We all know there's tons and tons of people who start playing poker with a dream of becoming a professional player.

We all tell them not to do it and provide huge lists of great arguments why they shouldn't.

Yet people never listen, so they'll still try.

Then where do they fail?

I'm sure there are several major and minor obstacles that need to be overcome to make it to playing poker professionally.
Which ones can you think of? How many people would you estimate fail at each point.


A few of my thoughts as an example:

I think a lot of people try and then after a few weeks or months they realize they're not actually good at poker and poker is a lot harder than they thought.
They're losing money and give up rather quickly. (Maybe even just blaming variance or rigged games.)
I estimate at least 90% of people who start this journey fail here.

I also think a few people of the ones who actually make it past my previous obstacle then quit because they hate the loneliness of poker.
Especially for online pro's, you're just sitting alone behind your PC all day.
I think a small percentage of people who start the journey get stuck here, maybe 2%?

I'm sure I can think of a lot more, but I'd like to hear from others instead of writing a book about it

downswings are the most brutal part of poker and im sure most people are not built to endure that kind of pressure for a living

As someone who played for a living for a few years, I can tell you that one thing that can trip up some otherwise very talented players is money management. I'm not just talking about bankroll management in terms of what games they're rolled to play. I'm also talking about personal finance--questions like "how much of my roll should I be taking out for living expenses each month". The more you can minimize that, the easier it gets to deal with your downswings (and the faster you can try to move up during an upswing, if you're not already rolled for the biggest games).

Also, a lot of live "pros" burn their money playing other games at the casino.

I have bin a perfessional gambooler for 29 years now. I have seen hundreds upon hundreds come and go from the scene. There is a laundry list of reasons y 99% who try to make it fail. Most of the reasons are the same as to why most small businesses fail. People generally suck at life and without someone telling em what to do they cant figger it out on their own. Couple that with trying to "do bizness" in a casino with all of its distractions spells disaster for most.

I generally preplan my year - I know how and where I am gunna log/get my hours dudes that fail dont. In fact most pros are lazy and do not log nearly enough hours

I am a robot. It is really hard to throw me off my game. I am really good at critical self analysis and when I feel I am getting heated up I will at a minimum take a break and check in with myself. So I dont dust off chips...on the other hand

I dont make -ev wagers in casino games - I have a hatred for casinos that is very strong and I refuse to give em my hard earned $

I have worked my ass off to become a pro. I have spent countless hours studying and doing review with other gamboolin buds. To this day I still talk hands with my pals. I never once winged it. I did not "turn pro" over night, it happened organically.

When I am at the table I do not miss a thing. I see it all, and I am able to use this info very well. How many "pros" do you see watching their Ipad or texting non stop? I half ass nothing whereas those that fail half ass it all.


theres 5 off the top o my head

Yoedan pm'd asking me to elaborate on my yearly planning.

Playing professionally in LV is slightly different that playing in the hinterlands/online

In vegas there are certain times when the games are soooo good you have to crank out hours. Then there are times where the action is quite limited and that is a great time to plan a break in order to recharge.

important times: WSOP, march madness, convention season, rodeo, big weekends (new year, july 4, memorial day, labor day, superbowl, etc.

For me wosp is number one. I want to be primed and prepared to crank out hours for those 6 weeks. my goal is a minimum of 300 hours during that time. preferably 350+. So like prepping for a marathon or whatever I begin a ramp up so that I am ready to bust ass for those 6 weeks and my brain and my body is fully prepped to grind long sessions. Its great cuz the wsop hangover which is right after is when I blow town and recharge.

I then fill in the framework for the other periods and block out time for other stuff I want to do. This way I can get the number of hours that I feel I need in order to properly provide for my fam etc.

Cranking out hours in the casino does not magically happen and I think that a lack of planning is a major reason why so many fail especially in vegas where a lack of planning and lots of distractions make it really easy to not get the necessary QUALITY hours to be able to not only sustain but build a liferoll that can carry you through a difficult time like a pandemic for example.

There's just so much that goes into being a successful player that people don't realize. Work ethic is huge. Some might think poker is an easy job because you choose your own hours. That can tempt the lazy to take it on. But you can't be lazy, you gotta play hundreds of hours a month, thousands a year, at first just to make a little more than minimum wage. (If I told people they had to play 2,000 hours in their first year at live low stakes just to maybe make $35,000, I'd gamble that most people would not do it.)

Then there is the math, logic, tilt control, hard and soft skills that not everyone possesses and are hard to learn. Not to mention being comfortable losing a lot of money regularly.

The rewards for the people who have it all can start to become great, a few years in. But like most things, it doesn't happen overnight. People who want quick and easy money should find another profession.

Everyone should be listening to Uncle Squid who has been there, done that and watched 1000s of people fail. DumbosTrunk has had a long road to get to the success he has. Vernon is a highly thoughtful player. Read all of their posts, they are all excellent long time successes.

I'd emphasize one particular point. The irony of being a poker pro is that it appeals to people who want flexibility in what they do and when but requires even more discipline than someone working a job. Everything is pulling as a hard as possible to distract you. Your friends are going to party on Saturday and have a good time. If you are in LV, there are 24 hours of booze, drugs, hookers, etc. There's no immediate consequence to not working that day. In addition, you're walking through other gambling opportunities that will even more immediately scratch that gambling itch at the casino. And they have decades of experience at getting people to stop and play -EV games.

Thanks for the kind words Venice. I always look foreword to reading your posts. They are insightful and filled with the knowledge that only comes with years of experience.

Dumbos Trunk really nailed it when he said

There are so many little things that cause people to fail. And it's not just one of those things it is the compounding of adding all of those little things together that makes it impossible for so many. In Blackjack we called that the death of 1000 nicks.

Building on this, I have a salary and if I half-ass days when I'm not busy, or ring in sick, or take a holiday, I get paid. Can't say the same about poker, in fact you can bust your ass and still take a loss. That's dispiriting but I'm sure its a lot worse when you need the money...you can't pay the utilities in Sklansky bucks.

I have a dream of becoming pro, but i understand it's really hard work. I play poker and study and watch free contents every night when the kids are sleeping. I play at very low stakes and only Mtts. I understand why people give up. I have have made about 500 dollar + in the last 5 months, its not much. And as of right now i am in a 2 weeks loosing streak, and i am about to give up. It's so hard to pull your self up, and go back to the drawing board and keep on learning while you loose and loose.

If you can't handle a 2 week losing streak, what are you going to do when you end up in a 6 month losing streak? Which I guarantee will happen if you play MTTs

Is it really so? Does the PRO poker player really have a 6 month loosing streak?

pretty common in mid-stakes live cash to be on a 6 month downer. Low volume +high variance = yes

In cash games if you are a strong winnar playing full time hours. NO

as noted in post above,,,, harder road when only playing MTTs

Hi guys, I'm not a pro, I make a living from poker because I live in a poor 3rd world country but I have noticed this and I want to know what you think: there comes a time when you reach a point in where poker becomes a 24/7 job, because you can't win anymore if you don't live a good healthly life. I am happy to reach nl100 online but had to better myself in many others sides of life to get there, and still need to keep working on every part of existence to continue climbing.

In the other side, my life is so much better now. I am very thankful. Sorry about my english

making a living from poker = being a pro

That's the definition of "pro"

Hello community, I have been playing poker for many years, since 2004 to be precise, between 2013 and 2016 I played professionally live games in my region (I live in southern Brazil), and in that period I had a poker club, at the time I was about 25 years and I didn't know how to deal with the brief success I had, I believe the reason I failed during this period was the inability to have a disciplined life, alcohol and drug abuse and other things. Between 2016 and 2020 I worked for a large company and during the pandemic I started playing poker again, but online this time I started at PPPoker's micro limits, and in a short time I was playing the equivalent of PLO25, there have been several ups and downs since I came back to play, but I kept the focus and dedication and this time I moved away from drugs and things that affected me negatively, I currently play PLO200 and I attribute my momentary success to the network of players to which I joined.
Many want to be professionals but don't know where to start, or they start wrongly thinking they're doing it right, and it's not like that, to be successful in online poker you have to start at the bottom and go up the stairs little by little, and that's where many fail, they are in a hurry to play expensive games, but they don't even know if they are profitable in the micros.
I've been reading the posts here for days, I already knew and had read many things here in the past, but now, one of my decisions is to be a more active member here, because I believe that without a network of players who discuss and debate about matters of interest to people who want to be poker pros it is IMPOSSIBLE to become a successful pro, you can get one or two good results, but in the long run, impossible!

great post sir. I was insanely lucky in my professional gambling career to be surrounded with people who were smarter than I. I would not have had close to the success I have had without my network of peers.

I was lucky to make friends with a great professional here in Brazil, in 2015 I taught him the rules of razz, stud, lowball and badugi.
Time passed and when I started playing online again, this friend of mine (reg of plo2000) opened the doors of knowledge of plo 5 cards. I participated for months in a team owned by a plo5 highstakes reg.

My goal now is to gradually learn the NLH, and get to the more expensive 5-card omaha games.

At the moment I've only been earning rakeback for 1 month, I don't see game profit at the tables, I'm constantly tying.

So I'm increasing my study time and decreasing my playing time in order to get back to being profitable at the tables. I believe something is not right in my game.

And this is where many fail, in self-analysis and self-criticism, poker players tend to have egos too inflated to accept that they are doing something wrong, and like to delude themselves by blaming factors other than themselves.

Complacency, particularly during an upswing. When things are going well it can be tough to critically examine your game and improve and then the inevitable downswing hits like a ton of bricks.


People are attracted to the freedom that the poker lifestyle seems to provide but soon learn that it can be a struggle to get up and go to work just like any other job. And at least for me, if I'm going to grind a job when I dont always want to be there, then I also want the stability of proper employment, and a safety net that a bad day at the office pays the bills the same as a good day.

Theoretical bases, knowing your opponents, technique, grinding for years, rest-work balance, forehead logic, good money management both in safety and risk, keeping up with the latest developments, good enough gaming opportunities, age, health, other life, boredom, mental health problems, sacrifice, no other opportunities, level of money needed (200 to 10k dollars per month -- that's 400 to 20k per month, considering two months off, two months losing, online when multitable grinding 30 hours per week).

Seems relevant to add this Venice10 post from yesteryear into this thread

Well I can only speak for myself, but the reason I am not sitting here a pro today is because every time I have a good win, I cash out the winnings. Not for silly things but for moving house, laptop for my daughter, etc etc. When you are struggling financially in your normal life then retaining all your profits in your poker account is almost impossible. However, this was a huge mistake on my part and I wish I had managed to do it. I am up around $3,000 playing MTTs on PokerStars this past year and yet I have about $50 in my poker account right now, which really sucks.

playing with money you can't afford to lose is one way to fail to become a pro, yes