Hello,

It's been nearly 3 years break for me and I'm trying to find what are the best networks that will give me the best return on my rake as a NL cash hold'em player.

What surprises me is how some of the more popular networks how are able to maintain big traffic and pool of players when their promotions and rewards are so poor compared to others.

I know revolution network for example gives some of the best rake return, but it has the worst traffic.

I know winning poker network and party poker offer similar loyalty/vip programs that to pokerstars, so why are people still choosing to play here? When they have better options?

Finally, it would be nice to hear where others play and share their insight why those networks/skins are best for you over the rest.

You can't just look at rakeback in isolation, you need to look at rake, game quality, support, security... if UB came back and offered you 100% RB would you play there?

Biggest thing is software, pokerstars hands down has the best/cleanest software in the industry that is easy to use/not clunky/ very simple lobby etc. Second thing would be pokerstars has always had the most traffic (excluding full tilt) and people flock to where the most people are. The tournaments fill up quick / beat guarantees , cash games at almost any limit (plus multiple tables at that) etc.

Lots of the other networks / sites may have parts of the good and parts of bad whereas (well before amaya started taking a giant dump on everything) pokerstars has always been an industry standard of having everything you would look for in a site + top notch security + top notch customer service/support + good rake back system (SNE was very very appealing for a good number of people)


I think partypoker and 888 are decent but still miles below pokerstars in some aspects, but in the future we could see some competition if pokerstars continues to make changes heavily in favour of them making $$$ vs player enjoyment and game quality, while party + 888 continue to come up with new promotions and perhaps make big public changes to have VIP programs more in favour of a healthy poker economy.

Hello,

Are you familiar with any skin or network that rewards back its players with (dealt/weighted) cash rake back without first having to go through some loyalty or vip grind ladder that might take months or year?

Sounds like you should just shop for the cheapest rake. The point of most systems is that they reward actual major customers, not just anyone

Hello, I'm sure most here are also playing online poker and most skins have support, some decent traffic, but the rake return (promotions & bonuses) is what I pay most attention on since I've benefited a lot from this in my poker experience.

I'm soon going to pick one of the networks, but before I do that I always want to consult with the community where and why you choose to play.

My idea network is the one that gives around 50% (or more) in rake return in cash/tournament tickets, without having to go for months through some vip ladder that would bleed me $ only to end up stop playing there by the time I climb.

My location accepts most skin networks.

Generally, the sites offering such generous rakeback are the ones that are bankrupt.

So you might not want to make that your only criterion to determine where to play.

Yep, as I say in all of these, looking at rakeback itself in isolation is a terrible way to do things

Highest rake/bonusses sites are the one with the most regs at the tables and usually the toughest one to beat pre rb and those with the worst rewards systems are the softests in general so i would be very carefull on deciding to go to X site because they offer better rewards than Y, dont get me wrong, its awesome that you´re looking to maximize your hourly by getting into the bestpossible deal for you but it shouldnt be THE mejor factor, cheers.

Any networks these days that:

a) Have decent cash table traffic for NL hold'em.
b) Have strong promotions with 50%+ rake return in cash and low rake.
c) That do not allow any HUD programs players to use.

These three things are simply impossible to find over the years and why I have not participated for nearly three years now.

You could try Bovada or Unibet, I guess. Nobody has 50%+ rb anymore though.

There hasn't been a site to fit all 3 criteria for the last 10+ years..

A one-stop shop for poker would be ideal but I don't think there are any sites around that fit everything you're looking for.

a - most online sites will not be successful without this (if they have poor NL cash table traffic, they are probably ****/shady to begin with

b - over 50% rake back AND low rake... what sites had this even in 2014

c - only site I know that makes it "harder" to use a HuD is Bovada (that I'm aware of) but you still can get table session stats


What you're looking for has been long gone from the online poker scene, more then just 2-3 years

It's a pretty simple answer. Poker sites no longer have to compete for American action, so they can structure everything the way they want rather than at the request of the consumer.

If online poker is ever federally legalized in this country, you'll see all of that rakeback, and promotion stuff come back as well. Sites will have to adapt, or die at that point.

Keep dreaming, friend.

Yep, agreed.

In case you actually missed it, the point is that online poker has very little time left irrespective of what happens in USA#1, and is never going to get softer, or have those conditions exist simultaneously, again.

What makes you think that online poker has very little time left? It's not like one day soon it's going to completely implode.

IMO I think it will continue on for some time now, although it's true that it's a shell of what it used to be.

Rise of the machines.

If you no aspirations to play anything other low level micros and low buy in MTTs, then Stars is as fish-fested as I have ever seen it. 10Nlz in particular is wonderfully soft and has been throughout 2016/2017....and that is 24/7.

I've played up to 50nl 6 max and up there you have to pick your times. Can't speak for higher up...and I doubt I ever will.

On the much hyped bot thing, there is/was a good thread written by a "alleged" botter somewhere on 2+2 (can provide a link, sorry, someone else might) which is interesting read - and I'll leave it at that, except to say that bots where I play (sites + stakes + playing pool)....not an issue and unlikely ever to become one.

That doesn't mean I think online poker has a future as a profession, but I think government intervention is a big threat, as well as the improvement and multitude of regs, whether of not they are aided by software tools of any kind.

tl/dr

Don't know whether online poker is a viable long term profession, but for a rec like me its as healthy and fun as it always is and if you pick the right level for your ability, no reason you can't materialize your cash EV edge and maybe bink a biggy along the way.

Mostly if computers get close to a solution, then bot makers can devote themselves to counter detection methods and human regs can't really win at any stakes it's efficient to run human bots at.

I don't think I've ever heard of a site that ever fit all three criterion, but I only started playing online about 11.5 years ago (and I guess there could have been one I didn't know about or didn't pay attention to for some reason).

TDA captured my point here, which I think you missed. Even if the USA had nationwide ipoker or rejoined the int'l pool, you wouldn't see these sorts of deals being offered to players. That said, it would be good for the games at least for a year or two.

I've stopped playing online poker for 3+ years now until I find a network/skin/site that offers 50%+ rake return in cash, where HUD programs are not allowed and with decent traffic for NL hold'em. Of course, being able to receive my withdrawals within two business weeks is a must a well.

I live in Canada but yea if you know any skins/networks that are closest to this I would be gladly participate there.