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Old 09-20-2018, 01:19 PM   #1
FlatRaise1
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What are the focus stats for this player (where are the main leaks)?

I'd love to get an insight/discussion from experienced and winning players on the numbers below. I know these can be looked up on the internet from numerous articles, but I don't think you can beat a bit of two way conversation.

I really appreciate anyone who takes the time to look these over to help me identify where the biggest leaks are/where the most imporvments could be made?

50,000 hand sample all played at 2NL Zoom:

VPIP = 17.83
PFR = 11.60
3Bet PF = 2.35
Call PF 3Bet = 15.81
3Bet Steal = 1.77
Fold To Steal = 82.99
CBet F = 49.82
Total AF = 3.50


BTN = 20.38 VPIP 13.45 PFR
CO = 19.82 VPIP 14.03 PFR
MP = 18.58 VPIP 16.93 PFR
EP = 13.54 VPIP 13.54 PFR
BB = 15.39 VPIP 1.79 PFR
SB = 18.85 VPIP 8.04 PFR

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Old 09-20-2018, 01:26 PM   #2
ArtyMcFly
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Re: What are the focus stats for this player (where are the main leaks)?

Playing 17/12/2 in a 6-max game is just too nitty. If this player was on my tables, I'm never giving him much action. His 3-bets and his c-bets are almost never bluffs.
I would steal his blinds a lot when he's in the BB, and be very cautious post-flop if he actually calls in the BB.
For all I know, this player might just about beat the game as a fit-or-fold nit at 2NLz, but he has no hope of beating any higher stakes when he's so unbalanced in favour of value when he bets or raises.
One particular oddity is the BTN PFR is lower than the PFR for CO and MP. You know the BTN is the best position to be in, right? Based on your current stats, you could start pressing the RAISE button on the BTN a lot more, and I'd give you a lot more credit than someone playing a more typical 22/17 overall. Open-raise and 3-bet more buttons and you should be able to increase your winrate as well as get your stats to look less nitty overall.

Oh, and stop calling in the SB. Switch to a '3-bet or fold' strategy ASAP. (It's OK to sometimes call there with hands like 99-66, but mostly you should be raising or folding in the SB. It's the worst position generally, and the disadvantage is magnified if your initial action is "call").

Last edited by ArtyMcFly; 09-20-2018 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 09-20-2018, 01:37 PM   #3
FlatRaise1
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Re: What are the focus stats for this player (where are the main leaks)?

Wow, superb summery. I too was surprised by the PFR for MP & CO in comparison to the Button.

Out of curiosity, what would you consider optimal to beat the miscros up to say 25NL?

I guess the takeaway message is to open up the range and play more hands, especially on the button and perhaps tighten up the PFR in EP & MP?

would you consider the ratio of 18/12/2 to be ok? I mean, do they relate to each other correctly and is just a case of increasing them?
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Old 09-20-2018, 01:54 PM   #4
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Re: What are the focus stats for this player (where are the main leaks)?

General stats tend to be between 20-25% VPIP and about 85% of that number as PFR. 2% 3bet makes it pretty much impossible to beat any thinking player at 25NL.

2.4% means literally only TT+ and AKs.
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Old 09-20-2018, 02:21 PM   #5
FlatRaise1
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Re: What are the focus stats for this player (where are the main leaks)?

Many thanks guys. I've been contemplating this for the past hour and the immediate adjustments I'm going to make are:

1. Play a few more hands on the button, and really consider raising to isolate/get initiative more often.

2. Play LESS hands in MP+EP and consider if a raise is actually +EV in the long run when deciding to whether or not make one.

3. 3Bet more in position!!

4. Look to increase from 18/12 to somewhere around 22/18ish over a decent sample

5. Consider less action in the SB as this looks like a leak?

Would you agree with these? Is there anything much more pressing that I should be prioritising?
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Old 09-20-2018, 02:23 PM   #6
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Re: What are the focus stats for this player (where are the main leaks)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlatRaise1 View Post

5. Consider less action in the SB as this looks like a leak?
Agree with Arty on SB play. I would make this 1st priority.
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Old 09-20-2018, 02:43 PM   #7
FlatRaise1
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Re: What are the focus stats for this player (where are the main leaks)?

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Originally Posted by King Spew View Post
Agree with Arty on SB play. I would make this 1st priority.
Wow, just looked back through my stats in the SB and it's INCREDIBLE how the majority of the money lost has come from a 'call' line

Will nip this in the bud immediately.
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Old 09-20-2018, 05:01 PM   #8
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Re: What are the focus stats for this player (where are the main leaks)?

Calling in the SB is one of the most common (and expensive) leaks. Almost everyone loses in that position because half a blind is taken from you whether you have a playable hand or not, but that doesn't mean you should play a lot of hands there. You should still be fairly tight, especially when facing an EP/MP open. Being OOP makes it very hard to realize your equity, and it's especially hard to win if you press "CALL" pre-flop. If you 3-bet, you'll often win immediately, and then instead of losing 0.5bb, you can pick up 4.5bb (if the open was 3x). Winning some of those 4.5bb pots cancels out a bunch of the pots where you were dealt junk and lost 0.5bb.

You can immediately fix that leak by just setting a rule like "I will NEVER call here except occasionally with 99-66. With any other hand I want to play I will 3-bet, and if I don't want to 3-bet, I will just fold".

If the action is folded to you in the SB (or indeed the BTN), you should be opening more pots than I expect you currently are. If the roles were reversed and you were in the BB, anyone with a HUD would raise almost any two, because you're giving up your BB over 80% of the time, so people could win 1bb from your stack quite easily. Your opponents are probably folding to steals about 70% of the time, so you should be stealing their blinds very frequently indeed.

It will take you a while to get your stats up to more reasonable numbers (like many players I was a nit when I started playing real money poker, and it felt quite weird adding hands like K7s or 65s to my range), but eventually you want to get your numbers up to at least 20/15/5 (but preferably something more like 22/18/7 if you want to crush the nits). It's pretty much impossible to beat even the lowest zoom games unless you open at least 38% of buttons and have some 3-bets bluffs in your BTN, SB and BB ranges.

Last edited by ArtyMcFly; 09-20-2018 at 05:10 PM.
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Old 09-20-2018, 06:15 PM   #9
FlatRaise1
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Re: What are the focus stats for this player (where are the main leaks)?

Superb reply Arty. Really appreciate you taking the time and effort.

Just got off a 3k hand session trying to implement the bits discussed above, and happy to say I booked a win!

Funnily enough, I still managed to play at 18/12 but my 3BetPF was up to 4.21 which I was happy to see. Still lost way more than should have in the SB (18% VPIP still which is awful I know!).

Was also nice to notice a profit in all positions other than the blinds and VPIP increasing steadily from 13% in EP to 22% on Button with PFR falling around 80%-90% of VPIP in each position. (improvements here?).

I think SB play was the only thing drastically dragging me down in that session to book a win higher than 2bb/100, so that's without a doubt number one focus and requires further study.

How high do you believe VPIP should be on the Button? you mention 38% but is that opening when there's no action before me or including calls and 3Bets?
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Old 09-20-2018, 08:00 PM   #10
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Re: What are the focus stats for this player (where are the main leaks)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlatRaise1 View Post
Funnily enough, I still managed to play at 18/12 but my 3BetPF was up to 4.21 which I was happy to see.

How high do you believe VPIP should be on the Button?
First part is way too nitty. You might not lose a lot playing that way, but you also won't win a lot either.

You should be opening ~40% on the button as a default, but can play much looser if the blinds are nits like you.
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Old 09-20-2018, 08:17 PM   #11
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Re: What are the focus stats for this player (where are the main leaks)?

This subject is positionally unaware and tight. As a result the subject misses both preflop and postflop with strong hands that should be in any players range, particularly in the later positions, as well as strong draws that add to the missed preflop ev.

The cure is to memorize standard preflop ranges and to learn of basic betsize (1/3 pot to pot depending on opponent type and flop/turn textures, but more frequently exceeding pot on the river) that you should get used to dealing with.
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Old 09-21-2018, 07:41 AM   #12
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Re: What are the focus stats for this player (where are the main leaks)?

When looking at vpip by position HJ-BTN it's better to look at the RFI (raise first in) stats for those positions. Vpip will be lower than your actual opening range because of the times there's action before you.
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:45 AM   #13
ArtyMcFly
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Re: What are the focus stats for this player (where are the main leaks)?

As The Imp said, the RFI numbers (labelled UO PFR% in HEM) reveal how often you're opening in each position, and it gives a pretty good idea of what your opening ranges look like.
Here are some VPIP/PFR and RFI numbers from one of my databases:



I'm not going to claim those numbers are perfect/optimal, but they are more in line with what works well for micro zoom. Overall, the VPIP/PFR was 21/15.

Note that the BTN UO PFR (aka RFI) was 39% (a lot of regs will actually steal even wider than that, because there are nits like OP that fold to steals too often), but the VPIP there is only 25%. I rarely flat on the button, or any position except the BB, where the gap between VPIP and PFR is huge.

It's noteworthy that the VPIP is 25% in BTN, SB and BB, because those positions are the ones that see the most action, either as steals or defends vs steals. (It's a curious truism that I played slightly more hands in the BB than any other spot, and I usually did it as a call. At 2NL, I should probably have played a little bit tighter in the BB, but I'm a station that likes seeing flops).
If I run the filter 'VPIP=true', I actually won at 57bb/100 in the BB, which is a clear indicator that calling with a wide range there can be profitable. With VPIP=true for the SB (where I'm mosty raising or 3-betting, not calling, although I experiemented with open-limping for a while), the winrate was over 100bb/100.
Only playing 15% of hands in the BB (as in OP's stats) is just giving away too many blinds.
Playing the last 3 positions pre-flop correctly (BTN, SB and BB) is crucial to establishing a winrate. At a fundamental level, the game is all about stealing and restealing blinds, and defending against those steals and resteals. You can't beat the game by being a nit and letting everyone else steal the blinds. You should be stealing them yourself (in BTN and SB) and fighting back if one of those positions opens the pot.
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Old 09-21-2018, 05:37 PM   #14
FlatRaise1
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Re: What are the focus stats for this player (where are the main leaks)?

I'm honestly blown away by how detailed these responses are. Thank you so much guys!

I've been think about many of the points above non stop since this thread started and I feel like this is becoming a bit of a light bulb moment for me.

Just got off another 1,500 hand session. And although a small sample, I've noticed a better VPIP/PFR ratio in each position. (although overall still too low at 15/12 but could be down to 1,500 hands only).

This small session however booked a 22BB/100 win, and is showing me first hand how initiative and position mixed with smart aggression are the key to playing winning poker.

As mentioned, I know an overall of 15/12 is overall quite low, but I'm not paying too much attention to that over 1,500 hands. I'm more focused on the ratio of VPIP/PFR which I belive is a drastic improvement over my previous stats?

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Old 09-21-2018, 08:18 PM   #15
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Re: What are the focus stats for this player (where are the main leaks)?

Could be due to sample but why is your highest VPIP in the SB?
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Old 09-21-2018, 11:55 PM   #16
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Re: What are the focus stats for this player (where are the main leaks)?

18/12 - 15/12 is definitely an improvement, you've cut out most of the loose coldcalls. Next step is to open up your opening ranges CO/BTN, what hands are you currently opening on the button when folded to you?

It's OK to gradually add hands, an easy to remember button opening range could be all pairs, all Ax, all Broadways, all suited Kx, all suited Qx, suited connectors 65s+, suited one gappers 75s+. That's 35% which is a decent starting point.

You might have poor results at first as you get used to having weaker hands on the flop, don't get discouraged. Opening the button will be your most profitable position long-term.
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Old 09-22-2018, 11:47 AM   #17
ArtyMcFly
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Re: What are the focus stats for this player (where are the main leaks)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvis View Post
Could be due to sample but why is your highest VPIP in the SB?
It's probably just a sample-size thing, but it's amazing how often it folds to the SB in zoom games today. The games are just full of nits.

As I showed in my screengrab, I've been VPIP-ing 25% in BTN, SB and BB. It's probably more profitable to have it something like 30, 25, 24 at 2NLz/5NLz.
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Old 09-23-2018, 07:48 AM   #18
FlatRaise1
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Re: What are the focus stats for this player (where are the main leaks)?

OK, just finished up another 2kish hand session and booked a small win (although was below the yellow line by quite a way which was frustrating!)

Again, I'm really happy to see my VPIP & PFR getting better every time I play since reaching out on this forum. I can now see a nice steady increase from EP through to the Button with PFR falling nicely too! (i think? - opinions?)

Clearly still got major issues playing the SB. I just can't seem to get it right at the moment. Still a big focus for me.

Overall I ran at 17/13/8. Any thoughts on these guys?

Many thanks as always!

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