Whats the deal with PLO? - Page 2 - Beginning Poker Questions

So again, how to play hands with double suitedness and which ones specifically? And what good does it do you to make a 9 high flush if a K high flush isn't strong?

The first thing you need to know is that some double suited hands are trash and should be folded preflop, even in a limped pot. If everyone limps, I am folding Q832ds on the button. An open-ended straight draw with a non-nut flush draw is not a good hand on the flop and something you don't want to stack off with as a habit, so you are looking for hands that have the potential to hit the flop harder than that.

On the other hand, you want to look for players who habitually call raises preflop with any double suited hand.

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07-19-2018 , 02:08 PM

#28

FaddyMcFat

enthusiast

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by WereBeer

Like KcKsQcQs is a monster, AcAdJh6s is not.

AcAdJh6s is a 5:4 favorite over KcKsQcQs

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07-19-2018 , 02:19 PM

#29

mycorrhizae

centurion

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 182

Quote:

Originally Posted by FaddyMcFat

AcAdJh6s is a 5:4 favorite over KcKsQcQs

preflop heads up, sure, but PLO is a postflop game, usually w/ more than 2 players, and that equity advantage is coming from times when both players miss. Having draws to the nuts and multiple ways to make a strong hand >>> having AA with 2 dead cards.

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07-19-2018 , 03:06 PM

#30

WereBeer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10,700

Yeah I expressed myself badly and somewhat incorrectly.

If you can get it in preflop or get so you are committed OTF then naked AA has good equity. If not then plenty other hands are 'better' even though they may have less all-equity e.g. 4 card straights, especially big cards; double suited aces; double big pairs and combinations thereof.

With comparatively shallow stacks, naked AA is therefore similar to AA in NLHE in the way you play it: blast away and try to get all in. Deeper stacked the problem is that generally best case you flop top set with no redraws. Nutted redraws are important in PLO.

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07-19-2018 , 08:31 PM

#31

Ray Zee

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Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,920

the most important thing said was that on omaha it is a post flop game. alot more than regular holdem where starting stronger is much more important.

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07-19-2018 , 08:49 PM

#32

BDHarrison

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2016 Posts: 4,529

I think that KKQQds is exactly the sort of hand that inexperienced players overvalue in PLO. It's a very good hand, but it's not a monster where you should be happy to stack off with it preflop in any given hand. Depending on stack sizes and opponent ranges, there are probably even scenarios where you fold it preflop. Some players also don't recognize when the action on the flop means a hand like OESD+second-nut flush draw isn't that good of a hand. Some players can't find the exit ramp when they flop middle set.

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07-20-2018 , 02:09 PM

#33

madlex

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Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 17,440

FWIW, PLO is a postflop game if (and only if) the stack sizes are deep enough.

100BB+ stacks without double straddles definitely postflop game, 20BB Cap preflop game.

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07-20-2018 , 07:00 PM

#34

Ray Zee

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Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,920

we always had a high buyin or you get the shortstack guys that sit and wait and shove, which of course ruins the game as you cant play real poker with them sitting in the weeds.

and shouldnt allow straddles in omaha

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08-04-2018 , 10:37 AM

#35

DalTXColtsFan

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,516

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDHarrison

It's not that unusual for me to fold 20 hands in a row at live PLO. I think that preflop hand selection is vastly underrated by most players, even some winning players, at PLO.

If you are playing too loose in the game, you probably don't understand that you can fold KKxx preflop, that you can fold a suited ace preflop, that you can fold a double suited hand preflop.

For what it's worth, I recently started studying the math of PLO in more depth and I'm getting closer and closer to this. Not there yet, but certainly learning that a lot of spots I thought were a slam dunk are more like a free throw.

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08-04-2018 , 02:42 PM

#36

PokerPlayingGamble

Dispute Unresolved

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 4,669

PLO is a great game and people seem to play a lot looser in it. Just like NLHE it is one of those moment to learn life time to master type deals. A lot of core concepts are the same in NLHE and PLO, for example if you can recognize good spots to value bet thinly in NLHE you will be well suited to do the same in PLO, although usually a thin valuebet in PLO has a higher objective hand ranking than in NLHE. For example you might value bet a ten high flush on a paired board and consider this a thin valuebet in PLO, whereas in NLHE a thin valuebet would be like second pair or top pair on a board with a possible flush and full house.

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08-04-2018 , 03:42 PM

#37

BDHarrison

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2016 Posts: 4,529

I play in games where a ten-high flush on an unpaired board is a thin value bet and, sometimes, a bluff.

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08-05-2018 , 10:39 AM

#38

pucmo

adept

Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 1,187

Logically one thinks of what's a value bet in any situation based on what has happened on the hand so far and the images. There are also the GTO ranges for that. In PLO, a T-high and so flush is at the most a two street hand, so one checks/folds it at some point. PLO generally plays rather tight when it comes to river vs. a good player. Many PLO players, good and bad, are playing surprisingly passive.

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08-05-2018 , 11:34 AM

#39

sixfour

should be called sevenfour

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 74,754

Seems as if Godwin's Law applies to BQ the same as the rest of the Internet, except instead of Hitler it's GTO

Quote

08-05-2018 , 01:08 PM

#40

PokerPlayingGamble

Dispute Unresolved

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 4,669

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixfour

Seems as if Godwin's Law applies to BQ the same as the rest of the Internet, except instead of Hitler it's GTO

*slow clap*

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08-05-2018 , 03:13 PM

#41

madlex

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Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 17,440

If you find a PLO game where you can value bet a ten high flush on a paired board, you definitely deserve an award for game selection.

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08-05-2018 , 09:12 PM

#42

Ray Zee

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,920

it does come up when head up against a very good player or against a very poor player.

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