely have a monster hand. If we check, possible he could bluff here, but I doubt it, most likely he is betting for value with any 8/T, checking a straight smaller flush, etc that we could get value for, so its better to bet the river IN THIS SPECIFIC INSTANCE.

HAND4:
This hand and thought process behind it goes with a player at the table he has a VERY good read on. Don't recommend you try to emulate this without a lot of experience behind your belt. Folding medium set in a tourney with 40 effective big blinds is typically a recipe for disaster.

HAND5: Again this goes down to a good read on villain that he is capable to fold tpgk 50BB deep. Also yes it is kind of unfortunate if we bluff and he has a set here, which isn't nearly as likely as his other holdings that we believe he called flop with. Plus another benefit here is its HIS tourney life at stake not ours. Villain specific, but under the right circumstances think that this is a smart move here.


hand9....
am I missing something only see hands 1-8 here?

Hope this helps, obviously I am not anywhere close to being able to play at Barry's thinking level, so take my advice for what its worth .
Ace on the river- ques Quote
01-24-2010 , 05:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by macvolcan
See no one else has tried to answer, figure ill give it a go.

Couple things of note out of all these hands, Barry's primary game is high end CASH games, which alters the way he would approach something that a strictly TOURNAMENT player would do differently for different reasons. Hands he has listed also play much different with different reads and against different villains.

hand3:


First I see him planning for a check-raise, he doesn't say anywhere that he is going to make an AI raise? not sure where your getting that from. He mentions he will make a sizeable raise, like if Hansen cbets for 30k, Barry might make it 90k. And yes if Gus shoves over the top he is probably folding it on this board, but there are a lot of factors that go into it, Gus is a smart player, he knows how the texture of this flop is and how likely it could hit a range, for him to shove over a raise he has to have a monster draw/monster hand. 79s is definitely in Gus's Range.

River: the part here about betting is part value, part defensive bet. Remember this hand is against a world class player, a board like this for him to raise your bet he would most likely have a monster hand. If we check, possible he could bluff here, but I doubt it, most likely he is betting for value with any 8/T, checking a straight smaller flush, etc that we could get value for, so its better to bet the river IN THIS SPECIFIC INSTANCE.

HAND4:
This hand and thought process behind it goes with a player at the table he has a VERY good read on. Don't recommend you try to emulate this without a lot of experience behind your belt. Folding medium set in a tourney with 40 effective big blinds is typically a recipe for disaster.

HAND5: Again this goes down to a good read on villain that he is capable to fold tpgk 50BB deep. Also yes it is kind of unfortunate if we bluff and he has a set here, which isn't nearly as likely as his other holdings that we believe he called flop with. Plus another benefit here is its HIS tourney life at stake not ours. Villain specific, but under the right circumstances think that this is a smart move here.


hand9....
am I missing something only see hands 1-8 here?

Hope this helps, obviously I am not anywhere close to being able to play at Barry's thinking level, so take my advice for what its worth .

ty


about hand_3:

in case that hanssen re-rasie the check-raise, in the number you have mentioned, arent barrry commited to the pot?


and hand_9= meant hand_7
Ace on the river- ques Quote
01-24-2010 , 03:26 PM
There is is 43k in the pot, if Hansen cbets for say 30k and we elect to make it 90k, Gus then elects to shove all in (effective stakes are 195k) 195+43+85=

328k with us having to call 105 which does give us the correct odds to draw to our flush, But we can still get away from the hand if we decide that we don't want to decide our tourney life with a 2-1 flip. With that said his description sounds that he is going to go all the way with this hand in which he probably will just go all in or call the All in bet. If we know before we raise that we are going all the way with this hand if he shoves its better to just put it all in to put maximum pressure on the villain.

hand7:
Still pretty much fits Harrington's guidelines, we are definitely shoving or folding here, He really didn't get into details about any kind of read on villain, what type of range would be shove or fold. If the opening range of villain is tighter definite fold, if villains range is really wide then its probably a shove, although we also must factor in the blinds calling ranges as well, what the payout structure is on the tournament and how many people are left, which kind of makes a difference here (he didn't even mention what the stack sizes are of the blinds). Lot of variables here that could make this a Push or a Fold. Shoving isn't terrible, but not sure if its the "correct" play without doing the math behind it.
Ace on the river- ques Quote
01-24-2010 , 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by macvolcan
There is is 43k in the pot, if Hansen cbets for say 30k and we elect to make it 90k, Gus then elects to shove all in (effective stakes are 195k) 195+43+85=

328k with us having to call 105 which does give us the correct odds to draw to our flush, But we can still get away from the hand if we decide that we don't want to decide our tourney life with a 2-1 flip. With that said his description sounds that he is going to go all the way with this hand in which he probably will just go all in or call the All in bet. If we know before we raise that we are going all the way with this hand if he shoves its better to just put it all in to put maximum pressure on the villain.

hand7:
Still pretty much fits Harrington's guidelines, we are definitely shoving or folding here, He really didn't get into details about any kind of read on villain, what type of range would be shove or fold. If the opening range of villain is tighter definite fold, if villains range is really wide then its probably a shove, although we also must factor in the blinds calling ranges as well, what the payout structure is on the tournament and how many people are left, which kind of makes a difference here (he didn't even mention what the stack sizes are of the blinds). Lot of variables here that could make this a Push or a Fold. Shoving isn't terrible, but not sure if its the "correct" play without doing the math behind it.
ty
Ace on the river- ques Quote

      
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