Agreed. Though there are still the true bots which just create a constant income for whoever has them running. They have no incentive to switch them off (merely to update them to keep evading detection)
See above. If you have a bot running it's no extra effort to have it running at all stakes

Look, the ones who survive in this game are going to be significantly better than novice and rec players.

Novice and rec players dont get into poker looking to study the game anymore than what they see on TV.

There are no more Gus Hansens, Sammy Farhas. Eli went broke. Along with countless others that did not adapt to todays game.

If you cant see that this game is significantly less appealing than it was during poker boom then there is no point in going back and fourth for me.

There has been a decline in wsop main event prize pool and participants since Jamie Gold won the $12 mill.

Maybe broad online legalization will allow some of these players to satellite into bigger events making them more fun.

We shall see.

I'm not disputing that the rec-filled boom is gone, nor do I think it will return. I'm just saying that even if all the plankton disappear, the game will still be plenty beatable. It's just too hard of a game for everyone to be great (robot-like) at it.

Believe me, I miss the boom too, especially because I wasted it having naively thought it would be around longer. It was fun having people with no brains bend over backwards to throw money at me, but going forward, if my money has to come from the thinking players then so be it. I like the game itself and I enjoy studying it because I'm a nerd. People less interested in that aspect might have to quit eventually. But for now, as someone else pointed out, you definitely don't have to be a nerd or a cyborg to thrive in live poker.

I disagree with the majority of your points in this thread but most of that is just "opinion".

The one quoted here is extremely misleading though. The 2019 WSOP Main Event had the largest number of participants since the year Jamie Gold won. That 2006 Main Event was the high point of a boom that was never sustainable and also was massively aided by the fact that several thousand players were able to satellite directly into the ME. Over 40% of the ME price pool was actually paid by poker sites. PokerStars alone had over 1600 players IIRC and FTP offered an extra 10 million if any of their qualifiers won the ME. That was the last year were that was possible.

The 2019 ME had roughly 35% more players than the 2007 edition. There are a lot of arguments to be made about poker being in a decline for almost 15 years now, but the one you're trying to make is actually one of the few counterpoints. WSOP participation has been pretty impressive over the last couple years.

Not sure about other regions, but in the EU live poker seems to be winning in popularity.
Well ... until 2020

Live poker is still alive and well here.

Because it feels difficult to consistently talk when you're bluffing or during in a hand. If you could show you've a good time all the time at the table, people (recs) will choose to play because you offer the experience for them.

Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk

GTO stands for Game Theory Optimal. As in, it's the optimal way to play.

Optimal in this instance doesn't mean what you think it means.

Yes, it's almost always optimal to play exploitatively, we know. The GTO zealots here who want to play a defensive strategy not to lose (except to rake) and pass up on value think otherwise

No, it's not.
It's the optimal way to play against an opponent that plays GTO.
Which is, well, no one.

IMO the GTO response to trolls is to ignore them. Her post from yesterday:

Players are a lot better nowadays, but it's also a lot easier to get good. The reference of what is considered a good player has gone up - and this is beautiful.

I am not too pessimistic about the poker's future.

Oh yeah i almost forgot. Like i said im sure this is no longer being used today cause really there is better and easier ways to cheat.

https://www.google.com/search?q=just...e-gws-wiz-serp

Read the wizard if odds pdf from justin west. That was in 2007. People always want to act like cheating is something that never happens and your crazy if you think it dose.

We now know that there was superusers on ultimate bet, absolute poker, and more than likely pitbull poker but pitbull poker was just a bunch of criminals any way and no real evidence that superuser accounts were used.

Like i said, now we got real time gto where college kids rape you in the butt.

Thank you for presenting a common thought.... there is cheating going on.

That said, I will not allow further discussion. This is the beginner area of 2+2.

You and everyone else may try the thread HERE for more information about cheating.

Learn to play games where good bots haven't been developed.

Learn to play games where it's extremely hard for a human to imitate a bot well.

"Poker" in general is a lot harder to master, and will be lucrative for much longer, than NL holdem with 100bb stacks.

My theory about bots is their based around math. Math is a solution to a problem. I dont think nl holdem could be master truly by a human or bot cause of the randomness involved.

Math dosnt solve random cause random is a problem with no solution. Maybe random is a problem and solution, who knows?

If everyone did play like a bot or program it would become boring to play or even worse to watch. Sometimes I feel like a robot at my job, my job is boring. I bet its even more boring to watch me work.

With respect, the idea that math can’t solve problems involving randomness is just garbage. In fact math is the ONLY way to determine the proper way to deal with situations involving randomness. It is true that math can’t tell you anything about a particular random event, but who cares? We don’t use math to determine whether we will win a given hand; you’re correct in that this is impossible. However math can accurately predict what will happen if a given random event is repeated a large number of times. If you flip a coin 10000 times you’ll get somewhere close to 5000 heads. Math tells us that you’ll get between 4,850 and 5,150 heads 99% of the time. If someone is willing to put up $1 against your $10 to bet that the number of heads will be outside this range, math tells you that you’ll make money by doing so. You may lose $10 in some particular trial, but you’ll more than make it back over many trials.

Similarly math can’t tell you whether the 98s caller will crack your pocket aces this time. It can and does tell you that you should (obviously) call with aces when 98s shoves, and that your aces will make profit over the long run.

More realistically, math can tell you what strategies are most profitable given a particular opponent’s strategy, assuming you know it. If you know or have a good idea what ranges an opponent folds, calls, raises, 3 bets, etc., math can point you to an effective counter strategy that will profit against that opponent. Of course your opponent can also use math to come up with a new strategy to counter yours. You can in turn adjust yours again to counter his, and so on. This process of adjusting does reach a point, though, where both of you come to a strategy that can no longer be adjusted profitability. In technical terms that’s called a Nash Equilibrium, but it’s really what is meant when people refer to game theory optimal (GTO). GTO is not the strategy guaranteed to make the most profit against any opposing strategy. It is simply the strategy that does not allow your opponents to profit by changing their strategy.

Poker is insanely complex, so true GTO strategy is not actually known, only approximations to it. It’s not known due to complexity in the game decision tree, though, not due to randomness. GTO strategies for simpler random games can certainly be determined.

Live Poker is still thriving and is still extremely beatable. Get out from behind your computer and live in the real world.

I hope nation-wide online poker never comes back.

if that happens everyone gonna be even

Casino wins by taking your rakes. In my city private game 1/2, they charge $20 per pot out of rm200++ which is 10% rake, crazy high its unbeatable in long run if no fishes

Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk